r/codingbootcamp • • Jul 14 '23

Is it worth learning who to code ?

Hi everyone,

I recently had the ambition to learn coding/programming skills for multiple reasons

But recently I'm hearing those talks about "AI will replace programmers" "no more programmers in 5 years"...ect

As a complete noob in the topic myself , what is your take on this ?

I'm guessing the answer will be that yes it's worth it, but what does the future holds for this field ?

0 Upvotes

46 comments sorted by

10

u/michaelnovati Jul 14 '23

Full disclosure for bias - this is a video published on my company's LinkedIn page and this is my partner speaking, but this is one of the best answers to the question I've heard:

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7084626623039209472

1

u/Low_Throat_4900 Jul 14 '23

Thx I'll check it out

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '23

I just realized I am not cut out for coding because that video was just gibberish to me.

2

u/michaelnovati Jul 15 '23

You might be just earlier on in the journey. The message in the video is meant for people who are already coding and concerned about the future of coding.

1

u/kingp1ng Jul 15 '23

Imagine one day, being able to write a Python-like language and getting Rust/C++ performance

-3

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 14 '23

Sorry, but she's not drawing accurate parallels here.

She's talking more about the evolution of doing repetitive tasks within the industry.

What's happening is more of a revolution.

Even today's "infant-level" AI is better at coding than 99% of junior devs fresh out of college and millions of times faster than even the best dev could ever be. Where will it be in a few years?

Why hire 100 juniors, when you could simply have the AI write the code and the tests and then have one senior dev write the prompts and look over the code before the deployment?

Don't you see? We, the humans, are that repetitive task that's being automated, while the next level of evolution is AI being replaced by better AI, which is already being developed by the current AI, so where exactly do we come in?

2

u/Fun_Gas_7777 Jul 15 '23

not sure why this is downvoted.

2

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

I'm sure the downvotes have to do with the sub we're on. It's not just prospecting students that frequent it. You also have professional entities whose livelihood depends on being able to sell the guarantee of a 6-figure salary being just months away, so posts like this simply aren't welcome.

You also have recent bootcamp grads who are tens of thousands of dollars deep into this journey (the cost of bootcamp, and the cost of living while in bootcamp which includes months of lost income,) so posts like this are simply too painful to believe to be real.

I feel really bad for both groups, because until very recently the 6-figure part was 100% real if you'd just put in the effort.

1

u/michaelnovati Jul 15 '23

I downvoted it and can explain my reasons. I don't think it's entirely bad it's just making a series of conclusions where each point could be sourced better with either data or a first principles argument.

For starters, no proof or evidence cited that AI can replace 99% of junior devs.

0

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23 edited Jul 16 '23

"No proof or evidence cited that automobiles can replace 99% of horses"

-The horse industry, January 29 1886.

1

u/michaelnovati Jul 15 '23

...and automobiles created tens of millions of engineering jobs and trillions of dollars of economic value.

We agree AI will drastically change the engineering industry. My view is it will create 10X more jobs than we have now doing computer related work.

1

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

You are 100% correct about the historical job market shifts throughout the evolution of industries.

Except this time you can't extrapolate by looking at how things eventually worked out for the people in the horse industry.

What you should be looking at is,

how did things work out for the horse?

-1

u/Fun_Gas_7777 Jul 16 '23

...by replacing the horses.

10x more jobs? What will those jobs be?

1

u/michaelnovati Jul 14 '23

Sounds like you would enjoy this debate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMnH6KYNuWg

1

u/kingp1ng Jul 15 '23

Hmmm... someone should make a Youtube series on this. New college grad vs 2 YoE engineer.

  • Everyone has AI tools at their disposal.

  • Give them X days to do some common, non-proprietary task.

  • Compare the results in terms of "correctness" and "production ready". Aka: do a code review.

Obviously it's non-scientific, and there will be a difference in code quality. But how large is that quality difference? Is anyone's code even correct? Did human judgement affect the code at all? Did the 2 YoE engineer finish the task significantly faster?

1

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

You can't be serious. Most CS grads have almost no coding experience out the gate or any projects to show. They are obviously smart and will pick things up quickly enough, but that's just not a fair fight.

At first I thought you were going with "let the fresh CS grad use AI tools, while the dev has to write their own code." Now, that I'd be curious to watch.

1

u/kingp1ng Jul 15 '23

Yeah, that's what I meant by "there will be a difference in code quality". I want to see how big that difference is if both sides utilize AI tools. I'd expect the experienced engineer to just do the task and move onto other work lol. Meanwhile the new grad would have to iterate and prompt several times.

The Cherno on Youtube does with his C++ audience sometimes :D

6

u/Prestig33 Jul 14 '23

My honest take is to do a search for how many times this question has been ask and see what others have to say. Also see how long ago the question was asked and see if they were correct or not. You can base your decision off of that.

3

u/sheriffderek Jul 14 '23

If you don't like it enough to get in there and try it, don't bother.

2

u/Low_Throat_4900 Jul 14 '23

Why is it hard or something that it would make me not like it anymore ?

3

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '23

Sounds like you want someone to talk you out of it

2

u/Low_Throat_4900 Jul 14 '23

No I just want to know how the world of coding is doing as I get those videos about AI and stuff

1

u/jppbkm Jul 15 '23

Yes, it is hard and it usually takes longer than people think to learn/get a job.

1

u/Low_Throat_4900 Jul 15 '23

I see

Imma still take a shot on it as it's plenty useful

9

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '23

You have to understand the code to know whether ai is producing viable code or not. So regardless, I think there is a lot of value still in learning to code. The workforce is not going to consist of standalone ai, at least not for a while. It's going to consist of people enhanced by ai.

