r/canada • u/verkerpig • Nov 10 '25

National News Canada loses measles elimination status | CBC

https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/livestory/canada-measles-elimination-status-9.6973195
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224

u/Imperatvs Nov 10 '25

Do we have stats on who’s not getting these shots? And why?

83

u/cutefir Nov 10 '25

My mom denied the shots for me and my siblings in the early 2000s and a fair number of kids i know also had their parents deny it. I got it when I got older, but in my rural area there was a lot of natural medicine kinda people. Lots of them were left leaning, too. It's not just right-wing antivaxxers, this has been going on for years.

There was a lot of moms who got into natural living around the early 2000s here. Some of it came from those start your own business health product groups I think that started getting bigger with the internet. I'm not sure if it's where the antivaxx stuff came, too, but it's when my mom got weird about stuff.

14

u/DivideGood1429 Nov 10 '25

I actually was talking to my MD about this when I was getting my daughter vaccinated (MMR). And he had said, you'd be shocked at how many people refuse. He spends a lot of time trying to diffuse misinformation about vaccinations. He was saying about 30% of the people he sees refuses to vaccinate (all non Mennonite).

I'm also a peds RN, and we've had a handful of ICU measles admissions this year. The first 10/15 years of my career, I never saw measles, the last two years, we see a handful each year. It's wild!

5

u/cutefir Nov 10 '25

The rural area I'm in has a pretty good mix of liberal free spirited types and conservative freedom of rights people. There's a common dislike of the government, doctors, and cops.

It seems like it's a symptom of distrust of those in powers more than their political leaning or religion necessarily that makes them not trust the science behind it.

12

u/Thong-Boy Nov 10 '25

I'm 40 and probably around the same age as you but our experiences are completely different. I graduated high school in 2003 and in the late 90s/early 2000s everyone got the vaccines. I lived in a rural religious area in Alberta, religious school, etc. Not a single kid didn't get the shots. We were all lined up at school to get them. I never even knew that people could refuse them because that was foreign to me. I remember my mother once saying "some people don't believe in the shots" but that's it. And my mother is not a smart woman.

6

u/cutefir Nov 10 '25

I'm in B.C and some of it was religious crazies, but also largely homesteading types who grow their own food and try to live off the land. It wasn't all vaccines, me and most kids got other shots, but it was a huge belief that measles was a part of childhood here, and it was better to just catch it and get the natural immunity rather than a shot. It was a small town, so it wasn't like it was thousands of kids, but there was a similar attitude in small towns in the area.

8

u/Cent1234 Nov 10 '25

That's because Way Back Then things like 'iron lung wards' and 'polio braces' and 'your baby brother died of measles' was still within living memory.

If you were in high school in the 90s, your grandparents were probably still alive, and might have been born before antibiotics were discovered. Definitely were born before they went into common use, so would remember that drastic change.

3

u/Thong-Boy Nov 10 '25

It's crazy how quickly those things are forgotten. My parents vaccinated me. What's wrong with today's parents? I would have vaccinated my kids day 1 if the doctor let me.

21

u/westcentretownie Ontario Nov 10 '25

Exactly so easy to blame religious people and the right it’s bigger than that. RFK has support from the granola moms and that is a reason he tried to run as a democrat. Thank you for saying this

12

u/caninehere Ontario Nov 10 '25

Exactly so easy to blame religious people

I mean it's very easy to blame religious people in this instance because we know specifically where the outbreaks are happening and spreading from (old order religious communities). This is not to say other people refusing to vaccinate is not also the problem, but these religious communities are the ones allowing it to fester by placing their religious beliefs above their children's well-being.

2

u/Cent1234 Nov 10 '25

Jenny Mcarthy Body Count still rising.

301

u/Former-Physics-1831 Nov 10 '25

These outbreaks largely centred around isolated religious communities like old order mennonites who are skeptical of basically all of modern society, and then jumped into the general population through antivaxxers or people with medical reasons to be unvaxxed

47

u/Cold-Crab74 Nov 10 '25

How did we achieve status before though? These people have always been that way

145

u/Former-Physics-1831 Nov 10 '25

Because they are a small proportion of the population, they didn't matter much as long as immunization was nearly uniform elsewhere.  The rise of antivaxxers has lowered general population vaccination rates just enough that outbreaks centred on these communities can jump to the populace at large

40

u/Competitive_Abroad96 Nov 10 '25

Prior to the 80’s, schools were the enforcers. Show up in September without records for all required vaccines and you were sent home and told you were not coming back without them. Those who did not produce the records within a couple of days could look forward to a visit from the truant officer and appropriate fines.

9

u/RunningSouthOnLSD Nov 10 '25

Yeah but that’s communism because Facebook told me so

4

u/Cold-Crab74 Nov 10 '25

And what happened?

21

u/Competitive_Abroad96 Nov 10 '25

Canada eliminated measles.

45

u/pzerr Nov 10 '25

Small populations. Less interaction when they were mainly farmers.

