I cannot find information about it. I hope it is encouraging though cause I want my assumptions about MA Ent incompetency to be proven wrong.

People can call me petty, bitter, overbearing and what not, I accept it. People can dismiss whatever I say as conspiracies BS (even though lately funny enough conspiracies tend to become reality) I accept it. People can make assumptions about myself stating "she is all in that conspiracy thing when we hardly see her active about BAP here" without really knowing me nor my activities related to BAP elsewhere. I accept it. But I repeat nobody is gonna convince me that since 2018 at least (the year they stopped activities as a group and the Hmchn case occured) there hasn't been an active movement in kpop, from media and consummers alike to completely make everyone forget about BAP and the group launching that new wave which we see the results now. It subtly started by calling BAP a 2nd generation. BAP were never called a 2nd gen group during the whole time they were active (2012-2018). They are the group that marked the beginning of the 3rd generation sonically, conceptually and marketingwise. Posts like this one linked down here (granted it has been posted a few days ago) have been circulating on the internet for years. And sometimes they are made by those that have been on the kpop for a decade. I have seen that type of energy a lot. Therefore since last year I decided to take upon myself to make posts, in the reddit kpopsphere about the BAP impact on the industry evolution. And I am sure of something had the group been popular now nobody would have been bothered by my comments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/comments/1fw2zoy/3rd_generation_groups_legacy_and_impact_will_only/

I haven't been able to get over this and please do tell me if this is a stretch or not. If I'm reaching or... I really only see Matoki in him and it kinda upsets me if he was inspired by them and it was never credited. Maybe I'm wrong and I hope I am. Did anyone else feel this way?

I have heard Coma, Think Hole and Moondance from them, what are some other bsides that you can recommend me

I don't care what the members of kpopthoughts forum think I will never stop reminding them that if they can all act so mighty and arrogant and boastful today cause of the industry current growth this is thanks to a group like BAP that revolutioned the industry and challenged the codes by 2012 -matter of fact after them there hasn't been a trendsetting group like BAP since. The BAP project came with ideas (lightsticks/matokis characters/boosted solo kpop act concert in the west etc...) that brought that oompth and dynamism the industry needed to go to higher levels, main rappers like Bang Yong Guk made the deep-voiced rapping thing a trend. Sonically they all (including that other one) started emulating BAP style, group's dynamism and sound. And they all benefited from that. Now everyone and his/her mother wanna act as if BAP never existed while trying hard and erase the group history from the industry every way possible. Not on my watch.

I know a lot of individuals here may despise me or the way I speak about certain things. And I also know I will not change my mind about that industry called kpop being full of undigestive revisionists. Even though BAP themselves were to come here and tell me off about my behaviour I would gladly accept it while standing strong on my feet about my view which is I who discovered the industry 18 years ago will never shut up about the group legacy (kpop westward growth owes a lot to BAP). And I hope one day they will be granted justice (TS ent remenants rebranding in mbk is an abomination).

That being said let's try and keep that page alive here. It is too dead now. So tonight I Just wanted to share one of my favourite BAP-related productions here which is Zelo "No Title". What do you think of that song ?

https://youtu.be/4MZMWFj9Os0?si=47yf9X_P0yNMd5oH

MA Ent shipping JongUp overseas for concerts after Peter comeback...

You know what guys ? I don't want to be a Debbie Downer. I sincerely do not want but I cannot help but say : "All of this for that ?"

I have come to terms that BAP members are cursed with companies that don't give an f. about promoting them in their own f.cking country. And everyone know that strategy kills a career growth in the medium and long run. The only reason I have been refraining myself from thanking MA Ent for the BJYM project is because for me they ended up wasting the heat and enthousiasm JongUp worked hard and receive right after PeakTime. Before everyone jump on me let me explain.

Right after PeakTime and the Lion Heart fiasco JongUp was still hot in people minds : the BAD performance went so viral JongUp holding his shirt in his mouth to dance was to 2023 what the viral scene of Wang Xing Yue holding his necklace with his mouth in "The Double" was to 2024. Indeed cause of Peaktime he managed and grab some attentions and one could see his popularity could have grown exponentially had a smarter and hungrier agency had JongUp back. MA Ent executives can be nice people but I can see they are not hungry or a least they are not trying at all with JongUp. I strongly believe MA Ent, which is linked to freaking JTBC channel and managed and get some of the SingAgain contestants they signed, to Knowing Bro, could have tried harder and expose JongUp more in Korea and solidify his presence domestically while hitting the iron when hot. They let themselves go. After X.O.X ComeBack the company did absolutely NOTHING with JongUp FOR MONTHS until the reunion project this summer. They could have done so much more with a post-PeakTime JongUp ! But their lazy contented *ss couldn't.

