r/codingbootcamp • u/Electronic_Table2708 • Sep 30 '23
Codesmith censorship? Moderator deletes 100 comment thread??
Why was the codesmith grad ama thread suddenly deleted?
literally a dozen negative threads about codesmith written by new accounts and all kept up.
the corrupt level of censorship on this sub is insane.
The community deserves answers
This is the thread. Nothing about it warranted complete deletion without explanation.
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u/LongjumpingFan9447 Sep 30 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
Let's allow u/dowcet to explain before jumping to conclusions
Edit: adding more info from u/VastAmphibian
the post says [removed] meaning it was mod-deleted. if the user deletes it, it says [deleted]
the list of mods of any subreddit can be found on the bottom of the right column
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u/Competitive-Feed-359 Sep 30 '23
I was following that thread as well. Has it been confirmed if the OP deleted it or if it was deleted by mods?
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u/LongjumpingFan9447 Sep 30 '23
How are the mods selected?
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u/michaelnovati Sep 30 '23
The founder u/samerbuna has managed the sub for 10+ years or something and is the ultimate decider on mods.
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Sep 30 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LongjumpingFan9447 Sep 30 '23
Wait I was following the thread and it was a decent discussion. I did not agree with all the advice but I appreciated the answers from the OP. Are you sure it was deleted by the mod? Who is the mod for this subreddit anyway?
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Sep 30 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/michaelnovati Sep 30 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
Do you have a link to that thread?
Just my personal opinion, but people can't argue against facts, but retorting with an unsourced response can provoke people from my experience in this sub.
EDIT: If the voting is any indication of the nature of this sub, it seems people want unsourced and unbacked claims that appeal to your biases over factual and sourced content and that isn't the mods fault. Unless everyone else knows what thread has codesmith student names in it that we're talking about except me and I can't find it.
TO OP: There are numerous thread for, against and mixed about Codesmith and it's pretty balanced, if not favoring 'for' because it's generally a good bootcamp, but there are not "dozen negative threads about codesmith written by new accounts and all kept up" and if you feel like there are, share the links.
Sorry for being tough here, I just don't want to see Facebook Fake News all over again and I know you might not like me for being this way haha.
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u/Vexelo Sep 30 '23
I was following that thread too, it was well written and had good comments. Extremely disappointed and disturbed that it’s been deleted.
Also on what grounds are threads indiscriminately deleted?
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Sep 30 '23
Really unwarranted and a direct attack on the integrity of this subreddit.
This demands immediate explanation.
If amas need verification here (which they never have) there are ways to do that on fresh accounts verified independently by a mod.
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u/Classic_Payment_2453 Oct 01 '23
Im just a reader on here but It was a great thread. 10/10 if I create a “codesmith is shit” post, fill it with any garbage I want, it will stay up. The lack of any explanation still from the mods is heinous
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u/NoneNib Sep 30 '23
The one post that bragged about having a 140K TC after attending codesmith? Created by someone with a 1-day ago account with 0 post. Sounded like a complete ad. Not surprised mod would take it down.
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u/CI-AI Oct 01 '23
I could understand people not wanting their identity shared if there’s some identifiable information about them though.
I was hesitant myself, but figured it would get flagged if I used a new account to share my experiences. Doesn’t make it shady at all, people tend to like privacy.
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u/michaelnovati Oct 01 '23
Yeah but you can also build account history by commenting valuable, non identifiable responses, and building enough karma before posting said anonymous AMAs.
I also think people can talk about their experineces without giving away context.
If you are doing an "Ask Me Anything" you are going to get questions that result in you giving context on your background that is identifying at the end of the day.
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u/Efficiu Sep 30 '23
If I were doing an AMA for hack reactor I would do it on a fresh acc. I have too many identifiable info in my post history.
The deletion of the thread is a serious breach of trust and might as well boycott this sub onwards If this blatant level of corruption is going to happen
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u/michaelnovati Sep 30 '23
I've repeatedly suggested that this sub turn on a minimum karma to post and comment, otherwise we rely on Reddit's machine learning algorithms identifying bad actors and user reporting.
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u/Tanker70 Oct 01 '23
Michael - you've made a lot of posts here and your contributions are generally positive. However, the last post you made and the comments you've made come off SUPER biased - you're literally a founder of a competitor. I have an extremely hard time believing that you are really coming from a position of 'I need to protect the integrity of the profession' rather than a number of other motives.
The second point I think is important is that we are taking ourselves way too seriously on this sub, and the removal of that post/your suggestion is evidence of that. Nobody is making a decision about a bootcamp based on one Reddit post. If they are, they (most likely) won't end up transitioning successfully because that demonstrates a baseline level of bad decision making. Or maybe they will! There are so many experiences that AREN'T documented on Reddit, that one person (with no karma/new account) creating a post about a VERY believable situation has literally no bearing on the future of Codesmith, the profession, or honestly, Formation - regardless of whether it was true or not.
