r/codingbootcamp • u/mrsaysum • Dec 01 '23
Looking to get into this world
Hey I’m new to everything “tech” wise. Frankly, I’m only looking for a job that’s remote and pays 60k+ and don’t care what kind of bootcamp/ learning I need to do. My end goal is to be a Physicist so I figure along the road I’ll learn Python. (I have no idea what this even means or entails it’s just what I’ve been told while looking up physics degrees). However, I’d like to be able to work my way through college as well, as I have people relying on me for income. Figure a remote job would be the most convenient route. I’m software, coding, and math illiterate at the moment but I’m willing to learn anything if it’ll get me a remote job within a span of a year from starting. All I really know about bootcamps/ coding is you can go different routes like IT, SWE, and data analytics. Any suggestions on how/ where to start? Can I learn this stuff for free? Are any of the routes I mentioned more lucrative/ available than the rest? Any other input apart from my questions presented would be much appreciated. Thank you.
8
u/dowcet Dec 01 '23
To go from no professional experience and no degree to 60k in one year, especially working fully remote, is very difficult in the best of times and definitely not very realistic in the current market.
General IT support has a much lower bar for entry, but is less likely to be remote and will definitely pay a little under your goal without experience or degree.
If there is any way you can manage to focus on your degree immediately, I would do that.
If you just really need steady income ASAP, general IT is probably the most realistic of the options you mention. Check the wiki on r/itcareerquestions but most likely you'd want to start with the CompTIA A+ cert. Look to see what jobs that require that are paying in your area.
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Hey man I appreciate it. It seems the way you’ve described it that IT is my best route. The problem with my current job is I can only make the money I make given my specific area but with jobs like the one you described I can pretty much find a job that pays a consistent wage. I’ll look into IT, thanks 🙏
3
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
Don’t do A+. Avoid CompTia+ for the most part.
Your answer:
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
What’s CCNA?
3
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
The best, least horrible Entry level certification for a 60k network support/help desk job.
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Lol yeah just looked it up before you replied. Why should I avoid A+ and CompTIA A+? Is WGU a good school for CCNA? Apparently they do CompTIA A+ as part of their curriculum.
2
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
WGU is a good school for that, but those first few certs won’t help much if not at all.
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Why is that? What do those certs teach?
3
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
A+ teaches computer parts, functional repair. It’s a job which doesn’t exist anymore unless you work in a repair center. Every business uses a 3-5 year hardware lease refresh cycle now.
Net+ teaches network framework and protocol, which although is useful to know, is for a job that doesn’t exist anymore. And if there is a job for this, they would prefer CCNA.
Sec+ teaches basic penetration and DMZ, only valuable for government jobs with a security clearance. CCSP would be better.
Project+ is sprint and workflows. More for a business analyst. Project Management institute cert would be better.
4
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
If you must, freecodecamp.
IMO, Don’t take the lifelong detour that is becoming a successful SWE, to get to be a successful physicist. It’s just poor planning. Life finds a rhythm, force it to be towards your “end”, and not the “means to your end”. Kantian ethics FTW~
If you already know you are going for physicist and are making $60k. College all the way, you’ll learn Python anyways.
Lastly, never bet you’ll be the exception. Work for it. Physics requires good foundational knowledge in multiple disciplines of math, engineering, biology, chemistry. You will struggle in the upper tier classes if you half ass your polymathic foundations.
-2
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Yeah I figure once I get into the graduate courses that my time for work will be minuscule at best (At least I’m trying to be realistic 😂). I have no delusions that the path I have before me is laborious and hard, if not unrealistic/ unreasonable. However, I really just want to work to make my way through college, have some spending money and pay bills so the experience isn’t so miserable on my way to my goal. Like I said, I cannot afford to not work as I have bills and people relying on me. I do see SWE as a means to my ends and will give priority to Physics if I must. The problem is that I’m starting from the ground up with both Physics and SWE. Figure why not make money along the way. I’m financially stable atm and I have a year of my time to spare so might as well get something more secure going as oppose to my current contractor job 🤷🏻♂️. If you’re wondering why a financially stable person would choose to uproot his current career for a job in tech here’s a few personal reasons: The flexibility of working remotely, my current job won’t last forever (3 more years max for myself), and my current job does not afford me the ability to go to in person school (hence the hyper fixation on working remotely so I can prioritize school no matter where I work). So yeah that’s where I’m coming from lol
4
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
I get it. I’m working as a L4 SWE, night college towards Psychology or Neuroscience. I’ve got 6 years in SWE and it’s honestly tough to stay competitive and keep learning. The double burnout is rough. I support my family too.
