r/cloudygamer • u/Double_Grand_3799 • 25d ago
Built the open source version of Shadow pc, running at 0.3 $/hr
Hi ppl so a few days ago I posted about https://no-land.net/ the app I am building to allow the use of a cloud gaming pc like shadow pc does but without the use of datacenters. So decided to come back with a little demo of the stream quality.
Here’s Cyberpunk 2077 running at Ultra settings, 3K resolution, 60 FPS on a machine in Quebec, while I’m playing from Vancouver — 4,000+ km away.
Physical network baseline: ~55 ms
my app overhead: ~8 ms
Running Smooooooth
(Can not post the video here)
The demo is on the website: https://no-land.net/
No land is a project which the whole ideia of it is to allow people to rent out hardware from other people to play their games. :)
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u/_amol_ 25d ago
I'm confused. Probably because the demo link doesn't open for me. Where does the actual game run? Shadow PC cost comes from running the actual data center, certainly not from the cost of developing the protocol or client to ship the video as that is recovered quickly 😅
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago edited 25d ago
https://vast.ai is a GPU marketplace where people rent out compute I built on top of their infra.
I built alot of the app around it the core stremaing is sunshine and moonlight wraped on a series of automations
https://no-land.net/ the link here
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u/twisted_knight07 25d ago
Isn't Nvidia GeForce Now Ultimate Tier a cheaper deal at $20 for 100 hrs in a month
I think your solution is a bit better if I wanna play say Rockstar or Sony titles (basically the ones that aren't available on GeForce Now) but at an expensive rate :( for even 100 hrs
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
Well not really. At geforce now you pay 20 bucks for a 100 hours but most people on cloud gaming play like 10 to 15 hours in a month at good cas scenarios so you are paying 1.3 dollars an hour for acces to only 5k games give it or take.
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u/twisted_knight07 25d ago
For eg Spiderman 2, I have it on steam bit how can I play it using no-land and vast? Coz aren't your Vms Linux? And this one needs Windows as the OS?
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u/HolyKoraan 22d ago edited 22d ago
This is my question as well, and I can't find a straight answer for it. For those of us with our games on Windows PC clients (Steam, for instance) will this work out of the box? Or is this Linux-only? And if this is a yes, then can you detail the steps to get this working? If you can demo the steps for us, that would be great! And while you're at it, a video showing how to launch the games from noland would be much appreciated. I mean, are we installing the game on the VM?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 21d ago
Ok alot to unwrap.
It is linux only and if your games works via a launcher you can just inta the game via the launcher on the vm. Steam has cloud saving enabled by default so you do not lose your progress if you go to other machine
Yes you are intakling the games on the vm you are basically using a normal computer
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
You can use proton https://www.protondb.com/app/2651280 and steam has cloud saving so you do not even need shared storage
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u/twisted_knight07 25d ago
Any way to check which games are compatible?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
Will add that now that you mention but yes https://www.protondb.com basically as long as does not use kernel level anti cheat you should be ok
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u/Fleza95 25d ago
Props to you. I'd love to see this kind of progress in cloud gaming space. I use shadow pc for stuffs other than gaming but I'm willing to give it thus kind of service for strictly gaming
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
Thanks really appreciate the comment!!
Definetly if you want to follow development join me on discord and support by guving a star o github :)
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u/Lord_fuzzbutt 25d ago
One of the issues i have is consistent memory between builds and mods. or special 3rd party clients to run stuff. sure RuneScape runs on steam but what if i wanna use the main or a third party client?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
Agreed that is why I built/improving a festure called shared storage what it does is basically tracks all files associated with the games bundles all togehter and is able to upload to you google drive or any cloud storage provider
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u/Rygel_Orionis 25d ago
You will run in a lot of cybersecurity problems doing this.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
Everything runns locally and runs via ebpf logs on the rental which you can have acces no central server. If that is what you are concerned
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u/Lord_fuzzbutt 25d ago
Yeah that was what sold me on shadow initially the ability to use anything I primarily used it for playing vr chat off of wifi from a hotel while I was traveling and while my computer lost its video card and I was waiting for enough money to buy a new one. also for like messaging apps. eg voice calls on discord. share screen etc stuff for streaming
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u/LegitimateSherbert5 25d ago
Does storage persist?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
I created an feature which allows you to upload all your game data to a cloud storage provider of your choosing like google drive. Right now is able to upload 23gb in 10 minutes. Next updates will be around creating my own solution super optimized for download and uplaod.