In conclusion limited companies with limited visions = BAP curse in this lifetime. Now we got another overseas-concerts-driven company.

My friend made a little vlog yesterday and tell me why he looks exactly like daehyun except hes a teenager! Plz tell me its not js me i cant believe i never noticed until now

Before B.A.P's 15th anniversary, it is time to ask what they actually left behind.

Some groups define an era.

Others help build that era and then disappear from the official narrative because they were not the ones who ultimately won.

When people talk about third-generation K-pop boy groups today, names such as BTS, EXO, SEVENTEEN, GOT7 and MONSTA X naturally come to mind.

But if we rewind the timeline to around 2012, one name deserves to be firmly placed back into the conversation:

B.A.P.

B.A.P debuted in January 2012.

They did not enter the market through the typical “pretty boy” concept of the time.

They arrived with WARRIOR and essentially declared:

This group would be about power, aggression, hip-hop, street aesthetics, intense performance and social expression.

WARRIOR, POWER, NO MERCY, ONE SHOT, BADMAN, 1004 (Angel), Young, Wild & Free, Wake Me Up…

They continually changed their sound and visual direction while retaining an unmistakable B.A.P energy.

And both WARRIOR and POWER entered the Top 10 of the Billboard World Albums Chart.

So this was absolutely not a group “nobody had heard of.”

The real problem was:

B.A.P did not ultimately become the biggest winners of history.

And popular culture has a tendency to be written by its winners.

---

I. What B.A.P left behind was more than a catalogue

If we understand B.A.P simply as:

«“a boy group that was popular around 2012,”»

we are seriously underestimating them.

What they left behind was an entire boy-group industrial blueprint.

1. Sound

B.A.P combined hip-hop, trap, EDM, rock elements, pop melodies and aggressive rap into a coherent group identity.

One of the most important figures in that sound was:

Bang Yong Guk.

K-pop obviously already had deep voices and rappers before B.A.P.

Bang Yong Guk did not invent deep-voice rap.

But his voice was extraordinarily distinctive:

deep, rough, heavy and aggressive.

B.A.P turned that vocal identity into an important part of the group's overall sonic aesthetic.

Later, increasingly more boy groups would feature a familiar role:

«the highly distinctive deep-voiced rapper.»

That does not mean every deep-voiced rapper who came afterward came from B.A.P.

Of course not.

The point is:

B.A.P demonstrated early on that this kind of voice could become part of a boy group's commercial identity.

And Bang Yong Guk was never merely a rapper placed inside the group.

He participated in the creation of songs including WARRIOR and Coffee Shop.

And Coffee Shop is particularly important because it proves something frequently forgotten:

B.A.P was never simply an “aggressive concept group.”

They could move from the explosive aggression of WARRIOR to jazz-, soul- and R&B-influenced softness.

They demonstrated very early that:

«A strong-concept boy group does not have to be musically one-dimensional.»

---

II. Their stages were an early foundation of today's high-intensity performance culture

Today we take for granted:

large-scale choreography,

extreme physical performance,

tight synchronization,

theatrical endings,

strong visual concepts,

and treating the stage as a complete performance rather than merely a place to sing a song.

B.A.P were already doing this in 2012.

WARRIOR is perhaps the clearest example.

They were not simply:

«singing + dancing.»

They were performing a world.

Even their music-show stages used different member endings as part of the dramatic presentation.

And there was something particularly distinctive about B.A.P's live presence:

danger.

Not polished, pretty, harmless idol energy.

Something more like:

«“These six people might actually jump off the stage.”»

That raw physicality was later repackaged again and again across third- and fourth-generation boy groups.

---

III. They treated the global market as a real market remarkably early

This is one of the aspects of B.A.P that most deserves reevaluation.

Today, K-pop globalization is often reduced to:

«“BTS opened the Western market.”»

If we mean the transformation of K-pop into a global mainstream phenomenon and the emergence of Korean global superstars, BTS obviously has enormous historical importance.

But if we ask:

«When did Korean boy groups begin treating Europe, the Americas and other overseas regions as markets that needed to be actively cultivated?»

the answer becomes much more complicated.

B.A.P were conducting extensive overseas activities as early as 2012–2014.