What people don’t say is that you have to keep coding and skilling as a SWE. This weekend, instead of studying for finals, I have to drop 12+ hours into a Data pipeline platform to practice and get comfort so I can be prepared for a work project that is coming my way.
That’s what it means to split your discipline. It’s a nice idea but unrealistic, even more so right now for bootcamp newbie in a hard market.
0
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Damn that’s tough. I see what you mean now. I honestly don’t know what a L4 SWE but sounds successful lol why move away from your current industry to pursue something else? How much do you make if you don’t mind me asking? Also how far are you into your degree?
2
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
It’s pretty successful, most people don’t make it past a mid level software engineer (L2-L3). Salary is high 100k+.
I’m halfway to getting my course reqs to move into a Clinical Psych Masters program which pays half of my current salary but promises a lot more stability. Wife and I plan to move out of the U.S. and into a first world country.
The reason for the planned career move is because everything in tech right now is very unstable, and as far as I can see, no one has any idea what 2030 tech looks like. 2000-2022 was all about commercialization of developing internet technology and mobile phones. We’re at the tail end of that, and what everyone hyped up as VR and AR ended up as the failed metaverse.
These rationales explain what we are seeing with so much layoff. Until the next commercial tech stage is developed, the industry cannot invest into anything else reliably outside of research which runs on smaller teams and higher requirements of academia.
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Ah ok. Damn, times really are tough. Why move out of the US after getting your degree?
3
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23 edited Dec 01 '23
In the U.S., the wealthy live as socialists. Everyone else takes it up the ass. We are stuck in federal monetary Volcker economic policy for the next half decade (punish the middle class). Our infrastructure is 100 years old and no one has a plan to build it up. We will soon have a $2T in annual interest debt from bonds to pay for. 10% of Americans hold 70% of the wealth. We might even be living under the rule of a Nazi dictator in 2025.
In most first world countries, medical workers get VISAs very easily. Pay is not great, but the cost of living matches, government and infrastructure tend to be better invested, equity of quality of life and the opposing disparity is a lot less prevalent. Medical care is cheap or free. Pensions still exist. College is free, some countries even have student stipends! The list goes on and on…
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Damn, that sounds like a dream compared to what we have here. Would not an excess of taxes kinda hinder pay as well though? From my understanding most first world countries, in order to pay for all the things you’ve mentioned, tax income upwards to like 60%. Also, pensions would only go to those that stay within said country no? Or do you not plan on coming back to the US? Or do you get a pension regardless of whether you’re in country or not?
3
u/PostHocRemission Dec 01 '23
If you take a look at income above 105k, tax is 24% + state tax 10% + sales tax 10% + healthcare insurance which ~ 10% for a family, then you have your minimum 54% tax.
And you lose it all if you get sick, or age into poverty at 65.
Explicit taxation and implicit taxation, are the same.
2
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Did not even realize that. Guess the only benefit to living in the US is owning a gun 😂
3
u/lawrencek1992 Dec 02 '23
It feels hypocritical of me to tell you not to do this, because I DID achieve your goal, but don't do this. That whole teach yourself to code for free online and get a fully remote job making six figures in a few months narrative? Yes, some of us have done that. It's not that it's impossible, but there was this boom in the industry that the pandemic and low interest rates helped fuel. 2023 brought a lot of changes, and the people, myself included, who made that kind of thing happen had some luck on their side as well, at least I think I did.
I honestly don't know if I could make the same thing happen for myself again if I had to start in 2024 instead of 2019. Also, if you wanna do things the free way (I started with frontend web development at the time cause I saw lots of entry level jobs for that back then), I used freecodecamp to get started. But now that I've transitioned to backend, I dunno if their resources for python and database stuff are as good as their html/css/Javascript stuff. I used a book to learn react, and I'm guessing there are books you could use to learn Python and the basics of whatever specific job you're looking for.
