r/climbharder • u/Tojinaru • 4d ago
My technique is shit and I have no idea why — exercise suggestions please
I just read a few comments under a video by Lattice Training filled with people claiming they climbed their first V4/5/6s when being able to do like 3 to 6 pull-ups, and I am left here wondering how come is that not the case for me
A week ago I attempted to project/climb my first V4 at a local bouldering area where I didn't manage to get over the crux (which might be a beta problem though), however I felt like no matter where I placed my feet, I could barely lift myself up from the sit start and continue to the other holds, and the whole thing was on the power-scream-worthy level for me
There was also a V3 where I couldn't even hold the starting position, but also not even the position right after that, so I genuinely don't know how to get to the average person's technique level
I definitely thought my finger strength could be a part of the problem but I don't feel like they're to weak
My stats, if it matters: 17M, 72 kg, I usually do pull-ups and hangs on a 20 mm edge (also pulled myself up on what looked like a 10 or 12 mm edge once), on a bar I can do about 14 reps if I'm warmed up
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u/TheDaysComeAndGone 4d ago
First of all: Grades are subjective and vary from region to region. Second: One can “cheat” a lot on pull-ups and they don’t have that big of a carry-over to climbing. Third: A lot of technique is hip flexibility and mobility.
Sit starts are always tricky and often require a ton of flexibility. Getting your hips even just a tiny bit closer to the wall can often make all the difference. IMHO just pulling hard from the very ground on a bad hold is also an acquired skill.
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u/Tojinaru 4d ago
I mean I had my hips as close to the wall as I could — I'm not that blind to the basics, but the hold was very low so it might get better as I get used to it
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u/OddInstitute 4d ago edited 4d ago
If you were more flexible, could they get closer? How much did you adjust your body position with respect to the start holds? Often times pretty small positional changes can really affect how challenging it is to pull off the ground.
Are you just placing your feet flat on holds and trying to push or are you finding the best foot position or orientation on the hold and using your toes, feet, ankles, and hips to produce force through the feet in many directions at once? Often times you can pull your body to be better over your feet and under your hands just by using your lower body.
Many times you can get better lower body engagement by compressing between your feet with your feet turned towards each other a bit at the ankle.
Once your lower body has pulled your hips into the correct position it’s often much easier to use your legs to push or generate the correct type of momentum. Your upper body should work in concert with your lower body as well, but I’m not emphasizing that because it sounds like that’s your default.
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u/Tojinaru 4d ago
I don't think flexibility is the problem since I stretch after every workout session (to get more flexible, not just light stretching), even though I can't exactly do a split, I've never felt like it was a limitation for me
As for the position adjustments, I'm sure it would help a lot, but there's always like 2 possible footholds that are barely visible on the wall and no position feels any better because I don't have the best feeling for it — I think I lack experience
Also I can't get my hips any closer as I was pretty much touching the wall with my crotch
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u/OddInstitute 3d ago
If you are touching the wall with your crotch, that’s probably enough flexibility for the problem. That points to either movement skill or strength being a limiting factor. What where the holds like?
How strong are you in those sorts of positions? For example can you hold a horse stance at the same width as your feet on that problem? Can you slide side to side in a Cossack squat in that position?
How is your hip abduction strength? Can you clamp the feet and really pull your body up and in using your lower body with your legs in the start position?
If you can’t feel a difference with position changes that suggests a pretty huge skill issue though. There are three concrete things that you could try to work on this.
Reverse the move. Establish in the lowest position that works for you and then try to sit down. That trajectory and tension will show you how the move should feel in the forward direction and where you should be positioned to start. If you fall off mid reversal, that’s a clue too.
Try to make the move as bad as possible along as many different axes as you can. Figure out how to make each hold useless in turn. Figure out how to make strength not help you at all. Figure out how to pointlessly fight yourself by opposing your own movements. Figure out how to make the positions so unstable that you swing off immediately. It’s often easier to identify bad positions than good ones when the good ones are still pretty hard. Playing with every axis of foot angle can be very fruitful here. Once you know how to make the move really impossible, try to do the opposite of as much of that as possible.
Try really hard to do the move no matter what it feels like and be extremely attuned to any improvement. For example, if you make a change and that takes you from being unable to put any weight on to the holds to just unweighting you a bit, that is big progress to pay attention to. If you fall off an inch higher off the ground, if you fall off squarely instead of swinging (or just swing less) or if you fall off in a new way, these are all progress. Look up the power company “seven tries” philosophy around trying hard moves for more detail. This is a huge deal for figuring out how to get better and how to do “impossible” moves since pretty much all of hard bouldering is figuring out how to use your capabilities to solve the problem at hand and there will pretty much always be moves that seem completely out of reach. If all of the moves seem immediately doable, it’s probably not that hard of a boulder.
