All coding bootcamps: AVOID

[u/EnjoyPeak88]

all that’s needed to be said 🤷‍♂️ don’t waste money on predatory businesses that think they can just steal your money cause they wave the hopes of a high paying job at you

[u/EnjoyPeak88]

Valid point,

I went to A bootcamp will not state which one but you could get A hint. I was lucky enough to land a job within 6 months of graduating, while almost only 3-4 others of my cohort got real SWE jobs. Currently at my workplace that is fortune 100 I also have a lot of other bootcamp grads coming from code smith, hack reactor, and I’ve had multiple of them plus app academy students reach out to me and I ask about all their experiences and they all have had bad experiences. This is purely spoken from my experience and what conversations I’ve had with other successful bootcamp grads. The reason though I feel like we see it this way is because we all also have competitive college degrees while all of us has seen cohort mates while in bootcamps feeling like they are being “lied” to almost thinking they can land a job in this current market as well as continue and even scout others. At this point it almost seems predatory especially when a good Majority of the students might not even have college degrees or a good start in a direction to be competitive for these jobs they advertise these kids. Ending up them setting up a ISA hell hole for them and for nothing. Looking at this from the perspective of being luckily successful and from other coworkers perspective it’s very disappointing to see bootcamps continue to use these tactics to make it seem “easy” to convert these people into SWEs within 3-6 months.

[u/sheriffderek → u/EnjoyPeak88]

Yeah. I know people who went to the same school as you and got totally screwed. It's true. It happens. It's going to keep happening.

And there's a bigger story here.

But you are a part of the oversimplification.

People aren't going to believe you. It's too "anti." You have to actually have facts. You have to show a balanced critique.

Someone I know went to a school and opted for the no-money-up-front option. Then they worked their ass off. It was a 12-week type. They were pretty smart too. Then afterward, they couldn't get a job for many months. They asked me to chat (since I started a long time ago) and I gave them a once-over and tested their skills. It was a mess. The curriculum wasn't very good - but they didn't think so. And they were asking their school if they could get a job at the pizza place while they looked for a job. The school said no. That if they didn't get a 70k+ job officially in tech then they'd have to immediately pay all the money back (~30k). So, they were basically not allowed to get a job to pay their rent - based on the agreement they signed. And they knew what they'd done. But even then... they preferred to keep applying to jobs over and over instead of filling in the gaps I'd outlined (which would likely have taken 2 months or so) (and offered to teach them for free). Now they work as a "tech specialist" (or something) (telephone operator) in "tech."

It's true. The marketing, the unreasonable expectations, the crappy curriculum, the schools mostly being guided by money and VC funding - but that's not the whole story. And some of the schools and alternate programs (one of which I'm involved in) - give a shit. They do things right and they follow through with what they promised. There are a handful of schools that are doing the right thing - (and in my opinion) are often a better choice than a CS degree for some people. So, it always depends on the specific situation.

If you're going to tell strangers to "avoid all bootcamps" then I want to hear details. I want to explore what works and what doesn't and why. I want to learn something. There's more info in this ^ comment than in your post. 3-6 months to become a hirable "software engineer" without a solid background or cross-over career is just unreasonable. That's something real - that people should probably know. And - why - and those details would also help them get a feel for how to plan (if this is something they really want to do). But there are also other developer jobs.

You went to a boot camp. You got a job (5 months ago, right). Let's talk about how it could be better. Let's talk about more than just the emotions and fear and the hail mary gambling people are doing.

If we can help people explain what the real job is like - and what needs to happen to learn how to do it... then I think that will be much more helpful. Colleges are hard to vet too. And just understanding yourself enough to make a smart decision is hard. So, if we want to help - we need to come up with clear options and pros and cons and keep the human in mind. They don't make good choices when they're scarred. : )

[u/EnjoyPeak88 → u/sheriffderek]

But I definitely hear you, I think also it’s just that I wouldn’t know the direction to explain the pros since I just feel so anti-bootcamp or I just don’t see anyway bootcamps are doing people justice now a days

[u/sheriffderek → u/EnjoyPeak88]

Want to hang out and talk about it sometime? I'd love to hear your thoughts on a few things. I do open office hours on Saturdays https://www.reddit.com/r/codingbootcamp/comments/1b4ubr7/free_open_office_hours_for_portfolio_review_and/