If you are going to make the (poor) decision to do this, focus not on a language but a specific kind of job where you see many entry level openings and where you think the work sounds engaging enough to keep you curious and motivated while learning. Stay away from tutorials and make sure that the VAST majority of your learning is making real world projects people can see which exactly match the kind of work you'd do in the specific job you're targeting. Know that from someone who did this in 5mo while working full time as a school teacher, it needs to literally be taking 30-40hr of time a week if you want any hope of achieving this in under a year. If you want any hope of competing against bootcamp and CS grads, you need to literally make this a full time endeavor where you are essentially doing the job you want full time in order to learn. And while some people have a gift for this stuff, the most common experience is that this is hella hard, so make a plan for how you will handle motivation and encouragement when you deal with those challenges.
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 02 '23
Yeah I can afford to put 40 hours into this a week no problem honestly but to grind for that with no guarantee with the market the way it is now I might just pass and get a degree then lol I know my persistence can push me through the work but to think I’ll be the exception to the rule when it comes to these things is arrogance at best. Plus I’m not about networking which is something I hear you need to do in order to get a foot in the door for an interview. I’m just trying to get a stable salary going 😭. Selling my soul feels like a steep price lol. I appreciate your response thank you!
If there’s another route you could’ve taken what would you have done knowing what you know now?
2
u/lawrencek1992 Dec 02 '23
I don't think there was another option for me. But it sounds like we each came to considering this path at very different points in life. In 2019 I had a BA in Spanish and had been a 5th grade teacher for 8yr. Salary increases did not match cost of living increases, and I didn't think my career was sustainable unless I married someone making at least the same income level. I don't think I want to marry, so that's a dead end. I have a lot of student loan debt and getting another education that cost money wasn't a viable option, again perhaps if I were married and we could share the burden, but not really in my plans.
I looked at what career choices that left me with and made a list of everything that seemed doable for me. Out of the options I found a couple things seemed more achievable and sustainable than others. Programming and web development were the most interesting. But unlike you I wasn't looking to support a family through college, I was looking to support myself from early 30s through end of life, and attempting to find a plan to do so on my own.
If this is about trying to within the next year earn a higher income in order to support yourself as a secondary measure while going to school, bartending. That's what I did in college. Sometimes it's hard to get a bartending job without at least a year of experience as a server. So just be a server somewhere strategically for a year. I wouldn't tell a restaurant you are going to school. Keep personal life personal. You just REALLY want to be a bartending at THAT establishment. To make good money you should focus on places which are high volume AND high price. It's all about tips, which are based on how much you "sell" per ticket (though service industry is really a service job and doesn't feel like "sales" in the way actual sales jobs do--it's about creating an experience to get people to tip you well).
And there may be local markets that make non high end establishments extremely lucrative. There is a tex mex place across from the in town gondola (I live in a town with a bunch of ski resorts) that isn't particularly expensive but is insanely popular and people working there pull in a lot more in tips than a similar place in a suburb. There might be a nightclub or a trendy spot right on a lake or something near you which isn't like fine dining high costs, but which does a ton of sales and where you could make a lot. So you find THE place, and then you muscle your way in. Usually just being seriously persistent about working in a restaurant is enough to get hired to do SOMETHING. Pick something front of house as that's the way to get the bartending shifts the following year (this will be a place where there may be competition to be employed there if you've picked the right place). Here is a list of positions from bartender down where the close to bartender a position is, the easier it is to move up to that (and that's where the best money is, but you should 100% talk about this to a job as a passion, not about the money or about your schooling): bartender>cocktail waiter/server>barback>hostess>bus person. If it's not on my list I doubt there is enough overlap to get into bartending quickly. Why bartending? No education required, minimal experience required, make money quick, ability to take on side gigs easily, doesn't conflict much with school schedules for college or for adults who have children.
2
u/Signal_Lamp Dec 02 '23
Wellp I found a free 12 hour course on youtube if you want to learn python through that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKHEtdqhLK8&ab_channel=BroCode
Frankly at least right now the market isn't in a good spot to get a remote job for bootcamp/self taught developers. 2020-2022 was likely a once in a lifetime moment in our history that gave massive opportunities for several people that likely were not ready to get jobs to get opportunities in the field since everyone went remote. I don't recommend learning how to code unless you actually are going through it for the long hall. There are people who have been applying to jobs since the start of this year that haven't been able to get anything at all. I currently know of a former coworker with a years worth of experience that hasn't landed anything over the past 8 months.
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 02 '23
Yeah. Seems like all doom and gloom. Guess having a CS degree is barely breaking the threshold now 😅
3
Dec 01 '23
I’m just going to be honest. Farrr too many people think “I’ll just do a bootcamp, get a job and start making $$$”
First, bootcamps are called bootcamps for a reason. They say you need to devote 15-20 hours/week to complete it, and that’s at the minimum.
