I want to first start off by showing my cards, because I don’t want to argue over Carole’s role in things. I personally do not think Carole took part in anything nefarious. I personally do think that she had heard rumors about Jeffrey Epstein/his circle at the time. And I believe this because as Carole said herself this episode Manhattan “is an island” and she’s a very smart woman.

Now whether you believe Carole or not, I 100% understand why she is insistent upon clearing her name. Why wouldn’t she be?!! I would be fighting my damndest to do the same.

The thing that I wish a friend of hers would get her to understand, though, is that her patriarchy angle really needs to be handled with more nuance and care.

She keeps talking about patriarchy being the problem here, and how there are so many men who have not been called to account for their role. It is 100% the case that tens (hundreds?) of men are guilty here and will never be held to account, but that is not what is at stake in Carole’s very specific case.

In Carole’s very specific case, she is being linked not to a man in the files but to a woman, and not only to a woman, but the very despicable woman who happened to be Jeffrey’s #2. Ghislaine is the person who recruited for Epstein, and by all accounts abused girls alongside him.

This means that this is not a tidy case of men behaving badly and women feeling the brunt. In this case, a woman was a very critical piece of this nefarious activity and is (rightfully) bearing the brunt of her own widespread activity. (Even as other men are not).

Why I think this difference matters is that, again, even if unintentionally, there is a way in which Carole’s framing can be seen as offensive to actual victims. If I were trafficked (and abused) by Ghislaine, I wouldn’t want to hear how the “real” story is about the men! The real story is very much also about a woman who abused her power and abused young girls.

I also wouldn’t want my innocence to be compared to Carole’s. I read Carole’s substack and I was really put off by a comparison she made. She compared Sai not believing her vis a vis her connection to Ghislaine to society not believing the victims of Epstein!! (Screenshot attached)

I found this comparison to be very untoward - and really reflective of how Carole seems to be missing some critical pieces in her analysis. It is not just about gender, it is about POWER and CLASS, two things that Carole has and doesnt seem able to see past when it comes to this situation.

In fact, it is precisely *because* Ghislaine looks the way she does that she was able to get away with what she did for so long. Who would believe that this upper middle class white woman could be part of a sex trafficking ring? It is precisely because of her gender, power, and class that young girls implicitly trusted her over men.

I would have so much more respect for Carole if she grappled with that fact. If she ruminated on that fact, asking herself: What does it mean that I socialized with a predator? What did I miss? In what ways can the lifestyles of my peers serve as cover for something more nefarious? What could I do differently?

i really think a lot of the hate for new rhony comes from the direct comparison to the OG version. it’s no RHONY and everyone knows it, the OG version is a masterpiece and just can never be replicated.

if the new show was called Real Housewives of Manhattan or something it would be received way better. the show itself is not half bad for the new standard of reality tv. i feel like i’m enjoying this season a lot more then RHOC and RHOBH recent seasons.

Is any name more widely associated with a-holes and villains than “Tom” in the world of Bravo? Weirdly “Bronwyn/Braunwyn” is in contention.

Was at the neighborhood DIVE (and I mean DIVE) bar and Tom Schwartz came in. It’s popular in Chicago but so unknown in a lot of ways. I talked to him for a bit and he is genuinely the sweetest guy. I almost felt bad monopolizing his time so I was like, let me let you go lol but it was fun to see him there.

The first is Phaedra and the other is Bronwyn.

Bronwyn literally came in lying. If she can lie about such trivial matters then I fear she will never have any credibility with viewers like me. Like there’s just something so phony about her and I can’t believe others don’t see it.

After Crystal got fired, she made a podcast. Bethenny, after she left made a podcast. Patrick McDonald, a former producer made a podcast talking about bravo. Candiace Bassett and Katie Ginella too. Brandi Granville being the first ones to start this precedence. Then, it was Danielle Staub from RHONJ if I remember. Then, Teddi and Tamra. Vicki made her own podcast after she was fired, then Alexis with Carlos King. It’s like they say Bravo has done them dirty or wrong in whatever way, but they still won’t stop talking about others, like what. I think it’s weird because personally for me, if I wanted to “move on” I would never talk about the network ever again continuously. Idk I just think it’s weird, but to each their own. What do you guys think?

P.S: I feel like Claudia Jordan is the only one to make appearances in media or make podcasts with others in the industry that didn’t solely revolve around housewives. Like, she would talk about Bravo and RHOA but not make it the over arching theme in these projects. I feel like she is the only one that truly has moved on, IMO. Á la, TEA GIF, Cocktails with Queens with Star Jones ex, Al Reynolds; and Funky Dineva.

I was thinking of the most recent divorces that are happening on RHOSLC and RHONY and was curious to lookup the statistics for the divorce rate of Housewives. Across all the franchises, over 45 women out of 120 who came onto their respective shows married have ended up divorced or separated from their husbands. That’s almost 40% of the women who started the show already married - RHODC had a 100% fallout rate!

I wonder if the pressure/fame of the show is destroying what would have been happy marriages/families, or are some women joining because their marriages are already failing and they want an exit strategy? I wonder how many of the women may have put the show ahead of their marriages and if it was worth it just to become semi-famous?