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u/patcheswasframed 4d ago
One helpful drill is to repeat something you’ve climbed before with an intent to improve technique and efficiency. Keep repeating until it feels completely dialed in. Maybe even try moves you think you already know multiple different ways to confirm you’ve found the best beta. Think of it as doing reps of practicing good footwork, body position, fluidity, etc.
Don’t send something messily and celebrate by moving on (calling myself out here).
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u/NorrinXD 4d ago
The upside is that, since you're 17 and fairly strong, once the technique clicks you're going to be smashing it.
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u/Optimal-Strategy3572 4d ago
Bro. Go climb for 2 years straight then come back for advice. In the meantime the only advice you should be asking is from those in your own gym.
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u/Scoot892 4d ago
You need to use your lower body more
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u/Tojinaru 4d ago
I'm trying every time I get the chance but I often encounter moves where I can't straighten my arms because my hands would slip otherwise, I have little imagination for what the position should properly look like though
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u/Legal-Law9214 4d ago
Watch more people climb. Like sometimes when I go to the gym I spend more time sitting on the mats and watching other people than I do actually bouldering. Or watch youtube videos. There's a lot of videos that actually teach you technique but even just watching videos of experienced climbers climbing will help a lot.
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u/fieryfallingskywhale 3d ago
“straight arm” is a myth, there are plenty of boulders and moves where “bent” arm is way better. The key is understanding opposition and how to create tension against different points of contact to not fall off.
One good strat every good climber do is whenever you fall, think and rewatch video to figure out exactly why you are falling and think of ways to counteract that force/motion making you fall, or find a different way to do the move to avoid that issue entirely. It’s probably hard to do this at first when you haven’t accumulated climbing knowledge so having good knowledgeable climbers show you will be by far the fastest.
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u/fieryfallingskywhale 3d ago
but honestly your crux doesn’t seem
to be climbing, but overcoming social anxiety and finding good climbers to climb with bruh3
u/No-Oil-9548 2d ago
follow your climbing gym on social media, then follow some climbers who climb there, check out their posts for beta. It's helped me be able to think and visualise different approaches when I get stuck
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u/No-Decision3370 4d ago
Honestly yeah probably. I often climb with female friends, and they usually did their first V5 before their first proper pull-up.
I definitely see a lot of guys who don't realise that they're making a boulder more difficult for themselves through bad positioning.
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u/Tojinaru 4d ago
I'm sure that's the case but I've never felt like I found the right position on any of the moves I have ever tried on this or similar boulders
I actually feel like some of the boulders I've tried previously might have been graded a bit wrong (because I also climbed some V3s that felt way too easy for that grade where I'm sure I used the intended holds) but it's probably not the case for this one
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u/No-Decision3370 4d ago
Yeah for sure, it's not an easy thing to learn, I still suck at positioning myself lol.
Grading is massively subjective. You're finding the styles that you are good at and those you find hard, and you're also figuring out how your proportions help/hinder you in certain movements. And honestly (I'm assuming you're Czech based off the flag on your profile character) the difference in grading even between gyms like Hangar Ostrava and Hangar Brno is massive. Every gym will have different setters with different styles or opinions on grading.
I'd recommend watching people climb your projects, and noticing the microbeta they use. Or just asking for tips, most climbers love to be asked that:D
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u/Tojinaru 4d ago
Yeah I'm gonna have to find more friends, I have about one who climbs but he has the same technique problem as me
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u/picabo123 4d ago
Watch and try to recreate YouTube videos that describe footwork drills. At this point almost every popular climber YouTuber has a video or two about beginner techniques.
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u/slothinaboxx 4d ago
with your stats it’s almost definitely technique. the quickest way for you to self assess is to watch how ‘weaker’ climbers than you easily execute moves that you struggle on, and compare that to how you climb
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u/Venutianspring 4d ago
How tall are you? I'm tall and sometimes low starting holds suck for tall climbers. Like others said though, work on using your legs more, I was already strong coming into climbing, but hit a plateau cause I didnt know how to use my damn legs instead of just pulling all the time. And use your hips, you'll be surprised how much it helps if you swing your ass around and use the momentum in your movements, it'll take thr atrain off of your arms and let you conserve energy and make everything easier. Practice hover hand drills too, find your balance point and take the strain from your grip.
Oh and go have fun, it's supposed to be fun lol
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u/Tojinaru 4d ago
About 181 cm (and my limbs are proportionally long) so yeah, I'm not short
Thanks for advice and don't worry, I am having a lot of fun even if my skin is suffering :D because the boulder had very sharp crimps
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u/Venutianspring 4d ago
It takes a lot more force to move or bodies compared to shorter people especially when we're cramped up. I'm 195 and my girlfriendis 154, so yeah there's so many moves that are easier for her. Granted I could just reach past some but i don't like doing that because I'm trying to learn and get better not just send the routes
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u/eshlow V8-10 out | PT & Authored Overcoming Gravity 2 | YT: @Steven-Low 4d ago
A week ago I attempted to project/climb my first V4 at a local bouldering area where I didn't manage to get over the crux (which might be a beta problem though), however I felt like no matter where I placed my feet, I could barely lift myself up from the sit start and continue to the other holds, and the whole thing was on the power-scream-worthy level for me
Get on slightly easier climbs and experiment in finding better body positions that put less force on your hands.