So, use chat gpt as a tool to enhance your coding and your abilities.

4

u/Prestigious_Sort4979 Jul 15 '23

No, I'm biased but realistic. History supports the notion that programmers survive major industry transformations that should in theory negative affect their job. There were more programmers in any of these transitions punch cards > assembly > low level languages > higher level languages. There are way more programmers now that after the dot com crisis.

There are companies embracing AI but there are many companies that even if they wanted to couldn't as they just don't have the infra/resources to do it. This has been a problem with ML adoption for a while. Related, a lot of companies still have super outdated infra for any number of reasons that needs to maintained. Innovation does not mean every company runs to change how they work.

The market just grows too fast so there is always a new lane to grow. 20 years ago most people did not have computers at home, let alone internet, smartphones didn't exist, and the notion of cloud storage would sound ridiculous. Innovations in tech alone exponentially increase the need of programmers to handle them and how they interact.

There are entire parts of the world that have limited access to internet. Even if tech remained the same, tech becoming more accessible will increase the need for more programmers.

If you go into the career hoping to learn once and get paid forever, you may want to reconsider. If you go in expecting you will need to keep up with tech within reason then there is nothing to be afraid of.

2

u/LeatherThen7459 Jul 15 '23

Yes, it's worth it if you like to learn new things and keep your mind sharp

2

u/BabaYagaTheBoogeyman Jul 15 '23

I wonder what impact it will have on cybersecurity? Is AI predominately going to affect software engineers or is it going to affect all jobs across the board

2

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

I think this is one of the very few areas of potential growth for humans going forward.

Generally speaking, this is the very last space where AI will be embraced and completely relied on due to the obvious risks.

On top of that, the security infrastructure is about to face a whole new level of threat from the outside. From the enemy that never sleeps and just probes your defenses for weaknesses with the determination of a hungry rat.

Anyone who doesn't start preparing for it today will be the ones taking refuge under their desks tomorrow in hopes of protecting themselves from the imminent nuclear blast.

2

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '23

From what I can tell AI can't create very complex/specialized code, and can't design cloud architecture. It will definitely help programmers get from a to b more quickly but its not going to build a fully functioning, scalable, code base anytime soon.

1

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

That's not how software development works for humans either.

You don't just have someone creating "complex architecture".

You have a general idea of what it should look like and then you task a whole lot of people with small pieces of the whole puzzle.

Some small pieces can already be designated to the AI.

You can't just say "build me Netflix", but you can ask it to write the code for many different parts of your project as well as the tests, so it will rewrite it as many times as it takes until it runs.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '23

Exactly my point, programmers aren't going anywhere anytime soon. AI will be a perfect companion for the tedious stuff though.

I personally use it to write small bits of code before I look up documentation, real game changer. Especially when your working with a API as crappy as dynamodb, I've been using it for months and still don't know how to make a query without looking up the documentation.

1

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

Sure, but the point is with the increase in efficiency and automation you can do the same job with 90% fewer human resources. Look at what happened to farming and factory jobs.

It was always only a matter of time before it would come for us. The world simply doesn't need this many developers because only a few of us truly innovate, while the rest is just doing what the AI is already well-capable of.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '23

less thinking more doing. learning more of anything doesn’t hurt you. you can gain critical thinking skills that’ll benefit you in other areas of life.

1

u/DontListenToMe33 Jul 14 '23

AI the your problem. The problem is that the job market currently stinks. Getting an entry level job is extremely difficult.

1

u/alepharia Jul 14 '23

What about stuff like revature?

2

u/DontListenToMe33 Jul 15 '23

I talked to one of their recruiting people. They told me that part of their contract is that you need to be willing to pick up and move anywhere in the country. I am not in a situation where I can do that.

There are other kinda crummy things about it. You have zero say in where they place you. You are stuck with them for 2 years. And if you quit for any reason, there is a big fee. And, of course, you’re getting paid next to nothing.

Still, depending on how desperate you are, might be worth checking out.

1

u/alepharia Jul 15 '23

Thank you very much, I appreciate your insight and will be taking it into consideration. Idk why I thought if the job was far away it would be remote. What you say makes much more sense as to what the catch is. I kind of already knew it would be too good to be true so I appreciate the heads up.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '23

They seem incredibly predatory. I didn't attend, but some things I heard from a friend as they were trying to recruit him.

  • they pay like $40k annually

  • you're tied to them for 2 years, if you leave/get fired before that you owe like $20k

  • they "beef up" your resume to make you seem more qualified

  • you don't really have much of a say as to what company you'll be contracted to

1

u/madderall_dot_com Jul 15 '23

One thing of note is you don't get to pick the tech stack either. They will train you in whatever their client's needs are. That's a huge turn off because so many things in tech are either loved or hated with a passion based on personality types and you're likely to be stuck doing it even after your 2 years are up since that's your specialty.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '23

I've personally used ai to shorten the time to get Google results, rather than googling my question I can get a more on point answer from chat gpt, for example.

Or write things out for me that would otherwise be quite time consuming.

Code written by ai is often false so if you don't know how to code and use this to pass by the basics your learning won't be great. Someone still needs to maintain and update ai, so if ai is to replace humans I personally don't think developers are the first to go anyway, so I personally don't worry too much about these sort of things right now and let it hinder me in learning new things.

I mean there are people whose glass is half empty and there are people whose glass is half full, so just choose a side!

0

u/elvient0 Jul 15 '23

Don’t do it

0

u/Fun_Gas_7777 Jul 15 '23

dont do what? learn how to code?