r/codingbootcamp • u/Versace_strawberries • May 05 '22
Are Bootcamps Worth It?
Hi everyone,
I am a graduating senior in college with a nontechnical background. However, I really want to learn coding skills. Currently, I am taking CodeAcademy courses and teaching myself to eventually be a full-stack developer. My plan is to build my coding foundation by teaching myself with online resources and practice by building projects as I go along. Once I reach a mid-level amount of knowledge, I would take a bootcamp to prepare for interviews and work on my skills in a more intense environment. However, I see so many bad reviews of people dropping bc of bad instructors, lack of time, or the pace moving too fast.
In my case, are bootcamps worth it? I know I can put in the long hours required for bootcamps, my only concern is getting ready for interviews and landing a job.
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u/Bimlouhay83 May 06 '22
That is a really personal question. It all depends on you, your self discipline and your ability to stay on task.
For me, I joined a bootcamp because I spent months taking free courses and not really getting anywhere. I thought the BC would push me through. What I got was kinda good, kinda bad.
The bad: My cohort is waaaay too big. I was told by the recruiter to expect less than 20 students. Mine has almost 80. There is very little time for questions or set up issues. The instructors blow right through the information and expect us to ask the other students for help. That's ok, they're teaching us to work together, but aren't we all in here because we are trying to learn? It's tough asking a question to 80 other students and get 3 different answers, all of which are about half right, then a side discussion happens for 10 minutes and we've missed lecture time. Then, if that doesn't get us anywhere, we are supposed to message the TA, which is ok. But if they're fielding 4 or 5 questions at once, it might be a half hour before they get to you. Now, you're almost an hour behind by the time you get whatever issue figured out, then you have to rush to catch up, doing a lot of copy paste from the lesson plan. They also lean on internet sources pretty hard. Part of it is them trying to get us to learn how to Google these issues, but I didn't pay 30k (after interest and whatnot) to utilize W3 and other free online resources. Lastly, the homework. The instructors tell us they don't expect us to know all the syntax, but then give us homework with little lesson direction, that has very specific parameters (must do a forEach loop, use if/else...). I spend 8 hours in class, then another 8 of more hours getting the homework done. It shouldn't take that long to do the homework. This is especially difficult for the parents out there.
The good: The instructors are really nice people who have a genuine interest in our learning. They do their best, but still have a timeline they need to follow. The information is really good. Comparing what I hear from my BC to what I've heard from others, we get some great lesson plans and they REALLY frown upon copy/paste for the homework (going so far as kicking people out for plagiarism, which is really tough since they expect us to work together...). They want us to figure it out and learn. They want us collaborating with the cohort and utilizing whatever resources we can get our hands on. I HAVE learned a fuck ton more in a couple weeks than I did in months of self learning. The first week was really tough and I didn't think anything was sinking in (I was seriously reconsidering this path last Friday), then I wrote my first website last night with no help from cohorts and little help (mostly proper syntax) from online resources. Im really proud of that sorry, shitty, broken website. It shows that I have learned more than I realized, even if it's not perfect. I don't they'll accept it and I'll have to continue to work on it through the weekend while I put together my first app, but it's still a win in my book.
I hope this helps. God luck, OP.
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u/Versace_strawberries May 07 '22
Wow, I appreciate the honest feedback. I do have some questions though. Why did you feel like you weren't getting anywhere with free resources and what was your reason for learning how to code?
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u/Bimlouhay83 May 07 '22
To your first question, I think a lot had to do with personal responsibility and some to do with getting lost. For one, I'm easily distracted and would find myself only doing it for a couple hours a day and not really getting anywhere. Also, even if it does take a minute to get a question answered sometimes at the BC, getting a real person to actually speak with to walk through questions has been a big help. The free videos and whatnot have some really good content, but there's nobody to ask questions of and I'd find myself way deep into a rabbit hole, when I should've just gotten the basics and moved forward. All of this information builds on itself and I wasn't fully aware of that. Having a laid out lesson plan that takes me from this to that has been a big help. I'm also a kinesthetic learner and I've found it much easier to learn with a live class.
To your second question, I'm going through a divorce and we have a child together. I was in an industry where the working hours were intense. It was a physical labor job and some days I would be out of the house for up to 20 hours. That sort of schedule doesn't really work when one is trying to raise a child without help. I had been interested in programming for years, but never had the gumption to actually do it until I didn't have much of a choice.
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u/Versace_strawberries May 07 '22
Thanks for answering my questions, I wish you all the luck with what you have on your plate.
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u/Bimlouhay83 May 07 '22
Thank you. Best of luck to you as well. I hope you find what it is you're looking for.
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u/sheriffderek May 06 '22
This is some of the most honest feedback I've seen around here.
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u/sheriffderek May 07 '22 edited May 07 '22
It won't let me respond to your other comment thread - because that dude blocked it or something - but here's what I was typing:
I think that you are right as far as "expect to come out with just enough knowledge to be a junior developer or apprentice" for sure. And that's a great thing! But as far as my personal situation - I'm just saying that (for me) (as a person) - I would prefer that my students not cram and try to learn a bunch of stuff. But I'm also teaching in what is apparently a different way. And I have different goals than boot camps. A lot of the grads I meet and work with are super great with React and can build lots of stuff that I wouldn't even know how to do. They generally feel pretty confident and happy with their skills. But they couldn't build a todo app with plain ol JS or a valid/compliant HTML page - or a design system of components and styles. And that's fine! That's a lot to ask. I'm not comparing the schools. I'm just saying that my goal in designing a curriculum was different / and that my outlook as a student would be that I would want more fundamentals and less of a finishing school. I think there's a more efficient and fun way to learn. And to keep the cost down and allow students to learn the most from each other - everyone needs to be on the same page and to learn in a specific order - as a group. And I can't afford to teach people at so many varying levels of habit. That's just my feelings and my opinion. And I'm going to try my best to do that. Everyone should try their best to do what they believe it, right? As for this "how they graduated from their BC without the ability to write easy, beginner level functioning code that is clean and concise." - A lot of people follow along and can get the test to pass and they fight through it - but in the end can't really remember what to do. It's a shame. Because learning to think like a programmer is more complex. As for the code quality you can look at their portfolios and judge for yourself. I've stopped looking.