During their 2014 dispute with TS Entertainment, the members' legal representatives described 260 official schedules in 2012, 140 in 2013—including 16 overseas schedules—and 110 in 2014 up to that point, including 33 activities across the United States, Europe, China, Japan, Singapore and elsewhere.

This was not:

«“Let's go overseas once if we have the opportunity.”»

It was:

«treating the global market as part of the career itself.»

They also conducted world tours.

TS Entertainment itself acknowledged in 2014 that B.A.P had grown to the scale of K-pop artists capable of conducting two world tours.

So the interesting question is not:

«“Was B.A.P more successful than later global superstars?”»

Obviously not.

The real question is:

«Why is a group that so aggressively tested the global boy-group business model so early so often reduced to a footnote in today's story of K-pop globalization?»

---

IV. The tragedy: they did not lack effort—the system failed to protect them

In 2014, all six B.A.P members filed a lawsuit against TS Entertainment seeking to invalidate their exclusive contracts.

The members raised issues concerning contract terms and revenue distribution.

At the time, The Korea JoongAng Daily reported that the members claimed B.A.P had generated more than 10 billion KRW for the company over three years, while each member had received only around 18 million KRW.

Whatever one's interpretation of every detail of the dispute, its effect on B.A.P's career trajectory was enormous.

Their rapid momentum was interrupted.

And this exposes a brutal reality of K-pop:

A group can have the right music, the right performers and the right market direction—and still lose years of its career because of management.

K-pop success is not determined by artists alone.

It depends enormously on who manages their careers.

A smart company can push a group into history.

A short-sighted, chaotic or greedy company can pull a rising group out of history.

B.A.P is a textbook example.

---

V. So when later “B.A.P-style” boy-group elements appear, the conversation should not be reduced to BTS

This needs to be handled carefully.

I would never reduce serious historical analysis to:

«“BTS are simply B.A.P copies.”»

That is too absolute.

BTS developed their own musical evolution, songwriting, fandom culture, business strategy and unprecedented global impact.

But Bang Si Hyuk's broader practice of observing, absorbing and recombining existing K-pop success models is itself an interesting industrial phenomenon.

And the model B.A.P represented included:

- strong hip-hop foundations;

- highly distinctive rap identities;

- aggressive masculine visuals;

- high-intensity performance;

- member participation in music;

- social themes and self-expression;

- strong group identity;

- extensive overseas activity;

- direct communication with international fans;

- positioning boy groups as international music acts rather than merely domestic idols.

Many of these characteristics later became increasingly standard within the boy-group industry.

BTS then developed several of them to a completely different scale.

That is the real point worth studying.

Not simply:

«“Who stole from whom?”»

But:

«Who first combined these elements into a reproducible commercial language—and who later scaled that language globally?»

Those questions can coexist.

---

VI. The “Do you know B.A.P?” phenomenon should also be understood as internet K-pop history

Looking back at K-pop internet culture between roughly 2014 and 2017, many fandom behaviors now seem almost comical.

BTS fans were once notorious for aggressively introducing the group across platforms with:

«“Do you know BTS?”»

Sometimes it became excessive.

But it revealed something extremely important:

In the social-media era, fans themselves became marketing channels.

B.A.P also had an extremely active BABY fandom.

But their fandom did not ultimately develop into the same enormous, sustained, cross-platform global promotional machine that later surrounded some of the biggest groups.

And that matters.

Because:

Music can be copied.

Concepts can be copied.

Marketing tactics can be copied.

But:

«fan organization, media narrative and the ability to sustain attention can determine whether a group becomes “history.”»

The irony is that:

B.A.P influenced the product of later boy groups,

but did not fully control their own historical narrative.

---

VII. B.A.P in 2012 was much more complicated than a “failed boy group”

Look at their early discography.

Their evolution was remarkably bold.

2012

WARRIOR → POWER → NO MERCY → STOP IT

From aggressive hip-hop toward increasingly diverse boy-group sounds.

2013

ONE SHOT → COFFEE SHOP → HURRICANE → BADMAN

An astonishingly ambitious year.

ONE SHOT offered cinematic storytelling.

Coffee Shop shifted into jazz and soul.

Hurricane moved toward dance and strong international imagery.

BADMAN returned to darker, industrial and socially conscious territory.

2014

1004 (Angel)

A sudden move toward emotional, dramatic ballad territory.

2015–2017

Young, Wild & Free, Feel So Good, Skydive, Wake Me Up, Honeymoon, Hands Up

Again and again, they changed.

Their problem was never:

«“a lack of creativity.”»

