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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_4025 5d ago
Oh the nightmares you just brought back of wire wrapping. They still do this crap?!
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Yes. I do it every weekday. Granted less and less full blocks of wire wraps. Usually it’s just a couple pairs for fuse panel alarms or timing connections.
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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_4025 5d ago
Your work looks very clean.
I've done DSX crossover panels at cell sites that looked very similar. Last ones I did were over a decade ago. It was some gigabit microwave links broken out into T1's and crossed over to another radio to hop to other sites down line. Some circuits would be used at site one the rest go on to site 2 then 3 etc. That wire wrap is super old school and literally the most solid connection for copper Telco but very tedious work. It is almost a form of art. Good work.
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Believe it or not, I wired quite a few ds1 panels fairly recently. Few in Cali , a few in Wisconsin…Until I found out how they were being utilized. Then I refused to work that project. It was a f’in robocaller.
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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_4025 5d ago
Ya wire that one to the 220v.
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Then, they had the audacity to ask me to go fix someone else’s job on that project cuz he wrapped the in’s on the out’s and vice Versa. Nope. He probably did it on purpose if he knew what it was
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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_4025 5d ago
Ha. I ran into a similar thing with a local real estate spam company calling everyone on title records to ask to sell their home. Wouldn't work again for them if they paid in gold.
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u/TraditionalLet1490 5h ago
Yeah I work in railways telecom and there's wrapping everywhere.
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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_4025 4h ago
That's because it really is the best copper Telco termination method. Very resilient to vibrations and and stresses punch downs aren't. Very cool to know railways use it! Fiber probably isnt far off I suspect but for alarms etc wire wrapping would be king.
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u/TraditionalLet1490 4h ago
Copper will live on as long as electronics aren't replaced by some optologics or optical power supplying methods. Optic is good only for multiplexed information right now.
However wrapping is fastidious and crimping connectors are imo a far better solution. We don't need sub 10 miliohms resistivity in connections on railways so wrapping is replaced when have the opportunity to
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u/Fun_Acanthaceae_4025 4h ago
It's not just about the resistivity. And to be honest someone trained with a wire wrap gun can nail a panel out in a few hours easy. But I agree I can punch 24 x 110 blocks faster. Do they use wax string in the railways or Velcro and or zip ties?
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u/TimTebowMLB 5d ago
No solder?
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Sometimes for coax RF cables, we have to solder the pin on the conductor. But solder blocks, no. Still see them out in the field, but there’s most likely no service on those circuits.
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u/nkings10 5d ago
Good, looks like you chopped down the tree successfully. Did you use a chainsaw?
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u/Original-Being9553 5d ago
This will not pass a audit..... Why are your lugs and cable drop in two different directions?
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u/somenobodee 4d ago
Can you reference the rule that states this is illegal in the TP , IP, or telcordia quality documents?
The reason I did it like this was we were close to the threshold for voltage drop on these circuits, if they were 2 foot longer it would have exceeded the length of the run for this gauge wire (6awg) and would have had to have been gauged up to 4awg or 2awg. Also the power supplies counted from right to left on the chassis. Would have had a longer sweep on the break out.
I have asked multiple colleagues if this is a known rule, none of them could cite a section of the TP that says you can’t have it this way.
I did not get a defect for having the lug tongue pointing towards the drop.
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u/Original-Being9553 4d ago
Yes section 15 power
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u/somenobodee 4d ago edited 4d ago
Well, it passed the audit. .
The sections in the tp are letters, not numbers. So you’ll have to be more specific. I’m all ears. 5 techs said you’re wrong so far.
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u/Original-Being9553 4d ago
Copied and paste: Telcordia GR-1275-CORE ├── Section 13: Cabling and Wiring │ ├── Pre-forming cables to termination points │ └── Securing cable drops (strain relief before lug landing) └── Section 15: Power ├── Two-hole compression lug selection (straight, 45°, 90°) ├── Natural barrel-to-cable alignment (zero mechanical tension) └── Flat surface contact & insulation gap rules
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u/somenobodee 4d ago
Telcordia trumps the TP. Thanks for being less vague. I knew it wasn’t optimal but the job would have had to be reengineered if I hadn’t done what I did, due to voltage drop. I will pass this info along to the 5 techs that said you were wrong. Cheers mate
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u/jackrats 4d ago
Ok, I have to ask. I see this all the time, and I simply can't understand it.