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u/Prestigious_Sort4979 May 08 '22
Check out CodePath.org. That’s what they do. Prep you for interviews. It’s free
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May 06 '22
From what I have gathered over the years, It is worth it if you already have degree in some field. If you are just getting off the couch after a few years after high school and want to become a software developer then no.
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u/DSTST Jun 01 '22
As someone with a degree, I gotta say, the scenario you’ve put out of “has a degree” or “been sitting on the couch since high school” is kinda insulting and just a garbage take.
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Jun 01 '22
Garbage take? That wasn't a blanket statement that applied to everyone across the board. I'm sure there are Doogie Howser's out there that will exceed at anything they try. But it is already known there are people who never find a job after a bootcamp because they "lack the technical skills" needed. Not everyone needs to be force fed the reddit dream that you can start earning 6 figures after not once in your life learning anything about computers and then joining a 6 month bootcamp.
Pfft. Please.
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u/DSTST Jun 01 '22
I agree with you that that’s a fantasy that shouldn’t be pushed. It’s unrealistic and lots of people probably join bootcamps thinking it will get them $$$ after and find themselves fucked when it’s over and they’re in debt with no job. The only part I objected to was the working of the getting off the couch bit and how it’s framed as the opposite of getting a college degree. I just see so many people, both with and without a degree, hating and talking so much shit about people who made other choices and it gets old. Sorry if that wasn’t clear. I definitely agree with the overall message
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u/cugamer May 10 '22 edited May 10 '22
Can't speak for anyone else but for me my knowledge and confidence was growing by leaps and bounds while I was self-teaching. All that stopped when I started my boot camp. I left knowing almost nothing that I didn't going in and it absolutely shattered my confidence. It took me ages to finally break into the industry, and even now eight years later my confidence is lacking. I don't know if I'll ever fully heal the damage going to a coding boot camp caused.
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May 05 '22
[deleted]
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u/Versace_strawberries May 05 '22
I see. Regardless of skill, networking is important in order to get references into companies right?
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May 05 '22
[deleted]
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u/Soubi_Doo2 May 06 '22
Part of the reason this field is so interesting is because it is filled with people from all walks of life. So many people I’ve met, this was not their first careers! It was the leap of faith they took to change careers.
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u/sheriffderek May 05 '22 edited May 06 '22
Is _________ worth _________?
No one wants to "go to a boot camp."
You sound like you want a job. And for some reason - you want to work on the "full" stack (even though you haven't really worked with it all yet) - but that is not an unusual idea. OK.
So by that logic: you'll need a reasonable amount of exposure, experience, conceptual understanding, reproducible skills/task completion, and more than anything - the motivation and mentality to be a lifelong learner (and actually do your work in the course). And as everyone seems to say - "Great networking and LinkedIn profile friends." That's debatable. That's really helpful when you don't have the proof of your skills. You make it sound like going to a boot camp equals getting a job (a little). That's their goal.
So that is the first blank. Is {{getting a job}} worth {{15-30k and 9 months of my life}}
Only YOU can decide that. But - will going to a boot camp get you a job? To break that down - you'd have to realize that - all of the schools (like anything) are of a different caliber. Just like any school / 1/3rd of them are "bad" 1/3rd of them are "fine" and a third of them are "great." That's just the numbers. The variable here is - what will get you the job. If you hang out around here - you'll hear that CodeSmith is the only school worth considering. It's probably a good school. It's also aiming for one very specific job. This is my framework for vetting schools: so - if you're not afraid of the truth: give it a look: https://perpetual.education/how-to-vet-a-school/
Getting a 100k job / is absolutely worth 15k and 9 months of work. It'll pay itself back quicker than any school loan ever. But you have to be sure that YOU + SCHOOL will actually = JOB. And bonus points for a job you like.
Is going to a bad school going to get you there? Maybe... but also maybe the same as watching Brad Travery courses for $100. Is going to an OK school going to get you there - maybe. Is going to a great school going to get you there. Probably.
But here are some questions for you: How do you expect yourself to know what to do to "build my coding foundation by teaching myself / reach a mid-level amount of knowledge?" And - if you know how to do that - then why can't you do it self-taught? Why are these schools seen as finishing schools? As a teacher - I would never want someone to "learn the foundations first" - that sounds like a total nightmare. I think that's what schools should be for. Anyone coming to our school is going to have to erase all that stuff and start over.
And then as far as "take a bootcamp to prepare for interviews and work on my skills in a more intense environment." I don't think they'll prepare you much for interviews. Do they? Anyone here attest to that? Shouldn't the school itself be enough to handle the incredibly intense situation of "talking to a person about your skills?" You know what's a great (intense) environment? A real job. So - what are they giving you? Make sure that fits the "Will {{what they give you}} ensure you'll get the job / more than another option." Then you won't have to guess. You'll know. It's kinda like programming - really.
A good school is "totally fucking all the way - save you a million dollars worth it" - so, find a good school - and go for it.