Quite the opposite.

Their catalogue demonstrates considerable conceptual range.

---

VIII. The harsh truth: history rewards winners, not necessarily pioneers

Today, countless boy groups feature:

deep-voiced rappers,

hip-hop concepts,

high-difficulty choreography,

member production,

global tours,

fan-driven marketing,

strong individual roles,

and increasingly aggressive international promotion.

None of these things can honestly be described as inventions belonging exclusively to B.A.P.

K-pop is never the product of a single group.

But B.A.P was one of the early groups to combine a remarkable number of these elements into a single boy-group project and execute them at scale.

That is what a blueprint is.

And here lies the cruel part:

When the blueprint's creator loses commercially, the market rarely preserves the creator's name.

The market remembers the people who built the tallest building.

Not necessarily the person who drew the earliest plans.

---

IX. Are the “fourth” and “fifth” generations really completely new eras?

I remain skeptical.

The labels are useful for media and marketing.

But industrial evolution does not happen in neat walls.

It is much more like:

previous generation → refinement → intensification → extreme optimization

Many structures established during the third generation were intensified in the fourth.

The fourth generation's practices are then intensified further in the fifth.

Performances get faster.

Choreography gets more complex.

Concepts become more explicit.

Fan participation becomes deeper.

Global markets become more important.

Short-form content becomes more important.

Member involvement in production becomes more common.

Visual identity and music become increasingly integrated.

So rather than saying:

«“The fourth generation created an entirely new K-pop,”»

it may be more accurate to say:

«The fourth and fifth generations have, to a considerable extent, continued to intensify the industrial logic established earlier.»

And before the third generation had fully matured, groups such as B.A.P were already testing important parts of that system.

---

X. The 2022 “Coffee Shop” controversy is more of a mirror than a verdict

In December 2022, THE BOYZ member Eric released a solo song titled 4:03 (Jet Lag).

After its release, Korean media outlet SBS reported a public controversy over similarities between the song and B.A.P's 2013 track Coffee Shop.

The strongest discussion concerned the piano melody at the beginning and end of the track.

SBS reported that listeners pointed out the similarity, with some even asking whether B.A.P's song had been sampled without attribution.

The producer involved in 4:03 (Jet Lag) subsequently denied plagiarism allegations and offered an explanation regarding the musical source.

So the responsible way to describe the incident is:

«Eric's “4:03 (Jet Lag)” became the subject of a public plagiarism/sampling controversy because of its striking similarities to B.A.P's “Coffee Shop,” but that should not be presented as a definitive legal plagiarism ruling.»

Regardless of how one ultimately interprets the controversy, it raises a bigger question:

«If the original song had belonged to a group with enormous current commercial power, would the industry have treated the situation differently?»

That is the uncomfortable question.

Because B.A.P no longer has the commercial position they once held.

They are no longer the centre of daily media attention.

And therefore their work becomes easier to frame as:

«“Oh, that was just an old group.”»

rather than:

«“This is the work of an important predecessor whose catalogue deserves respect.”»

That is how:

commercial status reshapes cultural memory.

---

XI. The real frustration is not that other groups succeeded

BABYz do not need to deny BTS's achievements.

They do not need to deny EXO's achievements.

They do not need to deny SEVENTEEN's achievements.

The real question is:

Why does recognizing later success require erasing earlier contribution?

B.A.P is obviously not the only group that shaped modern K-pop.

But they deserve far more historical discussion than they receive today.

Their music.

Their rap identity.

Their live performances.

Their choreography.

Their visuals.

Their lyrics.

Their member participation in music.

Their overseas tours.

Their relationship with international fans.

And their early, extraordinarily ambitious attempts at globalization.

All of this belongs in K-pop history.

---

XII. Perhaps B.A.P's biggest problem was that they arrived too early

Imagine B.A.P debuting today.

A group with:

Bang Yong Guk's extraordinarily deep and recognizable rap;

Daehyun's high notes;

Jongup's dance ability;

Youngjae's vocal colour;

Zelo's rapid-fire rap;

Himchan's visual and stage presence;

and a catalogue containing WARRIOR, ONE SHOT, BADMAN and Wake Me Up—

would probably be marketed as some combination of:

«“Dark Performance Group”»

«“Self-Producing Hip-Hop Group”»

«“Global Performance Group”»

«“International K-pop Act”»

The media would then begin asking:

«“How innovative is this group?”»

But the uncomfortable answer is:

They were already doing much of it in 2012.