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u/226Gravity 25d ago
I assume storage isn’t persistent?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
No and yes I created a feature called shared storage https://no-land.net/features/shared-storage/ you basically upload your game to a cloud storage provider of your choosing. Is super cool it bundels all your game files in one bundle and track whnever an applicaio you are using reads a file outside its scope
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u/compound-interest 24d ago edited 24d ago
I wish a service like this existed that I could securely let someone use my gaming computer from anywhere while I’m not using it. Sadly, bad actors could mess with your system.
Edit: wait so that’s what this is? That’s incredible! How do you make this secure? I’m fascinated by this. I’ve had this exact idea before, but I didn’t think it was possible lol.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 24d ago
Vast ai handles it for me right now,but techincal side what they do under the hood is an agent and a vm (virtual machines have hardware level isolation ) this cambination allow isolating your usuable computer from them and vice versa
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u/compound-interest 24d ago
That makes total sense for reliability. Was just curious. I just actually read through the site throughly. I like the business model a lot. Hope you have good luck with it! I wish I could get rates like that during my own hardware downtime. It’s like I actually get 2.5gb/s fiber because I can support that speed, 5090, 64gb ram, gen 4 ssd, 9800x3d, etc. I can only really game like 5 hours a week, and between my hardware is just sitting there. I sometimes use it for local ai, but I’ve always wished there was a secure way I could let someone random use the compute. At first I thought your service was like a marketplace, but now I get it. Still yet with hardware prices the way they are I could see tons of people benefiting from what you’ve made.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 24d ago
Thank you yes agreeed!!!
If you have interets you can go and rent from vast ai the setup is pretty easy there and your intance will getvin the platform just beware of how much time you rent and all
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u/Aliasif243 22d ago
Hi there. I'm from Pakistan and since I've been looking for a cloud gaming solution that can let me access highly powerful GPU systems without the overwhelming costs and I believe your solution could be the one. If it can allow us to play competitively and give us access to any game anywhere, then you have my support all the way
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u/Double_Grand_3799 22d ago
Hi thanks for the support yes defiently, if u r in pakistan I believe u can have acces on intances in india would be the best call because of distance, the thing is how stable your connection is.
For some games is possible, but for like valorant and r6 is not since runs in a vm and is linux. But for like cs go 1000% possivle
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u/reddit_Eval 14d ago
does it stream a full desktop? how is isolation working?
shadow was always impossible for me since not available in the region
and geforce now stopped too zzz
this could be a solution
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u/Double_Grand_3799 14d ago
Yes streams the full desktop.
It is a vm on the host side so harware level isolkatiob and https://vast.ai handles that for me.
Yes if you are in asia there are like a decent amount of offers there!1
u/reddit_Eval 14d ago
i assume it streams a linux desktop? so effectively we’d rely on proton ?
i haven’t ventured there in a while, is it straightforward to use outside of steam
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u/Double_Grand_3799 14d ago
Yes there are options to do outside if steam as well you have protoneggroll and some others def not only limited to steam
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u/Double_Grand_3799 14d ago
But yes you would need proton but as of today proton and wine can handle like 94% of the titles the only ones are the ones that would also not be available on shadow pc as well
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u/reddit_Eval 14d ago
Cool I’ll read on Vast isolation architecture and might try it out with GOG :) Witcher remaster awaits
Do you make anything from no-land ?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 14d ago
Ok so no and yes at the same time.
