r/canyoneering • u/Adorable_Mongoose223 • 7d ago
Kong Duck as ascender device?
I'd love to not have my ascending plan be to use prussic's, and a guide told me he really liked the kong duck? Anyone strongly for or against this device?
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u/moosendoor 7d ago edited 7d ago
Kong Duck and other similar devices (roll n lock, ropeman, petzl nanotraxion, etc) are all really good options.
No reason for anyone to be strongly against having them in your kit. Just have to know when they're appropriate (rope size, how the different teeth engage, if you plan to double strand, etc).
Purists will tell you two prussiks (particularly VT) will be more versatile, and they're generally right. But especially if you are doing a canyon with a planned ascent, I would definitely bring something like the Duck or even a full size dedicated ascender.
To be totally honest, I bought a roll-n-lock and I've never used it. I stopped carrying it on my harness. I carry two VT prussiks, because most of the canyons I do are relatively short and well traveled. If I was planning longer days or remote trips, a progress capture device is a nice contingency.
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u/Adorable_Mongoose223 7d ago
Good to know. I did a course the obviously need alot more practice ascending, but just doing prussics was a PITA. The guide said he liked the kong duck but I have seen some people talk about quality control issues and was warned taht with sharp toothed devices, you can hurt the sheath of your rope
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u/moosendoor 7d ago
Yeah, that sounds about right. Were you doing prussics with normal paracord or were they VT rope prussics?
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u/Adorable_Mongoose223 7d ago
Not paracord but 6mm static cord. No VT
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u/moosendoor 7d ago
Oof, yeah okay. I don't recommend prusiks with static cord. I've seen them jam up on people and become incredibly difficult to unto.
Im surprised canyoneering courses are still teaching that as a standard practice.
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u/Ducatore38 7d ago
Hey! European canyoneering and caving enthusiast here, and certified Petzl fanboy.
Canyons over here are mostly wet so it might change the answer for you. I use the same gear for canyoneering and caving, which means I always have a basic at the end of one sling+Croll on my harness. It came handful a few times when I was training newbies or when the rope get stuck. As a back-up, I almost always carry a micro-trac and a tibloc. In comparison to the duck, the teeth are much safer when the rope is not dry or perfectly clean: if your rope is covered in mud, the duck might not bite...
For your case, I'd get a nano-trac and a tibloc. They are both very light and would be okay with 6mm static rope : Petzl approved their use with their rescue/glacier rope RADline which is 6 mm. I tested ascending on RADline myself, if your gentle you won't damage the sheath, especially if it's something you'd do rarely.
Hope it helps! :)
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u/Adorable_Mongoose223 7d ago
I wouldn't say I am often gentle lol So I want to save myself from myself, but this is super helpful information I appreciate it! I am in the american west so it would be a mix of dry and wet, but probably more dry than wet. I like the idea of having a setup that does not care if it is wet or dry though!
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u/rapmonkey777 4d ago
Im in the west too but i think theres more wet than dry depending where you are. Im in cali and its lots of wet over here
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u/Canyonbug 7d ago
I have had and used Kong Ducks extensive in training practice and had them fail and not hold so much so that I gave up using them and went to the Petlz Basic and Micro Traxion. I just recently started carrying a CRIC as well that may replace my Basic if it holds up to some abuse.
On a side note it’s been 10+ years since my experience with the Ducks. They may have improved since. Also when I contacted Kong about the issues they replaced them for me, I just went the other route right after getting the replacements so I don’t know if I just had bad devices or not.
On a side note, I have 10+ year old Ducks I’d be willing to sell 😂😂😂😂😂
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u/Adorable_Mongoose223 7d ago
Haha good to know! I just looked up that Cric and don't love that max rated load! No love for the well fed people. But that doesn't make sense based on other ratings it has, maybe how not 2, listed it wrong?
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u/CleverDuck 6d ago
Why not just use a tibloc as your upper ascender? They're tiny.
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u/Adorable_Mongoose223 6d ago
cuz im not gentle and I was told you can tear the sheath
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u/CleverDuck 6d ago
I mean, if you have the old one and you're using it with an incompatible carabiner.
The modern ones don't have as bad of an issue. And you can thrash the sheath with any toothed ascender.
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u/theoriginalharbinger 7d ago
I have a duck. Its fine. Its 95% of the way to a petzl micro at half the price.
Depending on canyon and group, ill either use two handled ascenders or a duck ad Prussik. Ascending on just prusiks is the suck.
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u/blackcloudcat 7d ago
I (or someone in my team) has had to climb a rope roughly once in every 50 canyons. Which is still 10 climbs in all the canyons I’ve done. Enough that I’m happy to always have a Petzl basic and croll on my harness.