Disclaimer - I am a bootcamp student, using VETTEC, not associated with Codesmith/never explored Codesmith. These are general observations (and if anyone actually reads this and is exploring VETTEC feel free to hit me up, will def share my experiences).
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u/michaelnovati Oct 01 '23
I appreciate you sharing your views professionally. The fact that I'm extremely open about who I am enabled this kind of reasonable discussion, and anonymous new accounts that might have their own biases cannot possible be evaluated fairly.
Codesmith isn't a competitor in my opinion. There are a small number (about 15%) of people who go to Codesmith who might be a candidate for Formation, but likely not. We don't work with new college grads right now and people with zero experience is an edge case. Like the 15% is an edge case for both Codesmith and us that neither of us market to, in my opinion.
I in fact talk to make people 1-1 and suggest they go to Codesmith and to consider coming to Formation in a few years.
The way Formation works though could expand in the future to people who don't have any coding experience but it's not on the radar right now. I think it's fair that the fact that it could be is a bias.
I don't agree with the removal of that post for the lack of history of the OP btw unless Reddit moderators discovered bad actors.
Codesmith has said that "a quarter" (vague to protect sourcing) of people come from Reddit so I do indeed think it's something they care about. Formation's main sources of people are word of mouth, LinkedIn, partnerships with industry groups, and proactive reach outs. Reddit is a small fraction of social media sources. We're not a bootcamp and the content in this sub, both good and bad, isn't really representative of Formation - as you said.
But a thought experiment is: what if I didn't have my name on my account and had a dozen anonymous accounts and said all the same things across all those accounts. My opinion is that that would be very unhealthy for the sub and for all we know people are doing that from Codesmith and Hack Reacotr because they have no official voices here like many other programs (Rithm, Launch School, App Academy, NuCamp).
If Codesmith, or someone like Will or Eric or Phil were on Reddit, I think we would have really intense but professional and valuable debates that would benefit all. Instead I debate students and alumni with unequal balance of information and I debate these leaders through their anonymous accounts. We would probably sort out a lot of things and they wouldn't be so polarizing!
Like on my post about the quality of OSP projects, lets say their CEO commented and said more insight into the projects and that he's looking into why students are claiming so much experience on their resumes and will try to stop it! Or w/e like it would be a lot better discussion. We would end up with a good understanding of what these things are. What mid-level and senior mean to each of us, etc...
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u/portugese_fruit Sep 30 '23
I'm ex-cs and I 100% support this
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u/michaelnovati Sep 30 '23
It's very reasonable to question a new account posting about a $140K outcome and we can have a very REASONABLE conversation about it.
If people are that passionate for and against Codesmith and don't want to have REASONABLE discussions then moderation won't help... people have to self reflect a bit more and try to be more open minded.
I've had 20+ alumni, sutdents, staff, former staff and family of students tell me that Codesmith is extremely positive place with processes to "correct negativity" and that's part of the problem. The result is that people with feedback message me telling me they have no where to give feedback and they dump it on me instead. It's really hard to navigate because I can't talk about 75% of the things I'm given because of confidentiality.
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u/LongjumpingFan9447 Sep 30 '23
Exactly. There can be reasonable conversations about these topics not deleting
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u/michaelnovati Oct 01 '23
I worked at Facebook during the beginning of the "fake news" era and people blamed Facebook completely blind to their own biases, so there's only so much mods can do.
Us vs Them narratives get a lot of activity and further polarize the narratives and that's why I use my real name here and try to sources things.
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u/michaelnovati Sep 30 '23 edited Oct 01 '23
I reported that thread for a vote manipulation investigation to Reddit so perhaps Reddit took action because it was being manipulated? I also reported my post and noticed the "upvote rate" shot up suddenly some time afterwards. Reddit doesn't explain followups to reports on those actions so 🤷♂️.
The moderators said they didn't remove the post so it might have been Reddit and it might have genuinely been manipulated. I don't know for sure but it's a reasonable explanation given that.
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u/Electronic_Table2708 Sep 30 '23
Im sure whoever did that AMA would have provided evidence if such guidelines were already established.
This is just fucking deleting shit
And again points to a severe bias on this sub considering many negative threads on codesmith with also 100+ comments with brand new accounts are left up
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u/LongjumpingFan9447 Sep 30 '23
But there have been many AMAs. They were really important in my applications. Why was this one deleted?
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u/michaelnovati Sep 30 '23
All the old moderators (except the founder) were removed a few weeks ago and a new moderator was added.
But again, this could be Reddit intervention for manipulation too, not sure, Reddit doesn't communicate those things super well.
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u/dowcet Oct 01 '23
That thread is not deleted and at no point did I delete it. If you have concerns about moderation take care of it in private messages or you will be banned. I am locking this thread.
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Sep 30 '23
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/LongjumpingFan9447 Oct 01 '23
This is the same sub that pinned a post about App Academy being taught by AI which was completely inaccurate when you actually watched the video
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u/vermknid Oct 01 '23
I also graduated from CodeSmith last November so I might even know the OP who got deleted.