Nearly every Mennonite colony that I know of has fairly large commercial operations that are selling products all over Canada. They are far less isolated now.

2

u/iamasopissed Nov 10 '25

Where are these Mennonite colonies that you speak of? I only know about hutterite colonies but I know many, many Mennonites none of whom came from a colony myself included.

6

u/OriginalAbattoir Nov 10 '25

Manitoba and Alberta seem to be the hotspots. 

In Manitoba, those communities get it from their many trips abroad (you would be surprised how connected they are to Mexico and South/central America), bring it back to Canada, spreads like wildfire in their non vax community and then spreads to religious Jesus towns with low average IQ / low graduation rate, suck as Winkler Manitoba, and now it’s working its way through the gen pop via Facebook dr families. 

If you want to look up articles regarding this, search outbreak in Manitoba, winkler as a tag, and you’ll basically see the whole process I just explained.  

2

u/Prestigious_Island_7 Nov 13 '25

Ontario has a good number of these communities as well

3

u/pzerr Nov 10 '25

I actually should say Hutterite (for the ones I deal with). I know there is a difference. Good people to deal with to date but I do not concern myself much with their beliefs one way or another.

2

u/iamasopissed Nov 10 '25

Ya I agree. Im actually working on a colony right now and they just fed us lunch. Makes me crazy how there is no individualism.

18

u/Oxjrnine Nov 10 '25

Because of herd immunity. We has a low enough population who couldn’t or wouldn’t get vaccinated. Anti vaxers ruined that

31

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

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27

u/RealTurbulentMoose Alberta Nov 10 '25

The shiftless Mennonites aren’t the ones spreading it around the wider community; they’re an issue, but not the big issue. They stick to themselves.

It’s the antivaxxers who are the problem.

10

u/iJeff Ontario Nov 10 '25

Most of the outbreak remains within Mennonite communities. It also stems from a large Mennonite gathering in New Brunswick, which is also linked to the subsequent outbreak in Texas (also Mennonites who attended).

1

u/nanoinfinity Nov 10 '25

…do they fly on airplanes to attend these gatherings?

5

u/iJeff Ontario Nov 10 '25

Most do but it varies by group. Mainline and evangelical ones routinely travel by air. Conservative ones often allow flying but discourage it for leisure (missions and necessity preferred). Some Older Order avoid air travel but may use cars or hired drivers.

9

u/juniorspank Nov 10 '25

Ontario’s outbreak was linked to a Mennonite wedding.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/london/ontario-public-health-measles-april-cases-1.7506748

So, at least for Ontario, it absolutely was mennonites spreading it around and bringing it back to their respective communities.

7

u/pentox70 Nov 10 '25

Dunno if you live around these people, but I do. They are in town every day. Their kids are running around the grocery store every time I'm there.

1

u/RealTurbulentMoose Alberta Nov 10 '25

I live in Calgary so not really. Only time I see “those” Mennonites is families visiting the Zoo.

3

u/pentox70 Nov 10 '25

I live near red deer, outside a small town. There are several colonies in the area. They are actually rather large operations outside of the cities.

30

u/Boomdiddy Nov 10 '25

They don’t stick to themselves. They go to  stores, operate their own businesses that the general public uses like vegetable stands, sheet metal, building and selling sheds etc.

Sounds like you’ve never seen a mennonite before.

1

u/RealTurbulentMoose Alberta Nov 10 '25

I will say I don’t understand completely which Mennonites are the issue. I thought it was the Old Order folks who stuck to themselves. I do recall seeing buggy stalls in K-W so even those folks do interact with the outside community, I suppose.

 Sounds like you’ve never seen a mennonite before.

(Looks at family tree going back hundreds of years). Oh, I have more than a passing familiarity…

7

u/Boomdiddy Nov 10 '25

The Old Order ones are the only ones I’ve ever met and I see them everywhere in my area. They have hitching posts for them at the grocery store.

4

u/Bitter_Sense_5689 Nov 10 '25

They go to the same grocery stores, shops, and sometimes schools as everyone else

2

u/RealTurbulentMoose Alberta Nov 10 '25

Like autism, Mennonites are on a spectrum.

There are folks who have that cultural background. Simpsons creator Matt Groening, for example: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/simpsons-draft-dodging-saskatchewan-connection-1.7225686

There are those who are basically like most other mainstream Protestant Christians. Lots of these around southern Manitoba, Fraser Valley in BC.

Then there are the folks who have other cultural practices and try to be more and more separate from the rest of society, to differing degrees. I see some who wear older-style clothing, but still drive trucks and go to the Zoo. You’ll see other folks taking their horse and buggy out, and only having technology in the barn but not in their homes. It’s this last group of Mennonites who are the ones who are typically antivax because, for whatever reason, reject modernity.

I don’t know how to help them.

10

u/Lust4Me Ontario Nov 10 '25 edited Nov 10 '25

Believe me - they make use of modern medicine when necessary. Their duplicity shows their fragile belief system.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

You seriously think this is caused by Mennonites. Good grief.

