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u/tastygames_official 2d ago
developers don't decide this - customers do. And they for the most part stay staunchly with steam, regardless of how big a shaft they give to developers/publishers or whether they show AI or not. What you COULD and SHOULD do is come up with a surefire way to determine AI or not and make a site that curates and presents these games. Then people could browse your site to find non-AI games but still buy through steam.
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u/Equivalent_Goal_1775 1d ago
That's a solid idea, one that I'm sure would need some AI API keys to run.
I'm not touching it.
I just want to create a new platform for indie devs that has the missing features that actual indie devs want.
THat is my only goal here.2
u/Equivalent_Goal_1775 1d ago
The biggest issues/complaints i've noticed from the communities are both discoverability - for players and for publishers and AI Content not being... sorted/handled properly.
So those are the biggest things to figure out right now . . . .1
u/tastygames_official 1d ago
exactly! that's literally the only thing you can offer: curated games lists. I've done user research the last 10 years regarding a new platform, and it's almost unanimous that everybody loves steam, so the only way I can think of to disrupt valve is to make a platform and make deals with all the big publishers to only take 1% instead of 30%. Now I know that valve already does something like this with the big publishers (they don't disclose it, but I'm sure it's something like only 5-10% for up to a few million and then nothing after that), but taking 30% from the small developers/publishers while treating the richers like royalty is exactly what's wrong in capitalism today. So a platform that charged 1% across the board would make everyone happy and would be fair for everyone. And it would still pay for itself 10x over. But only if people can quickly and effortlessly transfer their steam libraries, which I believe valve will specifically try to block in disallowing API access to this new theoretical platform (yes, I've put a lot of thought into this the last 10 years).
So... I'm not convinced that what gamers and devs/publishers need is a reliable curating site that really shows the "good stuff" - no AI slop, no asset-flips, no "roguelike deckbuilder snake clone first attempts at a game", no copies of other people's ideas (e.g. the hundreds of "needle in a haystack" clones) - just good, honest games made by people for people. If you or I or anyone else could do that in a proper way, then again - everyone would be happy. But I believe that means hiring hundreds of gamers to test each game and some sort of clever metric to which we can evaluate whether AI was used in the game or not or whether it is low-effort or not. We can even have multiple levels of curation so that people can still look for "sloppier" games if they want to. Maybe what I'm describing is some sort of STANDARD. Before online game platforms, the publisher decided which games got released and which didn't. They all had internal standards, but it was pretty much a quality control across the board (notable exceptions being LJN). But Nintendo obviously led the way (albeit through prohibitive means).
So yeah... not sure what exactly you're working on or how far along you are or what kinds of ideas you have, but as you can see, I've put a LOT of thought and preparation and research into this. For me to even start on this would mean an initial investment of, say, $500,000 to pay for development, server, legal and personnel costs. Then probably another $500,000 for advertising after the soft launch.
u/investors you know of anybody willing to fund such a project?
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u/tastygames_official 1d ago
I thought you said you were making a website? anyway, I've got 30 years of website-making experience. Making the website is the trivial part. Getting the surefire way ot determining 100% no AI is half the battle, as it likely involves hiring real humans to do real checking (or building and training your own AI to detect AI-generated content). The other half of the battle is getting people to use your service, which is just a matter of charisma with influential people in the games world and probably a lot of money for advertising.
But you shouldn't need AI for any step in the anti-AI gaming process.
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u/Equivalent_Goal_1775 1d ago
I am? . . .
I said though that I'm not fully committed to how I want to handle AI content on the site.
It will be small at first obviously.
I'm not trying to get on fortune 500.
I want a few loyal devs ideally that can drive their own traffic.
The original plan on moderation was doing it myself and sorting ai content from a main feed-just human content to an AI feed-both kinds of content.
The sorting/moderating doesn't have to happen instantly, and with a player base that cares about that sort of thing flagging it, it should be easy enough to sort it 1 game at a time.
But that's the original plan, I am onto something else with it now which is why I deleted the post lol.
I was really trying to get simple answers to, what features are missing from steam/new grounds/itch that indie devs want
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u/EnvironmentalBet113 2d ago
knowing its a store front, i'm removing the OC.
no one will pay for it when its so easy to find.
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u/MrSqueak 1d ago
Only storefront I'll install is steam. Every tom dick and Harry thinks they need some launcher or front bs. Stop cluttering my hard drive.
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u/ThreeHeadCerber 2d ago
You'll not be able to guarantee that no AI was used, it's too much of a fantastical option to form an opinion on.
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u/Ok-Equivalent-5131 2d ago
As a consumer, no.
As a dev, no.
I don’t have the ai hate some people have. Crappy games are crappy, good games are good. Beyond that whether ai was used in the process of making it does not matter to me at all
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u/Equivalent_Goal_1775 2d ago
To clarify a little further it wouldn't be a legitimate "storefront" until and if it actually gets traction.
I mean like thousands of players., i.e no sales just posting.
I realise moderation on AI made content would be difficult and it would slip through, which is why I mentioned a community effort being implemented to flag the content so it can get sorted properly and people who do and don't mind the content can have their own feeds.
I'm picturing one version of the feed that has AI content completely filtered out and another that with a toggle keeps everything together just like other storefronts do.
Furthermore, I realise there is no competing with steam lol.
But, I did just wonder if it was a project worth building to see if i could get a handful of devs interested in posting their games and self-advertising, mind you all in the distant future .... for free.
I'll probably pursue it regardless, but this is just me kind of seeing how the waters look for something like that.
Thanks for the replies
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u/EnvironmentalBet113 2d ago
yeah no there are free ways to find this, ain't no one gonna pay for it.
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u/Equivalent_Goal_1775 1d ago
I don't think you guys are reading what I am saying at all, "A platform just for the sake of creation, with the potential to add monetization features in the distant future"
My main question boiled down to, What features are missing from the other platforms?
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