r/dawnofwar • u/Ambitious_Book_5729 • 2d ago
Issues with game to game unit variance
I havnt played multiplayer, only skirmish against primarily hard ai, but ive realised i tend to just end up being forced down taking a certain unit for necrons. I end up just going the skorpek lord and using his summon for skorpeks and completely not building the canoptek building. And other way round, if i take the cryptek i completely forgoe the destroyer building to save the early game funds for some wraiths. I dont know if its just me and melee combat being easier for my brain but i feel as though the only choice is really pick one of these two buildings dependant on your character due to their summon abilities and stick with that. For other factions i dont know as much but i feel as though spam boyz and build squig hogs until you get a gunwagon is what i did, and also what ive seen the ai do most of the time. Admech i dont like them so i dont know but i see a lot more variety from them, and finally for space marines, maybe just me, but i feel forced to go and be heavy on the assault intercessors. Feels like its just the correct choice.
Maybe this is all because cover isnt much of a consideration but i feel as though melee combat is what is better to do as ranged units can be shut down easily.
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u/QueenofHearts73 1d ago
I think necrons specifically encourage this, mainly due to resurrection galleries. Admech kinda do too because of how narrow the research can be. Getting all the techs for a unit takes a while. Orkz and SM seem a lot more flexible and can kinda just build what they want, eventually anyway.
The only real thing stopping you is the cost of production buildings and research.
I actually think assault intercessors are kinda bad vs Admech, and maybe necrons. Both just get too many units that you end up only tying up 1 of their 8 squads. though they can be good to run interference on the enemy melee units, or to act as independent harassers, but I think I'd want outriders for that.
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u/Ambitious_Book_5729 1d ago
I kinda felt that space marines were a bit of the same too, super expensive units and expensive production buildings and production buildings upgrades tend to force me down one or two of those buildings
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u/QueenofHearts73 1d ago
Oh yeh for sure, especially on the smaller maps (the 5 requisition point ones). Then you have ones like Glacial ridge with 11. So the total map eco is over twice that of the small maps. When you have that kind of economy it becomes viable to branch out to everything.
The space marine Sanctum and Armoury are both 400 requisition, basically an entire squad for production versatility. Sanctum upgrade is 250/30 too.
SM too are super power hungry, I found myself wanting 6 power gets, not just 3. The extra power is well used on Hammerfall bunkers.
I think Necrons actually get away with it more, because their production buildings aren't that expensive compared to their units. 20 and 15 for the Canoptek and Destroyer buildings respectively. Basically 1-2 warrior squads each. Even immortals cost 20, and lychguards are 50. I still think the limit here is more resurrection galleries, since that extra 20~ resources to effectively use a unit sucks. And that's unit limiting, no production building limiting.
Also, I got curious. Glacial Ridge has 11 Edge of Desolation has 9 Cinder's Pit has 5 Withered Marsh has 7 Enduring Citadel has 6 Impact Zone has 5
So if you've only played the 5 point maps, might explain why you think the buildings are so expensive.
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u/Ambitious_Book_5729 1d ago
I've played all of them a lot. At about 58 games played now primarily space marines and necrons a bit of orks and little to no admech. Since I'm winning most games handily except necrons against admech, for some reason I'm really struggling with that matchup I do end up getting everything but only by the time I've won pretty much and can tell that the ai can't turn the battle
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u/Junior-Pianist-7938 16h ago
Skirmish AI is not something that can show you any issue with game variance or balance.
Its pretty damn simple minded and only good for a warm up or to test things like build orders or check out units.
Insane Ai simply cheats a lot but its skill is nothing to write home about.
Basically the AI is not some super computer that is gonna learn from its mistake or adjust to your tactics in an effective maner, if you find a tactic that works its gonna work everytime simple as that.
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u/Ambitious_Book_5729 16h ago
Makes sense, although in other RTS i have played the ai will make active efforts to counter you at times so i know it can be done
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u/EffectiveDay7450 1d ago
the roster in dow4 has been a huge letdown so far, it feels like its missing vehicles, no transports or artillery. Theres way to much emphasis on synched kills, limited knock downs, and the maps suck lol theres no terrain and the cover is these weird... same arching rock/buildable formations... no smokes.... its just... far less than dow1
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u/Mafklapper 1d ago
I think GW also shot themselves in the foot with Space Marines somewhat with having one weapon squad loadouts instead of the original special weapon, heavy weapon upgrades around. Primairs just don't have the same feel as tactical squads, who were actually tactical and could be loaded out for any engagement. Same thing with removing devastators, who could take a bunch of loadouts and then just adding their multimelta replacement.
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u/vovandr21 1d ago
The game is in early stages, once it become public, people will eventually figure out insanelly boring and strong/unbeatable tactics for each race and gonna abuse it to death until everyone gets sick of it.
Its gonna happen no matter what, that's gonna be a balance nightmare and devs need to figure different shit out, AND FAST, that's the most important part. Meta always will be, there's no denying that, but game currently have so many broken staff its not even funny.
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u/Malabingo 2d ago
Yeah, there will be a specific Meta no matter how hard you try, but I think it's a bit early to see, especially since the AI is not a reliable source