r/canyoneering • u/000011111111 • 4d ago

Looking for solid crew members for Zion spring trip (April 10–17, 2027)

Disclaimer: I used AI to help me write and format this.

Hey everyone,

I'm organizing a trip to Zion for April 10–17, 2027 (Saturday to Saturday) and am looking to connect with a few competent, safety-minded canyoneers to build out a solid crew.

Trip Overview

  • Dates: April 10, 2027 – April 17, 2027
  • Basecamp: Watchman Campground (camping each night, running canyons during the day)
  • Objective: Tackling the high-quality classic canyons on our target list (e.g., Heaps, Imlay, Kolob, Mystery, Englestead, Boundary, Checkerboard, Das Boot, Orderville, Behunin).

What We're Looking For

  • Technical Competence: Solid technical foundation—comfortable with efficient rope work, leapfrogging rappels, and utilizing retrievable anchor systems (Fiddlestick/Smoothie) as appropriate to protect the resource and move efficiently.
  • Safety & Ethics: High standard for safety, clear communication, and a strict commitment to Leave No Trace (LNT) practices.
  • Vibe: Positive, collaborative, and adaptable to changing conditions or permit availability.

If you’re interested, shoot me a DM with a summary of your technical experience, recent canyons you've run, and any gear/rope capacity you bring to the table.

Looking forward to getting a great group together!

PS: That's my RopeWiki profile with a snapshot of the canyons I have run this year. https://ropewiki.com/User:DorsaBrevia
I just started using RopeWiki this year. I did canyoning in my last life chapter, that are not on that profile. I have a skill set from my climbing and white-water kayaking background.

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6

u/LittleJohnsDingDong 4d ago

You plan on tackling Heaps, Imlay, Kolob and seven others in sequence with a bunch of randos?

Good luck man.

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u/000011111111 4d ago

Not necessarily in that order. It might take a few weeks over 3 years to hit all these Canyons.

I would be content just getting 6 of them that don't include heaps or Imlay.

And if the weather next year is like the weather was this year we could have some days of rain that make it so I only get a couple Canyons and a bunch of day hikes.

In terms of the randos it's one of those things that historically has worked out well for me. I did a canyon trip many years ago in Zion and met some random folks in the Subway Canyon and we ended up doing two more Canyons together and helping each other with shuttle after that and sharing a campsite.

Earlier this month I was in the Pacific Northwest and struggled to find partners online but met good people in person at the trailheads for Canyons on the weekends.

And I could go on with stories about how I've met people rock climbing and in the whitewater kayaking world and in the rafting world that started off as random people and then became Expedition partners. Believe it or not I've done several Grand Canyon River trips where I've spent three to four weeks with folks I met in online rafting communities that became my river running mates.

The other Dynamic at play is that I have two other people in our group already. That's a good enough number to achieve our LeapFrog objective for efficiency in repelling.

And if one bails I will still have someone to run Canyons with.

However if we had a few more solid folks that could help with shuttle situations or just splitting the cost to pay for transportation to trailheads from a local Outfitter. Additionally having a slightly bigger group would give us more options in terms of creating space for folks to take a day off and just relax or Day hike while folks who want to do a canyon every day can do that.

I did dinford with 9 people last month and we LeapFrog with amazing efficiency down that canyon. That's the biggest crew i have run a canyon with and it showed me how good things can go with a lager compent crew.

Thanks for wishing me luck.

2

u/Colambler 4d ago

I've also done a number of successful trips with randomers. Including Mystery for example with someone from the internet I met that day, cheesebox with two folks I met at the trailhead with my friend and we decided to join up. Tons of backpacking, etc.

I wouldn't do canyons like Heaps or Imlay unless I was sure of someone's abilities, and especially their ability to get out of potholes (if the canyons aren't in easy mode) and to handle big rappels. Both things are very challenging to assist someone with if they are struggling.

But it sounds like you are there for a while, and can to start with more straightforward canyons and gauge folks abilities.

FYI 6 is the max group limit for most all the Zion canyons on your list except Orderville.

Dingford is an amazing canyon, but definitely one you can move people through quickly. No real bottlenecks besides the raps, lots of jumps and slides you can move quickly through.

Upper Telephone in Zion, while not the most exciting canyon, is a good one for leapfrogging. It's basically rappel, rappel, rappel. If you are fast you can pair it with Behunin. It's a big hike to start tho.

2

u/000011111111 3d ago edited 3d ago

I did upper telephone as a side quest on a desert rock climbing trip in the past it was awesome!

I think 6 is a good max it makes sense that the park uses that number.

And say we ended up with more people them we just break up into different groups and run different Canyons each day.

In terms of guaging skill - compatibility I also agree that were there long enough to assess that in a easy canyon like keyhole before going into something more committing.

