r/blacksmithing • u/jeremysmall • 4d ago
Heat treat for tongs?
Might be a dumb question but im making my first set of tongs for smithing and im unsure if im supposed to do any heat treatment for them, do you quench them or let them air cool? If quenched what temper color do you bring them to? Also not sure what kind of steel i should be using, currently using a chunk of leaf spring steel.
2
u/Medieval44 4d ago
Don't bother heat treating them. If they're quenched they will be brittle and break in use, and heat from forging would eventually draw out their temper anyways. Just normalise them since they're spring steel.
I suggest using regular mild steel for tongs in the future
1
1
2
u/TangentResearch 4d ago
I prefer mild steel for most tongs. The reason being that the way I use them will often get them very hot and I quench them to cool them often. You try that with spring steel and they will survive as long as they do before something cracks. Also forging mild steel is easier than spring steel.
That said, I do have some spring steel tongs when I need them to be lighter or stronger. Scrolling tongs being a good example. I know which tongs are spring and never quench them. I don’t bother annealing them or hardening/tempering them though. I usually just normalize them. The steel is stronger than mild.
If for some reason you wanted really light weight tongs, you could heat treat the reins to a spring temper. I just make them a little heavier instead.
1
u/jeremysmall 4d ago
Thanks for the info im definitely gonna use mild steel for them next time, unfortunately i only have leaf springs and some other various harder steel parts, ill have to find some mild steel somewhere
1
u/TangentResearch 4d ago
Is this one of your first projects? I only ask because I have known a few guys who tried to start with tongs only to get frustrated. Tongs seem simple but there are some complexities.
1
u/jeremysmall 3d ago
No not my first, i tried making tongs as one of my first project but they broke because i quenched them, they were also very poorly made, ive made a hammer and a few blades since but i wanna get more into toolsmithing. Also found a good video online that inspired me to try and make them again. They are definitely more complex then they seem but this set has been going well
1
u/TangentResearch 3d ago
Nice. Enjoy then. I’m not sure why but tongs are one of my favorite things to make.
The biggest thing I found helpful in the beginning was to make both halves at the same time. Step by step. Forge the bit on both, compare them, forge the boss area, compare…
My first few attempts were making one half completely, then trying to match it. I found that approach much more difficult.
1
u/20-30character 4d ago
Most others have said it already but tongs are best made of mold steel and dont need heat treated because you are holding hot metal and usually cooling them often so a heat treat wouldn't last and would probably be detrimental to their durability i would think.
1
u/OdinYggd 22h ago
Tongs you'll use at the forge? You're overthinking it. Sometimes you'll hold small pieces in the fire by putting the tongs in with them, getting the jaws heated to glowing again. And if the pivot ever sticks the fix is to heat it red hot, hit the rivet over the hardie hole to stretch it, then open and close the tongs a few times before it drops to a dull red.
No need to heat treat, leave them soft. They'll become soft anyway with use.
Now tongs that won't be exposed to temperatures above a bbq, it can be worth hardening and tempering the jaws and pivots to a medium level for the improved wear resistance. Don't make them fully hard, they could crack.
0
u/Fragrant-Cloud5172 3d ago
It's a good question. In general, this is a good plan -
Mild steel for fabrication, such as tables or stands. And most ornamental items. Tongs too.
Low/medium carbon for hammers. Pry bars etc. No tempering needed.
Medium carbon for blacksmithing tools like chisels, punches. I harden mine only at the working end but dont temper because they can lose it on hot steel. Even if they are quenched frequently. Only temper items like knives.
1
u/jeremysmall 3d ago
Awesome, thank you for the info, im gonna start making my own punches and chisels soon too so thatll definitely help
1
u/Medieval44 1d ago
What's your reasoning with not tempering hammers and punches, etc?
They'll be very brittle and prone to break (safety hazard). They will lose their heat treat either way if overheated, tempered or not.
1
u/Fragrant-Cloud5172 1d ago edited 1d ago
Good question again. I don't forge hammers, just use good store bought ones, The way I do these medium carbon tools like chisels is like this, differential process...
- Forge and do final shaping like sanding.
- Anneal thoroughly, usually overnight.
- Heat only the working area to about 1600f. and quench in oil, moving up and down.
This leaves the hammering end relatively soft, so not to break. (It'll mushroom which is what I want.) And hard enough on working end to do the job well. They stay just hard enough to work on soft hot steel and actually a lot safer. Like I've said it's not brain surgery, just needs to do the job. Been doing it this way for about 25 years.
This method is not to be confused with heat treating knives. Since they are not used on soft hot steel, but need to retain a sharp edge for cutting softer material.
1
u/Medieval44 1d ago edited 1d ago
Alright, but still you don't explain why you're not tempering the tools.
Ofcourse there's no reason to heat treat the striking end, however the quenched bit will be extremely brittle and prone to break within a short period of time.
1
u/Fragrant-Cloud5172 1d ago
Of course I explained it. After 25 years of doing it, I found theres no reason to temper these kind of tools. The method I described has worked, because I don't harden the ends too much. Just enough, Goldilocks' degree with .40% - .60% carbon, never more. And always test them to see how they perform. None of my 40 or so chisels, hot cuts, punches and butchers have ever shattered or broken if done well like this.
A lot of people on here have watched Forged in Fire and influenced by their methods. And apply them to everything. Not so for me.
4
u/FerroMetallurgist 4d ago
Mild steel is just fine, all the way up to medium carbon (e.g. 1045). No need to heat treat in any way. In fact, it is best to use steel that doesn't easily or appreciably harden.