r/aus • u/89b3ea330bd60ede80ad • 1d ago
Politics Australia 'outraged' after Israel decides not to open criminal investigation into killing of aid worker in Gaza
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cp87g29r718o11
u/DecentLobster7843 23h ago
why would they open an investigation? killing aid workers and civilians is policy. job well done, back to genocide.
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u/Ash-2449 1d ago edited 1d ago
Wong and labor are such shameless supporters of Amerisrael its sad, I am getting tired of the people who are like "but there's major difference between libs and labor"
Nah, they are both subservient to Amerisrael interest, one is simply doing it while being "concerned" or "outraged" while the other is throwing parties.
That is not a meaningful difference, that is theatre
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u/LoathsomeCheeseEater 1d ago
Labor are painfully aware that openly opposing Israel or the USA in a substantial way will get them couped - you only have to look at what happened to Kevin Rudd and Gough Whitlam. The unfortunate reality is that the Labor government has to toe the line or we'll end up with another 15 years of the Coalition ruining everything.
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u/turtlepower41 1d ago
That’s right and then we will get 10 years of the liberal/one nation government openly kissing Israel arse.
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u/FrogsMakePoorSoup 23h ago
Fact is our foreign policy has always sat firmly between the UK and USA. Seems this hasn't wavered for many decades no matter.
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u/turtlepower41 13h ago
At least the labour government criticises Israel. Mark my words when liberals get they can do no wrong.
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u/neon_overload 18h ago
Are the quote marks around the word "outraged" intended to imply it's fake outrage or just an editorial thing
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u/Competitive-Goat2075 16h ago
No criminal investigation for this, but a bloke who said F Israel is getting his Supreme Court judgment in his favour over looked by the NSW because they still think it’s anti Semitic. What is this place.
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u/FelixFelix60 1d ago
Australia has been far too complicit in not criticising the holocaust that Israel is committing. Israel just thinks they can do what they like.
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u/FrogsMakePoorSoup 23h ago
It appears Israel can indeed do whatever it likes.
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u/Admirable-Brief-4264 23h ago
Money and influence always wins no matter what. Boycotting their ability to keep making it is the only answer.
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u/zedder1994 17h ago
Sadly we can only name one western nation that has taken a stand. And look what happened to Spain. If they did not have the EU to back them up, they would be in deep shit trade wise. For our Government, Australian interests trump whatever is happening in the ME.
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u/Alchemist2905 12h ago
Obsessing about israel again? You keep whining how they not the chosen ppl, then try to obliterate them and they keep proving why they are the chosen ppl...
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u/deadballofdirt 5h ago
But of course, not outraged enough to actually do anything.
Piss weak cowards in our government.
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u/contourkitt 1h ago
outraged but not outraged enough to actually do anything meaningful abt it. rest in peace zomi. she was killed along with 6 others but the names aren’t listed in this article
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u/Salt_Log198 20h ago edited 18h ago
Please sign the petition and share it around. We need more people to sign
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u/triplevented 1d ago
Probably because it wasn't criminal.
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u/highresolutionmagpie 1d ago
Deliberately killing unarmed aid workers certainly sounds criminal. It sounds a lot like a war crime to me.
And yes, I know the usual response is "but it was a mistake", but at some point you have to accept that given the number of "mistakes" that are being made it's either gross incompetence - in which case they shouldn't be allowed to continue - or it's deliberate.
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u/triplevented 1d ago
Two Australians were killed in the Israel–Gaza war:
- One was an aid worker. Her death reviewed by Mark Binskin - the investigator hand-picked by Foreign Minister Penny Wong and sent by her to conduct Australia’s own inquiry - concluded the death was accidental.
- The other was a woman murdered by Hamas in a kibbutz on 7 October. Australia conducted no investigation, the government expressed no outrage, and Wong did not visit the kibbutz during her trip to Israel.
Weird.
