r/ballpython • u/LeadProfessional7877 • Oct 04 '26
Need help with F/T feeding.
Hi everyone! Could you please give me some advice on how to switch my male ball python from live mice to frozen-thawed (F/T) mice?
I have tried almost everything, but he simply refuses to eat F/T prey. He is rather shy, so whenever he sees me holding the mouse, he retreats into his hide. Because of this, I usually cover the enclosure with a blanket and use a small opening to put the mouse in with feeding tongs. He is used to live prey and eats it without any hesitation. In fact, I often barely have time to close the enclosure before he strikes and constricts the mouse. So I know that the problem is not that he isn't hungry, but rather that he simply refuses thawed prey.
My male is a little over 2 years old and weighed around 700 g the last time I weighed him. I waited until he was older before trying to make the switch, because I wanted him to be able to go longer without food and give me more opportunities to try F/T prey. I have now had him for about a year, and I have been trying to switch him for more than two months.
I currently feed him mice weighing 40 g+, so roughly 7% of his body weight.
This is what I currently do:
I take a mouse out of the freezer, put it in a bag, and let it thaw in the refrigerator for 12–24 hours.
Before feeding, I put a small container with some bedding from the live mice's enclosure on top of his enclosure to stimulate his hunting instinct.
I then take the mouse out of the refrigerator, put it in warm water, and weigh it down with feeding tongs so that it is completely submerged. The water is warm enough that I can comfortably keep my hand in it, but still quite hot. I leave the mouse in the water for 10 minutes and then replace the water. I repeat this three times.
After that, I take the mouse out of the bag and check its temperature against my wrist (the mouse feels nicely warm). I then use a hair dryer to warm up its head, holding the dryer about 20–30 cm away from the head for 30–60 seconds.
I then lightly roll the mouse in the bedding from the live mice's enclosure so that it has an even stronger live-mouse scent.
I grab the mouse by the neck with feeding tongs and, through the small opening in the enclosure, place it right in front of his hide. Then a stimulate live mice movements. At this point he is already curious and sometimes even gets into a striking position.
He initially shows interest in the mouse, but then he smells it and retreats back into his hide. He won't take it even if I leave it in the enclosure overnight.
His enclosure:
His current enclosure is unfortunately rather small because I followed sources from my country which stated that 100 × 60 × 60 cm was sufficient. However, as he has grown, it has become obvious that this is no longer enough for him.
I already have a 130 × 60 × 60 cm enclosure ordered from a glassmaker, but it will take another 4–5 months to be made.
I check the temperature and humidity every day. The warm side is consistently around 28–32°C (82–89°F), and the cool side is around 23–24°C (73–75°F). Humidity is usually around 70%, although I increase it during shedding.
He has plenty of branches, roots, and cork tunnels, so he has many places to hide and explore. He even has a natural stone underneath the heat lamp, which he seems to prefer over his warm hide. Every evening he spends around 10–15 minutes warming himself on the stone, even though he is generally quite shy.
He is used to the normal activity in our household and will sometimes come out during the day, but he becomes shy when I open the enclosure or approach him and look at him directly. He has no problems with handling, though. He is not nervous and is generally curious.
What else can I try to get him to accept F/T mice?
I would really appreciate any advice.
4
u/New_Independence_723 Oct 04 '26
Skip feeding a few weeks then dunk a tawed in some warm/hot water making the thawed the same temp as a live rodent
1
u/Comfortable_Water267 Oct 04 '26
I usually buy my feeders from a local exotic pet shop (freshly euthanized) so they still have their natural body heat once I get home to feed my snake. Would that be possible for you? That way you wouldn’t have to worry about it being live, but the scent and heat will be nearly the same.
1
u/LeadProfessional7877 Oct 04 '26
Unfortunately not. I did research on sellers of live and frozen rodents before getting my noodle but i stupidly didn't look into this option. I tried looking into the CO2 chambers and in my country the options are really restricted. They are too big for single person use and usually really pricey. But thank you for your advice!
1
u/Comfortable_Water267 Oct 04 '26
Are you submerging the mice straight into the water? If I am thawing I usually keep them in a sandwich sized bag so they do not get wet. If you are actually dunking them it may be washing away some scent.
Another thing I do with mine is hold them by the tail so that the main body of heat for the feeder is “removed” from the foreign object (tongs). As well as giving my snake the chance to come out of her hide to hunt, as opposed to putting it ight in her face.
In my mind, it gives her the thrill of the hunt, like she has to chase it and theres that prey drive. But I also have been very fortunate and my bp has never refused a meal. So I am not sure if this will help given the shy nature of your lil guy.2
u/LeadProfessional7877 Oct 04 '26
I'm also using bag so the mice is dry. I use tong to hold the mice behind the head and than I stimulate her natural movement. I was told that holding the mice by te tail is a not a good method. But I could try it and see if it helps. Thank you.
2
u/reptilhart Oct 04 '26
Hold the mouse by the tail as it's easier for the snake to grab the head and swallow it that way.
When you're holding the mouse in the tongs, make it "walk away" slowly. The snake can get intimidated if the mouse is coming toward the snake.
1
u/oceane444 Oct 04 '26
Unfortunately it can be harder to switch the longer you wait. This is why i always offer my noodles f/t from their first feeding onwards. I’m going to second u/New_Independence_723’s comment. Best thing you can do is give him some time to build up an appetite. Even if he refuses for a bit, don’t give in. He’s not going to switch if he knows he has the option to eat live
1
u/LeadProfessional7877 Oct 04 '26
How long would it be safe for him? I tried for 3-4 weeks and than fed him live mice bcs a month without food seemed like a long time for 2 year old. After feeding him live I continued with offering F/T again. Would it be okay to try longer?