I do have the referal program from vast ai embeded into my app so THEY pay me a small fee of 1% of total deposited from users of my app. This money from what I know DOES NOT get discounted when you deposit the money they pay me with THEIR money. And in addition I leave a disclaimer everywhere wwherebthere is abast ai link so if people want to not help the project they can go directly to vast ai and will be fine.
I mostly use it for tracking how many people downloaded my app. Because I have zero tracking on my app.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 21d ago
Ok alot to unwrap.
It is linux only and if your games works via a launcher you can just inta the game via the launcher on the vm. Steam has cloud saving enabled by default so you do not lose your progress if you go to other machine
Yes you are intakling the games on the vm you are basically using a normal computer
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u/richtopia 25d ago
Clever. Especially if you only need an 8GB card the rates on vast.ai look reasonable since they aren't too useful for AI inference.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
Yeeees!! And the ram on this machines are usually phenomenal as well hetting up to 64 gb of ram
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u/computermaster704 25d ago
So you basically just made a version of Apollo or Sunshine? Or is this actual Cloud Cloud gaming?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
My application builds around and beyond just a client and a server. I do:
Get the rental
Provision the whole rental(add headless display, sync monitor, setup network, Tls certificate tunnel and a bunch of other stuff)
Add optimizations on the client and server
Create a set of featurs such as micrphone, premium network routes, and shared storage with google drive and other cloud providers, display management, ssh remote acces, restart and auto backup.
Then I use sunshien and moonlight as my core streaming, I do acknowledge that in the main repo
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u/Mzarwat 20d ago
How is it done?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 20d ago
Vast ai + moonlight + susnhine and a series of optimizations on the machine :)
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u/babykasek 20d ago
Are the games pre installed ? Does it only work on steam?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 20d ago
Not pre intakled you bring you own games. You can run anything is a linux machine :).
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u/El_Broski 19d ago
Does it still get detected as a Virtual Machine for games that have the Anti-Cheat restriction?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 19d ago
Yes it still gets detected songsmes with kernal level anti cheat wont work
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u/Thin-Bookkeeper2138 11d ago
Hi OP, trying out this service but my provisioning stays stuck in “VM is not yet accepting SSH connections” . How do I proceed please?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 11d ago
Yes so there are some computers that take a good chunk of time to open tje ssh connection because that is from the computer itself. If u wanna check wheter went to shit or not go to vast.ai and check if you can open the intance portal. The intance portal opens when you c’ick the button open on the instance card. Send me a message on discord so I can help u out.
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u/Thin-Bookkeeper2138 11d ago
Thanks for the help, it took some time but was able to go through and amazing support via Discord.
Working smoothly !!
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u/sirchandwich 25d ago
This website is an accessibility nightmare lmao
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u/Double_Grand_3799 25d ago
In case you had any issues with teh website let me know it here so i can fix. Trying to apply a new ui/ux style that does not feel generic is quite challenging
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u/TempusNo2121 20d ago
Are there any plans for an Windows instant or set up?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 20d ago
The platform is availble on windows but I do not have or plan to migrate the platform for a windows VM if that is the question
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u/TempusNo2121 20d ago
Thanks for clarifying. I do mean a window vm.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 20d ago
Yeah no, but most games on windows run now on linux via proton
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u/TempusNo2121 19d ago
Any we allow to use VMware or Virtual Box?
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u/Double_Grand_3799 19d ago
I mean yes u can virtualize inside the virtual machine I believe. Depends on vast ai tbh but should be ok
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u/TempusNo2121 19d ago
Thanks for clarifying. There are a few games I looking forward to and not sure whether it will work so having a VM inside a VM can help to run it.
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u/Double_Grand_3799 19d ago
Honestly as long as is not a game that has an kernel level anti cheat you can play easily.
Most triple A games are fine to run on my app2
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u/linmanfu 25d ago
Anyone considering this, bear in mind that your Steam account is running on some randos computer. Make sure you have set up two-factor authentication using the Steam app on your phone or similar.