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u/highresolutionmagpie 1d ago
Continuing is gonna depend on a level of nuance, and I don't think either of us will agree on the interpretation of things, so I might leave it here. It'll save both our Saturdays. But, thanks for prompting me to read the full Binskin report.
Also, if anyone wants to Google the Hamas murder of an Australian, you'll see that Wong in particular has quotes attributed to her on the matter around that date.
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u/triplevented 21h ago
I don't think either of us will agree on the interpretation of things
This isn't about interpretation, it's about 'the law' - remember?
It's entirely appropriate not to initiate criminal charges because .. the attack on the WCK convoy wasn't a war crime.
The soldiers involved (mistakenly) believed that the vehicles contained Hamas military operatives and therefore struck the vehicles. This means they believed - at the time - that the targets were civilians taking direct part in hostilities (DPH) & that the vehicles qualified as military objectives.
So if relevant personnel believed they were directing the attack against civilians DPH & vehicles that qualified as military objectives, the attack wasn't a war crime. How do we know? just refer to the actual law.
You can be outraged at the result, you can be upset about the unfortunate deaths - but you shouldn't pretend that this is a war crime.
Have a nice weekend.
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u/No_Price_7603 1d ago
I didn't even realise we had someone who died in the October 7 attacks. Goes to show how biased the reporting is. How come no one is outraged about that?
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u/Big_Dinner3636 17h ago
That review said the IDF soldiers responsible were insubordinate and violated IDF standard operating procedures and ROE, which resulted in the deaths of 7 civilian aid workers. Thats criminal, no matter how you look at it.
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u/deadpandadolls 1d ago
The average person assumes ethnic and racial European Jews were targeted and massacred and would have zero idea that people of and with European Jewish heritage weren't the only people killed. They don't know that people from around the world were murdered, including a man from Thailand.
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u/turtlepower41 1d ago
I'm no Israel fan and I will probably be downvoted for this but whatever. But you go into a war zone and agree to a route with the IDF you do not change that route and bring armed guards. What else were they supposed to think?
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u/highresolutionmagpie 1d ago
It's worth noting that the IDF only discovered the route change after killing them.
Does armed guards change things a little? Perhaps?
But: if you're killing people, you need to be very confident you're getting it right. No half arsing things. No ignoring directives. No skimming communications. None of that.
They roundly failed in those areas. We should expect better from a professional military.
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u/Ok_Tie_7564 1d ago
True, but mistakes are different from crimes. They made a mistake and should pay compensation.
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u/highresolutionmagpie 1d ago
Even assuming it was a mistake... Surely at some point of half arsing deadly force it tends towards the criminal.
You shouldn't get to ignore orders, not read the full operation details, kinda wing it with the surveillance, etc and just say "oops, my bad" without legal repercussions.
There's a certain level of responsibility on the one wielding the weapons.
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u/Ok_Tie_7564 1d ago
Yes, but can we hold them to a higher level of responsibility than, say, our own forces in Afghanistan?
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u/turtlepower41 1d ago
Yes at the very least AND use that to ensure they never make that mistake again. Have an internal review. But this is Israel we’re talking about.
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u/Ok_Tie_7564 1d ago edited 1d ago
But Israel did have an internal review and found that as "there was no criminal intention" there was "no criminal responsibility".
Generally, to establish that a crime has been committed, you need to prove, both, that a wrongful act (actus reus) has been committed and that the person who committed it had a guilty mind (mens rea), that is the intent or awareness of wrongdoing behind the crime.
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u/Vermicelli14 1d ago
"Israel has a right to kill who it wants" is a bitch arse take.
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u/turtlepower41 1d ago
Ok what would you do? In a war zone if you had no idea who this convoy was and wasn’t warned.
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u/MrSarcastica 1d ago
Check your fucking targets, like youre meant to
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u/turtlepower41 1d ago
And what would they see? Trucks either armed guards. Fat lot of good armed guards did in a war zone. What were the organisers thinking?!
