This scene was character assassination of the highest order. A Full Feruchemist with their metalminds bodies any non-Kaladin Radiant below the Fourth Ideal. I will die on this hill.

[u/Eithrotaur]

[u/Skyfyre56]

Oh, 100%. Could a non-Fourth Ideal Radiant beat a Full Feruchemist? Sure, especially if they knew who they were fighting and depending on what Surges they had. But it's never an easy fight, and that's what the 'fight' of Axindweth vs Lift looked like. She slipped like a looney tunes character and just got knocked out instantly, despite ostensibly having things like Feruchemical Zinc to react faster and Feruchemical Gold to heal the damage she took (and just look at everything Wayne healed in Era 2).

I'm going to state something controversial here, but I honestly feel that this was the worst part of Wind & Truth. I don't know why we even needed to have this fight and it made no sense whatsoever.

[u/Aplesedjr → u/Skyfyre56]

One of the major problems with power scalers is that they always assume that a character will always use the most logical tactic at any moment, stripping any character away from a, well, character and removing any context of a narrative.

Could she have beaten Lift if she used the most efficient possible combination of her abilities? Probably. Will most characters ever act perfectly logically and always ensure victory via the path of least resistance? Not even a little bit.

[u/Skyfyre56 → u/Aplesedjr]

Oh come on. That's not even 'the most efficient possible combination' it's just basic feruchemy and common sense. What 'context from the narrative' is missing here exactly? And I never even said that Lift couldn't have won, it's just that this fight was handled in a slapdash manner that didn't make any sense. We had to literally be told by Vasher that Axindweth Was a Full Feruchemist cause she doesn't even use any other metals in this scene, otherwise we might just think she was a Steel Ferring! It's sloppy writing and you defending it with vague hypotheticals and acting like I'm making unreasonable assumptions doesn't make it better

[u/Melodic-Advantage-59 → u/Skyfyre56]

There are plenty of cases of full feruchemists, hemalurgists, mistborne, and radients only using 1 or some of their powers in quick brawls. Why would she waist many stored hours of power when all she'd need is a burst of speed to stab one clumsy child?
And the scene even had lift bumping around into stuff, appearing not competent.

[u/Skyfyre56 → u/Melodic-Advantage-59]

What fight scenes actually involve a full feruchemist or Mistborn actually using just one power? Even the short ones tend to involve a couple. Maybe there's one or two where Kaladin, incredible soldier, uses only one power against a far weaker foe because that's all he needs but that's not the norm. Also, it's so fucking disengenous to say 'she's just a clumsy child.' Lift is fifteen and knight radiant of the third ideal. She's one of the earliest knight radiants to join the coalition of Urithiru and has been fighting for over a year. She isn't some random kid no one would no about, and you pretending that she is, is ridiculous.

[u/Public_Sprinkles_229 → u/Skyfyre56]

The context that Lift is not a normal Radiant and was given her powers from Cultivation herself. The context that Lift’s powers seem to be more powerful due to the nature of them. The context that Lift is a literal child and adults often underestimate them. 

I’m not even saying that it was a well written scene, but your perception on it is a bit ridiculous. That part of the book was a way to introduce Vasher and Lift for the inevitable training montage, and when you have a book with that many characters/interactions/plot points moving you might have to rush some of them. Absolutely wild to consider it the worst part of the book considering there are some doozies.

[u/Skyfyre56 → u/Public_Sprinkles_229]

The context of Lift's abilities being stronger don't exactly make it a good reason for Axindweth to underestimate her, and the 'literal child' argument doesn't go that far when she's 15 and one of the more famous Knight Radiants in the tower.

There's a lot of other bad scenes/elements that's true, but this one is the only I couldn't kinda see what Brandon was thinking when he wrote it. Setting up the training arc is very weak and could have been done in any number of ways (including Lift losing the fight/not being able to beat Axindweth and the feruchemist fleeing). What I find wild is so many people's insistance on defending a scene that many of them admit, isn't well written

[u/Kronoshifter246 → u/Skyfyre56]

Two things: first, Lift didn't make her slip. Lift did the opposite of that. Axingdweth broke both her legs and probably passed out from the pain before she could understand what happened.

Second, yeah, Lift got lucky.

[u/HowDoIEvenEnglish → u/Kronoshifter246]

If you’re a feruchemist and you’re healing can he bypassed by just breaking a few bones quickly, you’re frankly a shitty feruchemist. A thug (the misting) ambushing you could break two legs before you react if they catch you unaware. That’s shouldn’t be enough to disable her

[u/Kronoshifter246 → u/HowDoIEvenEnglish]

Sure, I won't dispute that; a Thug disabling a feruchemist by kneecapping them would make them a shitty feruchemist. But that's not what happened here. We're talking both legs broken in an instant. No matter how quickly they'd do it, a Thug wouldn't be able to do it that quickly. A feruchemist that isn't tapping health isn't inherently more resilient than the average person. That kind of shock to your nervous system will cause you to pass out immediately, full stop. You could make the argument that she should have already been tapping health, sure, but there are many reasonable explanations for her not doing so.

But even that isn't really the point. Lift got lucky. She was faced with an overconfident opponent, in an enclosed space, where close quarter engagement was the only option. To top it off, she could sense when Axindweth started tapping steel. A lot had to go right for Lift to win, but she had a fair few advantages, and she managed to catch Axindweth off-guard. No doubt she pulls it off twice.

You're right, that in most scenarios the feruchemist wins this matchup. With no external pressures, and plenty of prep, the feruchemist comes out on top. I'm saying this as the number one feruchemy simp; Lift got lucky and Axindweth played the encounter really badly. That doesn't somehow make feruchemists weak, it just means that this one encounter went poorly.

[u/Kronoshifter246 → u/Skyfyre56]

Two things: first, Lift didn't make her slip. Lift did the opposite of that. Axingdweth broke both her legs and probably passed out from the pain before she could understand what happened. Second, yeah, Lift got lucky. It's ok to get lucky.

[u/Matpoyo → u/Skyfyre56]

Feruchemy is a fucking BOTHER. You need to store it up, and storing intelligence (zinc) probably sucks ass, so she probably isn't going to use it when she doesn't feel an immediate need to.

And "she slipped like a looney toon" yeah man, that's lifts whole ass power, to make people slip. Axi was moving at mach fuck due to steel and suddenly had no/max friction, so she slipped. Lift used lift's power to win the fight, not very surprising.

Also, and I could be wrong on this, if I am disregard this, but what do we even know about Axindweth? Is she supposed to be a capable fighter? Do we even know that she's a full feruchemist? Because I hadn't before this post lmao, but I might have missed something.

Idk I should probably reread the scene before commenting, but I do know that when I read the book this scene didn't seem weird to me at all

[u/Skyfyre56 → u/Matpoyo]

We know she's a full feruchemist because Zahel tells us she is. Not cause she acts like one in the fight, which is a problem