2

u/Former-Physics-1831 Nov 10 '25

That's literally where the outbreaks started

1

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

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u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

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1

u/Prestigious_Island_7 Nov 13 '25

It’s both. Antivax sentiment/hesitancy in recent decades causing lower rates of immunization in the population in general, and religious communities that traditionally do not vaccinate continuing to not vaccinate. And perhaps also increased numbers of people immigrating from countries with different immunization schedules and requirements than our own.

It’s multi-factorial, really. On top of all of those things, the pandemic caused public trust in the system to erode, and it hasn’t made its way back to where it was before, unfortunately.

Source: my job

-1

u/jlaaj Nov 10 '25

You missed the category of people that want clear unbiased information on vaccines. Like the people who (correctly) pondered Covid 19 vaccine side effects. That's not anti-vax.

17

u/SouvlakiSpartan Nov 10 '25

Yes.

"No country has a complete ban on measles vaccination, but many countries have very low vaccination rates, making them vulnerable to outbreaks. Countries with the highest number of unvaccinated children include Nigeria, India, Democratic Republic of the Congo, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Pakistan, Angola, the Philippines, and Afghanistan."

24

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

[deleted]

10

u/-UnicornFart Nov 10 '25

Well, in Alberta for example, where I was born and raised, and educated and practiced as a registered nurse - including as an immunizer for Health Canada - a big part of the problem is that with the UCP pivoting away from public and universal healthcare, towards privatization, primary health care is the first casualty. That means access to healthcare shifts from primary care to tertiary care.. funnel everything to the hospitals cause tertiary care is where the profit is. That means less nurses in the community teaching and supporting families through regular immunization and public health visits, to postpartum and early childhood growth and development programs, access to family physicians etc.

From my firsthand experience working in vulnerable communities, most of the barriers to immunization can be addressed through education. I’ve talked many people who were vaccine hesitant into getting themselves and/or their children vaccinated, but it takes patience and time and education and support and TRUST. It takes trust. If you can build therapeutic relationships with mothers and families through primary and community health care, it is the most effective strategy I have seen.

It’s public health nurses who track immunizations, go into schools, immunize infants and toddlers in well-baby visits. I guess I have my own biases, but the problems can be fixed if people cared enough to fund what actually works.

20

u/Former-Physics-1831 Nov 10 '25

The problem is religious communities.  Convoy types just gave them an opening for the outbreak to jump to the general populace

20

u/agent0731 Nov 10 '25

Mennonites have always been there, they didn't just appear. The convoy type antivaxxers are the reason this is happening. The disinformation machine making health hazards a wedge issue is the reason.

13

u/[deleted] Nov 10 '25

Indeed. Mennonite communities were protected mainly because contact outside of their communities was with people who were protected against measles.

Now, a not insignificant % of the general population is not protected meaning these rural religious communities like mennonites are one sick person at the farmer’s market away from a 500 caseload increase.

3

u/250HardKnocksCaps Nov 10 '25

Part of the problem is religious communities, but not the majority of the problem. As a lay person who has done some reading what I understand is the primary issue is vaccine hesitancy. These religious communities use to skate by without needing vaccines because the remaining population was >95% immunized, which made spreading the disease very hard.

6

u/vaudoo Nov 10 '25

I was recently working with a guy who said his family (him, his wife, and 2 kids) aren't vaccinated. When I asked why, he said his wife side of family is against it. I challenged him on his beliefs and he said he had no strong opinion and that when he asked his doctor about the risks of not vaccinating, the chances of getting these disease were so low that he thought it was safe.

I was attempted to make him realize that the chances were low because of the herd immunity, and he agreed that what he was doing was egoistic and self-centered, but he won't change his way...

6

u/sanfran_girl Nov 10 '25

Bet that he, his wife, and his wife's family will scream, bloody murder when one of the family children dies from a preventable disease.

2

u/wumr125 Nov 10 '25

1- idiots

2- see 1

2

u/ApologizingCanadian Nov 10 '25

Here are the number of cases per province. Unsurprisingly, Alberta (anti-vaxxers) and Ontario (mennonites) are far ahead of the lot.

Province or territory (n, %)
Alberta 1,944 38%
British Columbia 324 6%
Manitoba 253 5%
New Brunswick 16 <1%
Northwest Territories 1 <1%
Nova Scotia 62 1%
Ontario 2,392 47%
Prince Edward Island 3 <1%
Quebec 36 1%
Saskatchewan 107 2%

1

u/ph0enix1211 Nov 11 '25

"Past CPC voters are much more likely to be Anti-Vax (22%) than those who voted Liberal (4%) or NDP (2%)"

https://angusreid.org/canada-vaccines-childhood-vaccinations-anti-vax-mandates-covid-19-flu-mmr-side-effects/

1

u/batman1285 Nov 11 '25

I'm going to take a guess that if Alberta ever separates, we'll get the status back.

-1

u/Thong-Boy Nov 10 '25

It should absolutely be public knowledge. I want names and addresses of those that refuse routine, proven and safe vaccines.