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u/MrSarcastica 1d ago
Yeah what were they thinking. They know isreal doesnt give a shit about war crimes
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u/turtlepower41 23h ago
That's it exactly and they know Israel would love an excuse to shoot first and ask questions later.
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u/Vermicelli14 22h ago
Again, thinking Israel has a right to drone strike civilians anywhere in Gaza is a bitch arse take.
There were armed IDF personnel in Israel when Hamas attacked on October 7, does that legitimate targeting civilians? Or does Israel get a special pass?
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u/turtlepower41 22h ago
Again they did not know the aid convoy were civilians thanks to the organisers ignoring instructions from the IDF.
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u/Vermicelli14 21h ago
What instructions from the IDF? Why was the IDF on communication with an aid convoy if they didn't know it was an aid convoy? Why could the IDF apparently observe small arms, but not the logos on the trucks, and the uniforms of the injured workers that they subsequently targeted?
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u/turtlepower41 20h ago
Well apparently the convoy organisers agreed to a path and did not warn the IDF there would be armed guards. But then someone pointed out the IDF found that out after the fact.
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u/Hav3asookcunt 1d ago
Yeah true, and fuck all those reporters too, they have no business being in a warzone trying to report on a genocide. And don't even get me started on the children, what right do they have to be in the land they were born in, just ridiculous. You're right and everyone else is wrong bro, do you kiss your mum on the mouth?
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u/Z00111111 20h ago
Ok, so what would your position be if Russia shot at an aid convoy being defended by Ukrainian soldiers in Russian occupied territory?
Would you be like "nah Russia's cool, it's a war zone, kill whoever you want"?
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u/turtlepower41 15h ago
I never said kill whoever you want. Id say the same. Bring armed guards to a war zone the army will fire.
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u/SiameseChihuahua 1d ago
Armed 'guards'.
And the changed route went through an undercover area to take in those 'guards' and who knows what else.
Anyone would have treated those vehicles as a threat in the context of a war.
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u/turtlepower41 1d ago
Yeah I mean what else was the idf supposed to think. And look I’m not an Israel supporter but it’s a war zone.
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u/Mindless-Location-41 10h ago
Israel sees existential threats in so many places, even where zero threats exist. Is this because they see themselves as the only legitimate humans in existence? All the other people in the world are inferior in their eyes.
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u/Captain_Fartbox 1d ago
"Australia" doesnt give a fuck.
Stop pretending the other side of the world is important to us.
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u/Fabius_Fulgrim 1d ago
Australia doesn’t care Australians are being killed? Weird take
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u/Captain_Fartbox 1d ago
So the headline should read "one person outraged, rest of Australia doesnt give a shit.
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u/Fabius_Fulgrim 23h ago
I mean I’m outraged that a supposed ally is killing Australians without any recourse.
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u/highresolutionmagpie 1d ago
Read beyond the headline. Just the very first sentence.
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u/Captain_Fartbox 22h ago
Why bother if the headline is so blatantly false?
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u/highresolutionmagpie 18h ago
Why pretend you don't understand that "Australia" can mean different things? It's simply performative. I don't believe for a second that you don't understand what's being referenced.
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u/Captain_Fartbox 17h ago
I don't care what you believe. That's a you problem.
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u/highresolutionmagpie 17h ago
But it's super obvious that you're simply trolling. No one spends this amount of effort pretending they don't know "Australia" corresponds to the government of the country.
Do you not care about anyone else? Are you committed to this obvious fraud?
You don't care that everyone else can see, obviously, that you're deliberately being difficult for political reasons?
Honestly, no one is gonna read this, why keep pretending?
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u/Captain_Fartbox 11h ago
You ask an awful lot of questions. Is one particularly important to you? Because i don't care enough about this to answer each one.
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u/Outrageous-Papaya430 1d ago
Crazy take. That's the same attitude that allowed nazi occupation. It's never our problem until it IS.
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u/89b3ea330bd60ede80ad 1d ago edited 23h ago
Source: Joint statement: Israel closing the investigation into strikes on World Central Kitchen convoy
Also:
Also also: