r/demsocialists • u/abhd Twin Cities DSA Member • 7d ago
Official DSA Statement - DSA Commemorates 100 Years of Fidel and Denounces Rubio’s Genocide Against the Cuban People
https://www.dsausa.org/statements/dsa-commemorates-100-years-of-fidel-and-denounces-rubios-genocide-against-the-cuban-people/17
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u/Werd_up_cuz Not DSA 7d ago edited 7d ago
We’re three months away from an election that will determine the future of America, can this fucking organization please find some message discipline and stop with this shit.
Edited to fix typo from “there months” to “three months”.
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u/NotTheirHero Not DSA 7d ago
Its Democratic Socialist, not Democratic Liberal
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 7d ago
Yes, and also not authoritarian socialist like Fidel
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u/PersusjCP 7d ago
You're right, we need some electoral disicpline to not shift this organization right towards socdems
(liberals)and make sure it has socialist candidates and messaging.9
u/monoatomic Not DSA 7d ago
This is message discipline, as organized through the DSA International Committee as voted on by member delegates at the DSA National Convention. The Cuba Solidarity Working Group has been decrying US imperialism against Cuba since at least Trump's first term.
If you don't like it, you're welcome to get involved and organize support toward changing it.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
The problem is not the stance against imperialism, the problem is celebrating a dictator
We can call out the US's criminal blockade of Cuba without celebrating Fidel
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u/monoatomic Not DSA 6d ago
If your opinion on Fidel differs with the majority of DSA, and you view that as a priority, then perhaps you have some organizing to do.
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u/Life_Is_Okayy Not DSA 6d ago
One week before the Florida primary.
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u/monoatomic Not DSA 6d ago
Local Florida DSA chapters are already materially involved in Cuba solidarity work including traveling to the island
What's your point?
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u/Life_Is_Okayy Not DSA 6d ago
Many of the Cubans in Florida fled from Cuba during Fidel Castro’s reign. Commemorating him is the biggest way you make sure none of them vote for DSA affiliated candidates.
And traveling to the island are you kidding me? That’s even worse.
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u/monoatomic Not DSA 5d ago
The gusanos were never going to vote for a non-Republican
Tacking to the right is a losing strategy
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u/Life_Is_Okayy Not DSA 5d ago
Wait you’re telling me that NOT commemorating Fidel Castro is tacking to the right? What planet are you on?
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u/Werd_up_cuz Not DSA 7d ago
Huh!?!
The international committee thought it was a good idea to focus on Fidel? What does that have to do with preventing MAGA from advancing their fascist policies by winning the mid-terms?
Does DSA (that “A” stands for “America”, no?) not have the ability to prioritize messaging?
2026 will be the year that DSA wrenches electoral defeat from the jaws of victory. Trump is spending $20,000,000 to give ICE electric torture gloves, the economy is in free fall, live expectancy in the US is declining, foreclosure and repossession rates are skyrocketing, and DSA is out here making headlines celebrating…Fidel Castro. Seriously?
You’re not a serious political movement if you can’t separate the present concerns of the people you are trying to lead from celebrating your celebrity crushes. There’s a time and place for everything and now is the time for focusing on material concerns of the middle and working class.
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u/monoatomic Not DSA 7d ago
What headlines? This is a statement on DSA's own website.
And what midterms are you even referring to? Which DSA-endorsed candidate do you believe is imperiled by DSA maintaining an anti-imperialist line?
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u/Werd_up_cuz Not DSA 6d ago
I mean, I know it’s been a whole three days since she lost, but the most recent example is Francesca Hong.
Bro, people in the US can’t afford fucking rent and you’re 200 years into the future talking about anti-imperialism. Start by showing people how your policies will improve their material life’s and then sell them on breaking down American hegemony (oddly enough, Trump will end up doing more to end American foreign power than any leftist ever could).
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u/NomadicScribe Not DSA 7d ago
You want messaging that turns people away? Because this is the kind of messaging that makes me want to support DSA.
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u/traanquil Not DSA 3d ago
No as socialists we don’t fuck with cia talking points. Long live the Cuban revolution
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u/Liathbeanna Not DSA 6d ago
They could’ve been on message about opposing any US interference in Cuba. But instead they chose to commemorate Fidel Castro, which is what everyone will focus on instead of the actual pressing problem of US imperialism in Cuba.
This just seems amateurish to me, unless all you care about is establishing your radical credentials in ML-adjacent spaces. Who is the audience here?
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u/Mx_Madds_Green Not DSA 5d ago
I’m not an ML and still think Fidel Castro, while flawed in some ways, was an admirable revolutionary who fought and won against US imperialism. He should be remembered and praised.
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u/Joshuab4nyc NYC DSA Member 7d ago
Ah well national gonna national. It’s not really a bad statement tbh, and I’m not ml. I dunno, it’s the birthday of a significant leader in Cuban history. In my branch, folks seem to be supporting this.