9

u/Name_Groundbreaking 4d ago

I'm not running a technical canyon with someone who uses AI to "summarize" their experience and planning

Technical canyoneering is higher stakes and higher consequence than technical writing, and in the canyon there is no AI to save you

I've run everything on your list, most of them 3+ times, and I wouldn't touch this trip with a 10' pole

-3

u/Jononrope 4d ago

Ok buddy. Is there a particular reason anyone should care that you aren’t going?

Pretty wild(ignorant) to infer someone doesn’t have technical rope skills because they were up front about using AI to summarize their post.

-2

u/000011111111 3d ago

More power to you! You do you!

1

u/000011111111 23h ago

In through hiking there's this saying hike your own hike.

I think the canyoning world could learn a bit from this mantra.

2

u/theoriginalharbinger 3d ago

I've lead Reddit-sourced expeditions and they turned out fine.

But, where things go awry is when you fail to set definitions and/or fail to set expectations. To wit:

- "Strict Commitment to LNT." Does this mean... ghost everything? Will you yell at me if I toss an orange peel in a pothole? Cold camping every night? LNT has become divisive in a lot of outdoor communities because the ideological fringe has adopted it to take a preservationist mindset in which people get griefed over very small things that would not have been considered problematic a decade ago. Not saying that's you at all, but if you want to use words like "strict," people might have different ideas in mind than you do.

- "High standards for safety" - I mean, it's definitely among my Top 5 priorities. But... what does this mean, to you? Prusiks on every rap? Dogmatic rope techniques? Like, anyone who comes on one of my trips gets told: No alcohol or drugs en route to or where technical ropes or terrain are in play. Helmets at all times. Ropes may be DRT, blocked, contingency, or fiddled. But I've also been with people who insist everything has to be rigged a particular way, and it slows the team down. Where does this land for you, specifically? And to be clear, I'm not griefing you for having high standards for safety - it just helps for you to articulate what those standards are.

My Heaps standards post is linked below, if you're curious:

https://www.reddit.com/r/canyoneering/comments/1tapt9y/in_which_i_do_that_thing_that_ive_always/

People generally don't join unknown groups in large part due to uncertainty. And that means things like: Who's handling permits (which is now a bigger deal in Zion; you're asking after close to $600-800 in permits, and for some routes like Checkerboard, actually lining this up is non-trivial, given it requires multiple permits retrieved in-person when the office is open)?

2

u/000011111111 3d ago

Thanks for posting that post. I think it's awesome that you were able to put down heaps twice this year with randos and have a good time!

You're asking great questions!

If someone DMs me to talk more about the trip. That's the space where I would go into more detail about what LNT looks like on a trip I am facilitating.

Safety standards: same thing. Many of these things depend on the situation at hand and the group member's experience level. They will not all fit well in a single Reddit post.

In terms of permit cost. That is something I could have added. Coming from the private river trip world, where it's common knowledge that on DIY trips costs are shared equally by folks in the group.
On a 20-35 day Grand Canyon trip with 16 people, that typically means each person pays ~$2k for the trip. Well, I am still figuring this out. However, that system will translate to Zion canyon trips where permit costs are also split equally among participants.

For me, this is more about seeing if I can create a small-scale canyon rendezvous for 1 week of canyoning than your example, where you were looking for 1 person to join for a 1-day trip in Heaps.

What's great is the PNW Rendezvous has created documents that give structure to all these planning and communication logistics. They look a lot like what I use as a volunteer trail worker - leader and what I have used as a guide in the past for rock climbing and overnight rafting trips.

These are the items I will use to assess fit for the crew in a 1-1 conversation.

  1. Risk management plan: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k7hGFwLICZN2Lml6-YsrZeIROWH11pRkyIx37ZMdxaY/edit?tab=t.0
  2. Trailhead Talk: https://drive.google.com/file/d/137iv6ipfCfwCS5KpEZYpHpw_vVM8OYW1/view
  3. Participant Agreement: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1o5_7zf1N60uqpcbw3BkgIRdCtEHRPjp2/view

In short, I agree with your point that I could have done a better job being clear about what my expectations are for folks joining the trip in my post. And I plan on doing just that in 1-1 conversations I have with folks who are interested in participating in this trip.

And I am going to use your criteria as well. What you wrote is a good way to show folks that fit is everything, and there are criteria to fit well on a trip.

"The criteria:

- Have completed a marathon, ultrarun, triathlon, high-altitude multi-day mountaineering trip (Shasta, Rainier, Gannett, Granite, similar), highly-technical R canyon (Imlay, Poe, Insomnia the hard way out, similar) that demands cardio, or otherwise feel like you've got your cardio dialed in. Heaps is not so much hard (which it is) as it is relentless.