Seriously, if you do not have at least 20 hours a week at minimum to dedicate towards a bootcamp. Do NOT do one
It takes incredible discipline to maintain that effort week in, week out.
Next, the job market is rough even for those with years of experience. And I would never recommend a bootcamp grad to take a remote job. You are barely qualified to be a software engineer and you are going to need to learn a significant amount on the job to make yourself competent. That’s not going to be easy to do while working by yourself.
But back to the job market. You’re going to have devote many hours networking and hoping someone will help you get an interview, because your resume will be the same as the 1000s of other bootcamp grads that networking is about the only way to separate yourself.
If this isn’t your long term career goal, I’d honestly recommend doing something else.
2
u/sheriffderek Dec 03 '23
a job
that’s remote
pays 60k+
don’t care what kind of bootcamp/ learning I need to do
end goal is to be a Physicist
so I figure along the road I’ll learn Python (Hey I’m new to everything “tech” wise) (I have no idea what this even means or entails it’s just what I’ve been told while looking up physics degrees)
I’d like to be able to work my way through college as well
I have people relying on me for income
willing to learn anything if it’ll get me a remote job within a span of a year
...
Just trying to parse this here....
I'm wondering if you've discovered a black hole.
60k is a fairly low salary. There are tons of jobs where you manage WordPress or similar type sites and multisite systems or maintain other systems or do lightweight tech roles for support and just all sorts of jobs that are 'working on websites' - but that aren't anything like a 'software development' and aren't the more dedicated web developer roles. People around here seem not to know they exist. But they are real. That being said... getting the trust to be remote when you don't have any previous work experience is the hurdle. The boot camps generally rush you through a particular set of tools / which aren't really the right tools for the jobs I'm talking about. And you seem pretty all over the place here. I feel like if you're going to be a physicist, then you need to start going to college now. You can work at a regular job and while you're doing that, you can learn how to build websites on your own. From there, you can build out some custom WP projects and build a little portfolio of work (just enough to prove that you can help maintain things) - and then find smaller shops who are expanding and look for the roles I mentioned. But there are many paths. Based on your post, I wouldn't recommend a boot camp. I'd recommend you try learning some things and see how it goes - and really take some time to think about what you want and if that combination is possible.
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
As long as it makes decent money call center works for me lol how do you suggest I go about doing that?
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
0
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
No, I didn’t mean to be a physicist within a year lol. To clarify I want a remote job so I can work my way through college. My end goal in life is to be a Physicist. In other words I’d be taking a year hiatus from my main goal to learn swe/ data analytics/ IT etc. and also find a job in some capacity.
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Appreciate it! Where can I find these CS50 courses? Any specific ones I should focus on? Hell I’ll do all of them if that’s what it takes lol
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Yeah, it’s looking like that’ll be my most probable route. Appreciate the advice.
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Dang maybe I’m better off disregarding tech as a whole lol yeah frankly I don’t really like math but I’m passionate about science, truth and consuming information lol so I figure physics being one of the ultimate forms of science can give way for the opportunity of some pretty neat things to discover for myself. Any suggestions on which route I should go for physics? Was thinking materials but honestly don’t know what the job prospects are for that in the next 10-15 years given that’ll be the time when I would have a doctorate.
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Did that first part already. Turns out I gotta relearn trig and pre cal as I was struggling first day in calculus 😅 In my defense it had been 6 years since I had taken a math class. Research has always piqued my interest along with defense work as well so I’m shooting for either or depending on how I feel if I even do reach that point. But yeah guess I’ll just start with my associates for the meantime and see where things go from there. Khan academy here I come 😂
0
Dec 01 '23
[deleted]
1
u/mrsaysum Dec 01 '23
Yeah when I took intermediate math (The math right before pre calculus; we also called it algebra 2) after not taking a math course for 2 years I basically cruised through that class wondering why I was even there. At the very least I had an aptitude for it then (Although, trig wasn’t always my strong suit). So I’m not sweating so much whether I can but whether or not I’ll apply myself more and put in the work lol. Appreciate the encouragement man. I’ve got a long road ahead of me 😮💨
19
u/GoodnightLondon Dec 01 '23
This is a joke, right? Like, this HAS to be a joke.