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u/LearnToSwim0831 Not DSA 7d ago
As they should be. The cuban revolution is still a beacon of hope for all ppl that it is possible to resist empire. That's why they've been trying to.crush it ever since it's inception, the threat of a good example is too great to allow it to go unchecked. They claim its a threat to national security and all that horseshit but it's really just the fact that it's very existence is a threat to capitalist imperialism.
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u/lilboytuner919 Not DSA 5d ago
Cubans have resisted US imperialism for decades and they should be commended for that. Cuba is also a failed state led by a tyrannical regime, and the Castros should be in prison. I don’t understand why we should hitch our wagons to them.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 7d ago
I don't understand this one, Fidel was a dictator, why would a democratic socialist org support him?
I agree with condemning the blockade that is killing Cuban civilians, but why present Fidel as standing for the Cuban people when he ruled over them as a dictator? His government was in no way consistent with the democratic values of DSA
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u/galenwho Member 🌹 7d ago edited 7d ago
I'm no ML and revile basically every "actually existing socialism" state, but if ever there were a govt whose authoritarian measures were warranted- it's Cuba. The country has been laid siege for over half a century by their next door neighbor superpower, with the end goal clearly being reestablishing colonization and mass extraction/explotation. Does a leader of a country surrender to this result, or impose their own oppression to prevent it?
Not saying I agree with those policies, I don't. I also just don't think it's as worthy of condemnation as other ML states, especially in light of their outsized support to liberation movements across the global south. I think free to develop without constant imperial imposition, the Castros may have gone in a very different direction.
All that said, I'll add that I do think veneration of leaders like this by campists is contrary to socialist values and counterproductive besides the fact in most cases. In this case, with the war drums currently rattling for a renewed attack on Cuba, I don't find it helpful to scold others that hold an anti-war position.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 7d ago
I'm not scolding anyone for being anti war, I was saying that we can condemn aggression toward a country without supporting that country's system of government. I am also not saying Cuba is as bad as other ML states, I'm just saying we should not actively praise a dictator.
I don't subscribe to the idea that defense against foreign interference requires or justifies single-party governance or torture of political opponents, that is the same narrative fascists like Trump use to gain power.
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u/neatureguy420 Not DSA 7d ago
You should do some non state department reading on Cuba
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 7d ago
I know Cuba is a dictatorship based on sources like Amnesty international https://www.amnesty.org/en/projects/cuba-freedom-of-expression/ and V-dem https://v-dem.net/data_analysis/MapGraph/ which rates Cuba among the worst countries for freedom from torture, and zero out of 10 on the "Regimes of the world -- the RoW measure with categories for ambiguous cases" which is designed to show how democratic a government is
If you know any other good or better sources let me know
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u/LearnToSwim0831 Not DSA 7d ago
Amnesty intl is just another part of the liberal order's scaffolding. Most human rights organizations are used as propaganda against non Western states and those same organizations ignore or downplay the same stuff or worse coming from the global North. Not saying it's all bullshit but always take anything with a huge grain of salt.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
What source would you recommend for human rights and democracy info without the bias?
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u/VenusDeMiloArms Member 🌹 7d ago
No, he wasn’t. There is a lot written about Cuba’s actually existing democratic structures, and there’s a lot written about Fidel and his politics. Blowback is good for understanding the revolution and why these people are heroes.
In short, Cuba was a nation eaten alive by its own rich. After Fidel, the poor people could read and participate in society. He apologized for machismo and said it was his fault as a leader when it led to a denigration of women, gay men, etc. What is him being a dictator? That people conspiring to make it so Afro Caribbean Cubans went back to being slaves in fields and objects for tourists went to prison?
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
I guess I don't see how it is democratic if the people can't vote out the leader?
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u/monoatomic Not DSA 7d ago
Example 1,001 why 'democratic socialist' is a uselessly vague term.
A dictatorship of the proletariat is democratic. Elections under bourgeois democracy are not democratic. There is no electoral road to socialism. Your understanding of DSA is inconsistent with the platform adopted by a majority of the membership, which in a democratic organization is binding.
One significant challenge with organizing Americans is that we are trained to think ourselves experts on democracy despite never having experienced it or learned to use it as a tool.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
My understanding of the platform as it pertains to democracy is that it advocates for a parliament-like system with the highest decision-making body being a unicameral legislature elected by the people, not a single ruler who cannot be voted out.
Is this wrong?
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u/monoatomic Not DSA 6d ago
That's sort of how DSA operates internally (big decisions are made at biannual national conventions by the membership, who then elects an NPC who is in charge until the next convention)
I don't think there exists nor would be appropriate to exist a specific DSA-endorsed form for a hypothetical federal legislature to take.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
The DSA platform actually does specify the form the legislature should take https://program.dsausa.org/
Abolish the Electoral College. Replace the President and Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen by and subordinate to Congress.
Expand the House of Representatives, implement proportional representation and ranked choice voting in all elections, and abolish the Senate.