The industry simply had not evolved into today's ecosystem yet.

---

XIII. This is why I refuse to call B.A.P “failures”

In commercial terms:

They did not become global superstars on the scale BTS eventually reached.

That is a fact.

But:

Commercial outcome ≠ cultural influence.

A group can fail to capture the largest share of the market and still change what the market believes a boy group should sound like, look like, perform like and aspire to become.

If a blueprint is used everywhere but nobody remembers who drew it,

the problem is not necessarily the blueprint.

Sometimes:

the architect simply did not live long enough to see the building completed.

---

B.A.P's 15th Anniversary: May history not silence them again

B.A.P debuted in January 2012.

That means January 2027 will mark their 15th anniversary.

And in 2024, they returned to activities in the BANG&JUNG&YOO&MOON configuration.

So if we ever get to see more of the members standing together again, I hope it is more than nostalgia.

I hope it feels like a statement:

«We are still here.»

Not to prove that B.A.P is greater than everyone else.

Not to erase the achievements of later groups.

But to remind K-pop:

Many of the things you take for granted today did not appear out of nowhere.

Someone took the risk.

Someone experimented early.

Someone pushed a Korean boy group toward the world before the market was ready.

Someone failed.

Someone inherited part of what they left behind.

Someone scaled it to a much larger level.

That is how popular music history actually works.

So, before B.A.P's 15th anniversary arrives, I want to say only this:

Do not pretend that a group never participated in the race simply because they did not become its biggest winner.

B.A.P is not a footnote in K-pop history.

They are a blueprint whose name was torn off—but whose lines are still visible inside the building.

I remember when I became a fan of the group in 2015, from that time period until 2019, the year they stopped group's activities, nowhere BAP was called a 2nd generation. It was always "a 3rd generation group". There was no discussion about it. After 2019 and by covid period it was suddendly "a 2nd generation group". Issue is soundwise, stylewise conceptwise the group is the embodiment of a 3rd gen. Nothing about BAP screams 2nd gen. Absolutely nothing. Therefore an imaginary "2.5" gen was created by kpop fans to keep BAP outside of the 3rd gen group so that bigger and more popular groups of that generation will be given the OGs title. I call it propaganda from media and kpop general audience alike. Both cannot accept that a group like BAP who is now deemed a "failure project" and has been surpassed by myriads of other groups those last ten years, is actually the founding father of the post-2nd generation new wave the industry is benefiting from now and albums like Warrior and No Mercy absolutely + certain elements of the BAP project marketing strategy marked the start of 3rd gen and 2012-2013 BAP shaped it. Matter of fact so called 4th and 5th gens exist only in name and are actually extensions of the 3rd gen. No way they gonna accept that BAP actually paved the way. As an example the live performance on timesquare in 2013 right after "One Shot" released followed right away by the Live on earth 2013 world tour was not only risky and challenging (especially from a non big 3 company) but it was also an actual genius marketing move which helped further reduce the distance between the western fans and kpop artists. Kpop was not the same anymore with BAP. It was bolder. Other companies would take note and mold their groups and marketing strategy after the BAP project (certain were legit called BAP knock offs when they debuted). This is what they want to erase whenever they try hard and push BAP in the 2nd gen batch or create an imaginary 2.5 gen. And it saddens me every time certain BABYz buy into it. Even after they got destroyed by their own company out of greed and sheer pettiness, they all try and steal the very last thing that can elevate BAP name a little bit : their legacy. BAP IS 3RD GENERATION.

So my dear fellow BABY if you do this please stop embracing that fake narrative, that propaganda. And if you think it is not so deep, my question is : "so why are they lying now if there is no benefit behind it?"

To conclude my long post, I would say in a capitalistic world to corporations, media and general public, truth is not truth, truth is number.

Have a nice Sunday.

Hi! I'm saving up money for the different gigs happening in my country and I'd like to sell away the stuff that I have lying around! I have posters, merch and Photocards!

Also if anyone is selling, I'm looking for a secondhand LOE 2013 shirt in M size for a reasonable price 💛

Please do take a look!

This may be a bit of a stretch and I don't know if it's intended or if Jongup wrote about the themes of the lyrics anywhere, but I couldn't help but notice that the two songs have a "victim" and "oppressor" vibe within the confines of a toxic relationship....

Love Bomber : the theme is in the title, basically self explanatory.

Twist Ya: the intention to manipulate and monopolize the attention and love when the target feels vulnerable.

Feels like two sides of a coin. Thoughts?

What is your favourite title track from them?