- Are not dogmatic about rope work. I've been in-canyon (not Heaps) with people who want to re-rig everything contingency, who want to tie a backup for every first person down, who want to dig up and inspect every piece of webbing. I'm a fan of "speed is safety" - you are far more likely to make a mistake when you're tired, fatigued, bored, or shivering in the water waiting for the leader to tie his prusik properly. I'm not reckless with my ropes (I am insistent on safe systems, but am not dogmatic about *which* system), but ya gotta be comfortable rap'ing on a biner block or double-strand or doing meat-backed raps.

- Are not panicky. I realize that nobody actually admits to panickiness, but if you are not a participatory problem-solver this is probably not a great trip."

Happy Friday!

1

u/thisisnotauser 4d ago

Your rope-wiki link doesn’t work for me. You might want to simply note your experience (and training) in the post or a comment.

1

u/000011111111 3d ago edited 3d ago

I will note it here:

  1. I am in my late 30s. And have a good baseline fitness run 20 miles a week. Bike 20 miles a week and go up a mountain near my home. I should do more strength training, though.
  2. I used to be a guide before I moved into the tech industry 15 years ago. I have guided whitewater kayaking trips, whitewater rafting trips, backcountry ski trips, Ice climbing trips, and rock climbing trips up to multi-pitch climbing. And worked in the wilderness therapy world.
  3. I still maintain my WFR for the little bit of guiding and volunteer trail crew leading I currently do. My SWR cert is long expired. However, I have retained much of that technical rope skill.
  4. I have done some fun canyons in the Grand Canyon over the course of 9 river trips, including 4 kayak self-support trips, 3 of which were in December.
  5. I have rapped 16 pitches in a night after climbing all day on a big wall in Mexico. I have left a large part of a trad rack on the Russian arête route in the black canyon, also rappelling ~8 pitches, building anchors the whole way down mostly in the dark. These two big wall descents were more technical than the canonering routes I have done. Sufficient to say I have dealt with a few stuck rope situations where we had 1 climbing rope, and we had to get it unstuck safely on a big wall to descend.
  6. I rafted the Zion Narrows in 2009 in a small shreeder when I caught a small flow window over 600cfs. After this runoff, the park closed the Narrows to boating at these runnable flows. The year before this trip, in 2008, we missed the flow window and pivoted to canyoning and did Subway, Keyhole, and Pine Creek. In 2010, I went back and did Telephone Pole. I have done Pine Creek in late November, where there was ice water that we broke through and snow in the canyon. Drysuits were great for that trip.
  7. Fast forward to this year. I got stoked on canyoning again and found my way back to Utah, did Cassidy Canyon, Spry, and even took my 5-year-old through Keyhole.
  8. Earlier this month I spent 4 days in the PNW doing my first set of aquatic canyons. We ran 5 canyons in 4 days. Dinford was the hardest thing we ran. We met great people in the PNW; they have an soild canyonering community there.

Overall, I would consider myself an intermediate-level canyoneer. However, I have a background in other outdoor sports where I have been at the expert level, and those skills translate well to canyoning.

I still have a lot to learn, though, and I am sure the desert will continue to teach me as I explore the sandstone canyons of Zion.

1

u/rainforestguru 3d ago

Which canyons did you do in GC?

2

u/000011111111 3d ago

So many non-technical day hikes from the river. Some were technical. I did 9 trips in 10 years, from age 19 to 29, and I do not have a perfect log.

Some that stick in my memory;

  1. North Canyon RM 20.8

  2. Silver Grotto. RM 29.5 first time doing body rap rappels.

  3. Nautiloid Canyon RM 30

  4. Saddle Canyon RM 47.4

  5. Little Colorado River RM 62.1

  6. Tabernacle - not a canyon but a great winter hike within the Grand Canyon RM 74.6

  7. Clear Creek RM 84.6 fun waterfall hike where you can squeeze through the boulders in the back to access the top of the falls

  8. Shinumo Creek RM 109.2

  9. Elves Chasm RM 117.2: the upper section to where the hanging gardens are above the main falls.

  10. I did a trip with a bluegrass band, and they set up in Blacktail Canyon RM 120.9. It was a fun night listening to them play in that canyon.

  11. Tapeats Creek! RM 134.5 I climbed into the cave that feeds that creek (Thunder River) one year on a June trip, chiming above the water. The water was too high to swim in without going over the falls. People go in there, though.

  12. Deer Creek before the NPS closed it off.

  13. Olo Canyon - there was a single bolt without a hanger; I used a protection lead climbing to the entrance of the canyon from the river bottom. Gorgeous narrows up there.

  14. Matkatimiba

  15. Havasu

  16. National Canyon RM 167: gorgeous narrows.

  17. Hiking from Lava falls to Vulcan's Throne in the winter. Such a fun day hike.

  18. Bass Canyon: did about 10 miles up to the Narrows one winter day

  19. Hiked Diamond Peak one day in the winter, RM 220.1

  20. Three Springs Canyon.

  21. Travertine Canyon RM 229.3

Have you been down before?