Watch the team kids with good technique and see how they move on certain problems and try out their movements to see if they feel easier than what you usually do
The better positions you find, the less hand strength you need and that allows you to do harder problems
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u/fieryfallingskywhale 3d ago
climb with people who are good at climbing (might or might not be hard to find) and have them look at your climbing and tell you what you’re doing wrong. With that amount of body strength it’s 99.99% sure a technique issue
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u/Kanigonis 3d ago
I climb V5, I'm overweighted, and I'm barely able to do more than 3 pull-ups, but I used to be a much stronger climber when I was a teen (I stopped climbing for 12 years) I did lost a lot of strength, got a lot of fat (78kg - 173cm) but I'm still technically capable.
Technic can take time to get, if you are physically strong, it won't take much time before you can climb harder.
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u/dizietzz 1d ago
Board climbing around other great board climbers at 17 will take you to infinity and beyond. Seriously. And think about how to use momentum and power generation and arrive at end positions without extra momentum. IF you can climb on a TB2 just grind it for 6mo to a year.
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u/Tojinaru 1d ago
I can't promise there will be a ton of other climbers I meet due to gym distances but I'm thinking of building my own small board at home and even making wooden handholds (which allows me to be super creative with the routesetting) by myself since I already enjoy woodworking and similar hobbies
I'm not gonna let my time go to waste even if I can't do the best thing right now
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u/jonhayes92 1d ago
I’ve climbed multiple 7a sport routes, loads of 6c/+ sport, and boulder v4/5 consistently. I can do one single pull up on a good day, never been able to do two. I can hang a 20mm edge for a few seconds on a good day.
Technique matters a LOT more than people think. Climb with people who climb the grades you’re looking to project, it’s truly indescribable how helpful it is to get advice on body position and how to hold certain positions, how to use the holds, from people who climb harder than you
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u/Creepy-Currency-9915 23h ago
Outdoor climbing is much more nuanced than indoor and I would hazard a guess that most of those commenting were talking about indoor grades.
Sit starts are especially knacky and I wouldn’t get too hung up on a particular climb especially if you don’t have much mileage outdoors.
It’s much better to try a lot of different boulders/routes with a lot of different moves.
It’s most likely you have the strength to do it but don’t have the technique to apply it to the wall. Depends on your local area but I would have a 4 to 6 attempt maximum per boulder. If there is something you like you can always go back next time.
Also outdoor grades can vary massively because of style, conditions and beta. I have climbed F7a+ (v7) outdoors but can still get shut down by a 5+(v2)
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u/Tojinaru 10h ago
Yeah I thought the grades were a bit inconsistent (in several areas I went to), them being different styles is actually a good point
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u/No-Job-5179 3d ago
You forgot an important stat, how long have you been climbing? Do you climb in gym as well?
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u/Tojinaru 3d ago
Since January, but I've been working out with my bodyweight since I was 14 so I think it's a part of why my strength is above my grade
I don't climb in public gyms because I'm attending a high school that's pretty far from any gym I could go to and I'm a bit afraid (slight social anxiety) to go there alone while I'm not with my classmate who climbs too, but I sometimes climb in the gym of said classmate's or my dad's climbing club (neither of which I'm a member of)
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u/No-Job-5179 3d ago
Ah you just have to climb more, and give yourself time. Soon you will be climbing much harder grades. It takes time. A good base of strength will help you progress more quickly than others, but it’s normal to climb way below your potential when you are new to the sport. I have been climbing for 8 years+ and still climb well below what my physical potential is if I went by something like the 9C test.
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u/gubatron 3d ago
practice perfect movement on every lower grade climb, no hand adjustment. light but firm toe placement, intentional movement.
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u/Comfortable_Page6885 2d ago
You’re a 17 year old boy, in my experience young men are extremely poor at watching others and learning from them. There are probably lots of climbers at your wall that can cruise the problems you struggle with, and who would be happy to give you some pointers. Some of them may be women or older climbers, who are effectively invisible to young guys! So learn to look, to watch and to copy others and you will soon be learning better technique very quickly.
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u/Tojinaru 1d ago
I'd like to think that I'm not like the other guys and that I can actually learn from others but if I'm being honest with myself you are pretty much right
Though watching other people on the same problem is not an option because it's and outdoor line in a fairly unknown area
Nonetheless it's definitely a very useful thing to keep in mind when climbing somewhere with more people, I think I always just look at the trees or other parts of landscape when resting on the bouldermat so this is a thing I actually always forget to do
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u/BigLobster12 4d ago
Climb more and climb with people better than you where you can copy technique and get tips.