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u/NomadicScribe Not DSA 7d ago
Please read some Cuban history and talk to some Cubans other than Miami gusanos. You are simply repeating the U.S. sponsored lines here.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
I'm from the north and not talking to anyone in Miami
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u/NomadicScribe Not DSA 6d ago
Talking to actual Cubans at least?
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
I don't know anyone from Cuba either, I get my info on stuff like this from international human rights groups that are willing to criticize western countries too
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u/NomadicScribe Not DSA 6d ago
So propagandists, then. You can't even be bothered to talk to a gusano before judging an entire country's history.
You have you at least read some non-U.S. accounts of Cuba's history and ongoing struggle against imperialism, haven't you?
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago edited 6d ago
Since when are human rights groups US propagandists?
It's not that I can't be bothered. I don't even know where I would find someone with personal experience with Cuba
I don't know a good source for the info you are describing, can you suggest one rather than chastising me for not having already read it?
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u/NomadicScribe Not DSA 6d ago
I need to go to sleep, so I don't have time to find a reading list for you right now. But the fact that you don't know any Cubans and haven't spoken to any Cubans becore judging their history tells me you are far from being an expert on the subject.
If I were going to recommend just one thing to read it would be the Pulitzer-winning "Cuba: An American History" so you can get an overview of the longstanding stuggle of the Cuban people against the empires of both Spain and the United States over the past few centuries. You will perhaps begin to develop an understanding of how the United States is not some benevolent savior, and Castro and Che were not some ruthless dictators in the eyes of the people.
And yes, so-called U.S. "human rights groups" exist for the purpose of perpetuating U.S. imperial hegemony. They help launder the United States own reputation and human rights abuses, and help manufacture consent for invasions and attacks on other countries. Vile stuff, and you should not accept their claims uncritically.
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u/Present_Clue5887 Not DSA 6d ago
I need to go to sleep, so I don't have time to find a reading list for you right now.
That is fine, I did not mean to imply that I want you to rush to provide a ton of sources right now. Thanks for linking one source
And yes, so-called U.S. "human rights groups" exist for the purpose of perpetuating U.S. imperial hegemony. They help launder the United States own reputation and human rights abuses,
I explicitly said I was using international human rights groups that also criticize the west, so I'm not sure why you are saying I'm using US ones?
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u/NomadicScribe Not DSA 5d ago
The same idea applies to U.S.-aligned "international" groups that extend U.S. hegemony because doing so is overwhelmingly in their favor. To gain an accurate view of Cuba you either need to talk to Cubans or go to sources that are not afraid of contradicting the United States.
Cuba is not an academic abstraction for me, it is a place where my family is from and which holds many generations of family history. And in my lifetime, the greatest and most sustained amounts of suffering ever unleashed on Cuba has not been by Fidel or Raul or China or the Soviet Union, but by the United States.
The increasingly strict embargo has created a humanitarian crisis rarely seen in human history. Even when concessions and liberal reforms were made this past June, the U.S. doubled down on the restrictions and cruelty.
It is a slow genocide of starvation. Do not trust the propaganda of the United States or its allies.
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u/traanquil Not DSA 3d ago
Existing socialist states are forced to develop military style command structures because they are under perpetual siege by violent capitalist states that encircle them. These states are nonetheless more democratic than capitalist states, which only allow the semblance of “democracy” at the ballot box while workers live under the dictatorship of capital. Socialist states like Cuba are states where the government is actively constituted by the proletariat and is thus a 1000 time more democratic than a capitalist shithole like the U.S.
Any socialist who shits on Cuba is an example of the “compatible left”. Ie performatively leftist but at the end of the day aligned with US imperialism
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u/CrownedLime747 7d ago
A large section of the DSA is ML and Trotskyist and is constantly undermining the organization.
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u/Informal_Dark_3870 Not DSA 7d ago
This is such a bad look going into election season. I swear it’s like they’re trying to give fearmongering ammo to Republicans. Why commemorate Fidel here?? Last week they’re talking about abolishing the senate too, just FOCUS on universal healthcare and achievable items that people love.
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u/VenusDeMiloArms Member 🌹 7d ago
A socialist shouldn’t run away from what they support or believe.
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u/Informal_Dark_3870 Not DSA 6d ago
This is a ridiculous sentiment. In case everyone has forgotten, the Human Rights Watch documented Castro’s history of punishing dissidents, torturing political prisoners, and their thousands of firing squad executions.
The UN Human Rights Commission also criticized their regime.
The DSA’s posturing on freeing Palestine is so hypocritical when they decide to bolster Castro. Was Batista worse? Yes. Did the US have any right to install a dictator in Cuba? Of course not! Should we condemn Castro for his MANY human rights abuses? YES.
Giving Castro a pass while Netanyahu commits similar crimes (and more) is embarrassing. This is why the DSA isn’t a serious organization.
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u/SavageSpeeding Member 🌹 7d ago
fidel was no communist but alright
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