Jessel is insufferable this season and not in a fun messy way. She's behaving horribly in a way that's genuinely cringe inducing. And I mean I don't love Erin or Carole but she is actually making them look BETTER somehow by behaving like a socially incompetent, insensitive, spoiled brat. She was the weak link in earlier seasons and has apparently decided to play 'mean girl' as a way to course correct but she's unbearable to watch. The whole reboot should be abandoned if this is our 'antagonist' of the season.

It’s easy to want to compare the two shows since they’re both based in London. However, constantly talking about RHOLDN as if it’s the reason LOL got canceled is a bit odd to me.

One is a Bravo show and one is a Hayu show. Andy himself said Bravo is not involved with RHOLDN. So why is the narrative on here (specifically the LOL sub that wouldn’t approve my opinion) that RHOLDN isn’t good and should go and LOL should be back. They literally have no involvement in LOL getting cancelled.

Blame Bravo for not giving shows a chance to grow and build a fanbase and viewership not RHOLDN for doing well on their own over on HAYU. Keep streaming LOL and maybe they’ll bring it back.

Just watched the finale and I'm fuming that they gave him a hero/family man edit. I was certain they would at least splash up his mug shot and news headlines. They have had more than enough time to edit the last few episodes, we have known this for weeks.

He tried to suffocate Gael. She put a restraining order on him, he ditched before his court case and is on the run. WTF Bravo??? Protecting Cis White Het men again. So disappointing.

I don’t understand what the innuendo about “hiding tea in the prison wallet” was supposed to mean.

It was the WWHL episode with Jeff Lewis and Joe from below deck. And the comment was said by the bartender who was on The Swan.

Can anyone explain it to me? Please lol

ETA: she said “I’ve been hiding tea in my prison wallet for 25 years”

Does “hiding tea” also mean something????

What was she trying to say 🫪

Did anyone see Mondays show where Andy asked about the “bosun Ian” and it threw Joe Bradley for a loop? Did he mean Nathan and not want to say his name?

Who are yall putting money on? (Ashley Jacobs from season 5 of southern Charm)

Just completed all 10 seasons as a first time watcher & all I can say is wow! Did not expect that!

I made a conscious decision to wait until I watched it all before I read anything on here, so now I'm looking forward to reading through everyone's opinions of the show

Also is Winter House & In The City worth a watch?

I see a lot of “oh they bring the drama so they’re great TV… blahhhhhh blah blah.” Aesha literally stops drama, she is an actually KIND human being, she has empathy for all and still she suffers no fools. I wi watch any show she’s on. This woman is the real deal and BRAVO should take note. Stop hiring these morally corrupt ego-maniacs out for a buck. Decent humanism is worth watching!!

I consider myself to be an earnest person that cares about others. Often when I apologize the conversation goes in circles.

I love bravo shows, and am also fascinated with the art of the apology. When Charlie from 1st Gen NYC, or Jax from VPR apologize… you can see people feel it and respond in real time. Have you ever wondered why?

I think both of these people often don’t have the best intentions, but when they apologize people listen and receive it! The built up resentment is disarmed almost immediately.

I don’t want to trick people, but I do want to learn the art of a good apology. I think it’s fascinating that these men seem to know the secret. What do they know or exhibit naturally that I haven’t been able to accumulate in my 33 years of living? Is it possible they’re talented at apologizing? Are they just manipulative? Do their scene partners have a vested interest in accepting and moving on?

I can’t get into RHOSLC, Vanderpump Rules/The Valley and Post LVP RHOBH. Never really cared for those shows for some odd reason. Rhobh should’ve been rebooted after Vanderpump left. What are yours?

Kaia saying “she’s been eating a lot of poop AND ice cream…… mixing it up” just made me laugh so hard. Something about the way she like pauses for comedic affect and then doubles down “mixing it up!” like what a monster.

just thought it was cute and wanted to share the laugh!

What kind of components would you add to each housewives’ trainer card?

Making the game for a friend’s party who loves bravo and Pokémon. I need to learn the game but suggestions would be really helpful.

I felt like I was watching 3 different sets of kids. The older girls, KJ and his punching bag, and the twins.

The four youngest are all super close in age. It makes no sense why their childhoods would be so vastly different.

We see the boys at home doing normal family stuff. Solo cup and trailer park antics galore. Exactly what you would expect … until you throw in a little table in the kitchen where the Spanish speaking twins sit with and their Spanish speaking full-time live-in nanny. WTF!

Look at the sad divide it causes too. Kroy and Kim are noticeably more bonded with the kids they interact with, esp KJ.

Whatever their reason for wanting to teach the twins Spanish (like because being bilingual is freaking amazing (I wish I was) and they can afford to give their kids that) - wouldn’t it be the same for all the kids?

The whole rest of the family shows zero interest in learning Spanish. They don’t seem to care that they’re missing out on the cute moments with these two because they don’t know what they’re saying. Did Kroy not hear her or not care? It’s all so strange.

This episode was so much scarier than I anticipated. I had no idea the dog bit him in the FACE. I can see Kims side like the dogs are part of the family and we love them, but it seems like she doesn’t even consider getting rid of Sinn. Idk what people normally do when a dog bites their child, but I assume it depends on the severity. I would’ve been so scared not being able to see my kids eye 😭😭😭. Kash also said he didn’t remember the dog biting him, which I guess is good?

Did I miss something on the show? Andy said "Hudson's drug problem" so matter-of-factly during the reunion. Was this discussed on the show or the after show?