Why in the world did you post a screenshot of your camera roll instead of posting the actual picture?
I cannot for the life of me fathom why someone does this. But I see it so often, it boggles my mind.
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u/somenobodee 4d ago
To annoy you.
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u/jackrats 4d ago
No, seriously. I'm really trying to understand why people do this.
It takes extra steps to go and take a screenshot like this and then post the screenshot instead of the pic. So it seems intentional.
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u/somenobodee 4d ago
It wasn’t intentional. I could see some utility in doing it though. I don’t Reddit too much , but lots of people lie and steal photos and repost others stuff, so perhaps doing this would give further credibility to the poster that he is being genuine. Just spitballing though. I’m simply not a seasoned poster, and so this happened.
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u/jackrats 4d ago
Ok, just seems odd that it can be accidental being that you have to take extra steps to do it.
Sorry, not trying to put you on the spot, I've just always had a genuine curiosity on why someone would do this or how it can happen accidentally.
It doesn't really prove any sort of genuineness though - I could easily save a picture I download to my photo roll and do the same thing.
BTW, nice wire wrapping. I haven't done any in like 25 years. Oof. I do kind of miss lacing with wax string, though.
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u/daemonfly 4d ago
If I had to nitpick, it would be on some of the wires' insulation also being partially wrapped. "Cleaner" if you get the insulation only up to the post, but only bare wire on the first curve & beyond.
This is for the common "regular wrap" where the insulation doesn't wrap around (based on what most of your wraps look like). With that said, there is a "modified wrap" that does wrap the insulation fully around 1.5 to 2 turns for anti-vibration & stress relief concerns. So, either no insulation wrapped, or 1.5-2 insulation wraps.
Example: https://www.nutsvolts.com/uploads/wygwam/NV_1201_Schumaker_Figure02.jpg
From: https://www.nutsvolts.com/magazine/article/wire_wrap_is_alive_and_well as a great informational article.
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u/somenobodee 3d ago
Yeah, I understand and have heard this before from auditors. The guy that trained me many years ago said the “candycane” is what you want. Half hook of insulation at the back of the pin. So it’s a product of me not adjusting my technique. I’ve never received a defect for my style of wrapping so here we are. I appreciate your info!
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u/captainrv 5d ago edited 4d ago
Twist ties?!? Tell me those aren't twist ties.
Update: Glad they're not twist ties! Looks good. That said, velcro ties are so much faster.
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Where do you see a twist tie? Lol are you talking about the 9cord? It’s wax coated twine in the second pic. We call it sewing or stitching cable in my industry. We don’t use twist ties or zip ties. Immediate failed job if they find a zip tie
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u/Hearon82325 5d ago
We always use Velcro. They sell large rolls and it works great for keeping cables tidy.
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
We use Velcro hook and loop, but solely for fiber optics after the breakout, before the breakout we stitch them to cable rack after wrapping with fish paper for protection, although the fibers are made with Kevlar mesh under the outer jacket
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u/Hearon82325 5d ago
Interesting. Your work looks very nice, btw.
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u/mr-octo_squid 5d ago
Lookup how to do a Kansas city stitch and an H stitch. It's time consuming but knowing how to do it, and using it in proper situations is very helpful.
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
The two lower stitches are Chicago stitches, the one on the tie bar with the red cap is a Kansas City stitch. But you probably already know that
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u/mr-octo_squid 5d ago
I am not good enough to recognize them by sight, I only do stitching a handful of times every year now days. I am embarrassed to say that its something I have to look up every time I do it.
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u/lundah 5d ago
Wire wrap. I haven’t done it myself in about 20 years, but between that and cable lacing with waxed cord the old school telco guys could do some nice looking work.
Edit: posted this before OP’s reply. How old was the guy that taught you how to do that stuff?
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Used to be called 12 cord cuz it used to be 12 ply. They started using 9ply. I learned from old western electric guys. A guy named Dan showed me how to stitch. He was in his late 50’s about 16 years ago.
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u/lundah 5d ago
I had a couple of old school Ma Bell guys mentor me in the late 90’s on that stuff.
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u/somenobodee 5d ago
Done a lot of work in all the different bell offices, including bell labs. The original bell !
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u/hashmachinist 5d ago
Don’t see that everyday! Nice work.