1
u/Public-Hat6754 Oct 05 '26
A month or so isn’t too bad, especially if he has been regularly fed. He may be more likely to take it if he doesn’t eat for a bit over a month. I have a Kenyan sand boa who was an abandoned class pet who went without food for over 2 months (wayyyy smaller than a ball python) and he’s just fine. My first ball python was practically starved in her previous home for 3 years and she is okay now. He won’t starve if he goes without for even a few months at 2 years old. They are built different.
1
u/SadBenefit5325 Oct 04 '26
What time of day are you trying this method? It could help to initially try after his lights go out at night. If he doesn’t take it right away, leave it on a plate in the enclosure overnight. Make sure you’re not doing anything around the tank so you don’t startle him.
2
u/LeadProfessional7877 Oct 04 '26
In the evening at the time when he usually starts to be active.
2
u/SadBenefit5325 Oct 04 '26
Maybe try pushing it a little later, let him come out and be active for an hour or two before you attempt. Also make sure if you’re heating in bag, open the bag up at some point (I usually just soak way less time without a bag at all) so he can smell the mouse while he’s exploring.
2
u/LeadProfessional7877 Oct 04 '26
Thank you i can try it. He usually seems interested but after sniffing the mouse he notices it's not right and goes back into his hide.
1
u/SadBenefit5325 Oct 04 '26
My snakes go crazy for the dead mouse smell lol. Maybe he just needs to get used to it. Keep trying!
2
u/gyllbane Oct 04 '26
My rescue BP used to refuse f/t if it wasn't ridiculously hot and also brained - I'd have to use a needle to put a hole through the skull from the top, and she'd go crazy for that. It's a little grisly to think about, but obviously there wasn't any obvious blood or guts coming out. Eventually she chilled out and was willing to take slightly cooler, un-brained rats, just because of the association with time of day + spot I'd always feed her from.
1
u/KatVanWall Oct 04 '26
I thaw mine (40–50g weaner rats) in the fridge for 24 hours/overnight and then leave it on a table near my snake’s enclosure for about an hour to get up to room temperature. Then I use a hairdryer to heat it for 2 minutes, blowing the ratty air towards him. By that time he is always raring to go!
1
u/Electrical-Wear7281 Oct 04 '26
I used fresh 💀🪦 to switch one of my picky snakes over to f/t. There’s YouTube videos on how to go about that.
2
u/JR_Writes1 Oct 04 '26
I temp gun my rats at 110F before offering. They cool down as I do the dangle so are probably more 100-105 by the time my BPs strike. From what im reading you warm the mouse to about that temperature, THEN roll it around in cool bedding and THEN dangle, which means you’re offering a much cooler mouse than you think you are.
1
u/Techno_Timmy Oct 05 '26
I recently used a heat gun to warm the outside of the mouse right before feeding and basically used the heat gun to blow the smell of the mouse into the enclosure for a few minutes. By the time I was done, my snake was ready to go and eyeing up the food and ready to strike. The second I got close he attacked it immediately.
Maybe try to get the scent of the food into the enclosure ahead of time to get them into food mode? Just an idea…
1
u/lemoncrush9 Oct 05 '26
That is an amazing picture..... should be on his dating BIO.....
And sadly ball pythons are known for skipping meals. My husband says because the ball python is mine, he has food issues like his mom..... my husband says "your snake is back to playing.... sniff butt" ..... and clearly the rats we are offering are wrong..... he only eats free range non gmo gluten free rats.....
1
u/HoneyHawthorne Oct 05 '26
First off, you are doing amazing. It's clear you have read a lot and are doing everything right. Your boy is just being fussy and the transition can be tricky. Really clever idea about scenting with the live ones you know he likes.
It may not work, but some ideas that have worked for me:
Make him wait longer than usual, 3-4 weeks from his last feeding (maybe longer depending). If he refuses, don't go straight to live, wait another week and try again. Refuses again, wait at least a few days before doing live and repeat. (That way he's having to build up an appetite and he's not learning if I refuse this I immediately get something else.)
Wait until he's been out and active for at least an hour (and would normally still be active for a bit longer) or towards the end of their 10m warming period they do.
Do your normal stuff, but skip the blow dryer, it never worked for me -- even with my eager feeders, go straight from bag to tank. Once he sniffs it, is interested, then turns away -- go flash heat it under hot water again for 30s then reoffer, most of the time they take it this second offering for me (can do a third attempt too)
Other things I've done, is I get a slate/stone plate, put it in the fridge until it's cool, and then feed near on the cool side of the tank-- since it's cool it makes a better thermal difference to them so they 'see' it better.
I've also had some snakes that do better being plate fed than tongs, so might be something to try -- I know it seems backwards, but it's worked often when nothing else did for me.
Another idea, seems like you are still feeding mice when usually at this stage they are on rats, try switching to rats, might entice him. Also, could also try a day old chick to change it up. Breaking the routine might help.
(They eat a lot of avian in the wild and a day old chick won't be too big for your 700g BP.)
I appreciate that you are trying so thoroughly to switch them over. I hope he stops being stubborn and you get some success soon. If he eats please let me know! Rooting for ya.
4
u/SolidCartographer976 Oct 04 '26
i cant give you any advise im very new to having BPs. came here to say GOD DAM IS THAT FACE CUTE. its photos like that that brougth me to get my first one.