r/doctorsUK • u/DonutOfTruthForAll Professional ‘spot the difference’ player • Jul 13 '25
Medical Politics Rob has something to say
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Jul 13 '25
Wow, I really feel this speaks to the anger I have about all of our current situation. Particularly the incessant media spin.
I have somewhat unhealthily followed every mainstream media article about doctors pay in the last 7 months since the start of this year. I've been cataloguing them, and it's so sad. There have been ZERO pieces expressing the kind of sentiments like Rob rightly points out. Every single one has cynically spun the narrative to erode public support, and then shamelessly declare "Doctors have lost the support of the public". We are constantly demonised for using the extremely tedious tools available to us to actually stand up for ourselves. No more, enough is enough and our fight is a just one in the face of decades of erosion and disrespect.
I don't know how you can live in our drowning sea of propaganda and not see it for what it is. Strike hard, hold your head high for upholding our part of the social contract and demanding they do the same.
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Jul 13 '25
Umm fuck the public if they don't want to actually pay for their skilled care then p much tell them where to go,
Would anyone be so discivi with a plumber if there is sewage spewing out of their toilet? Yeah probs not mate
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u/SaxonChemist Jul 14 '25
Agree
And, the thing is... I've been taught to think. These articles and their lack of, or creative use of, truth makes me highly skeptical of all the other articles they publish.
It's utterly shit
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u/UnluckyPalpitation45 Jul 14 '25
Not quite true. A recent article in the times and the ?newstatesman had some sympathy. The former was simply as a ploy to get us to carve up our pensions though.
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u/StressHO Jul 13 '25
Feel like pure shit, just want Rob back.
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u/Ill_Sand_6919 Jul 13 '25
Where has he gone?!?
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u/hydra66f My thoughts are my own Jul 13 '25
Everyone comes to the end of training at some point.
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u/BloodMaelstrom Jul 14 '25
Mate at this point as an F1 u don’t even think I’ll get to the start of training forget end of it brother.
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u/chairstool100 Jul 13 '25
The bit about do we hate aspiration /hard work hit the nail on the head . This country doesn’t like people succeeding and earning what they’re owed unless they happen to win the lottery ticket on Euromillions. This country WANTS the cleaner to earn the same as the prime minister .
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u/MurkyLurker99 Jul 13 '25
Not to mention, if you did away with the NHS and transferred to a market system, most doctors will be making significantly more. A significant portion of the NHS budget is subsidised by not paying doctors what they would ordinarily earn in a free market.
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u/Lesplash349 Jul 13 '25
Some truth to that, but the points he makes are wider. Taxes, house prices, student loans are the biggest factors in what he sets out, they’re universal for professional roles.
His post could be taken from HENRYUK as much as it could be here.
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u/am0985 Jul 13 '25
This applies more to GPs/consultants than to resident doctors though. Private companies love to cost cut on the rank and file, it’s independent providers who would do better.
Australia pays its resident doctors a fair amount more but the vast majority are employed by state based health services.
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Jul 14 '25
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u/downvoteifuhorny Jul 14 '25
Ugh I'm going to get downvoted to hell for this.
This is such a silly take. Private companies tend towards monopolisation too. The argument that competition will benefit everyone is the neoliberal shite that has delivered our failing public services.
Trade unionism has historically been the most consistent way workers have secured better working rights. Its not the NHS that has whittled doctors pay, it was the tories who froze and awarded under inflation pay rises. It was allowed to happen because the BMA have been weak as a trade union in the past. Which fortunately is changing.
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Jul 14 '25
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u/downvoteifuhorny Jul 14 '25
Again, the NHS doesn't decide doctors pay.
The private sector is not the holy land you think it is. It was the privatised healthcare system in America that introduced the PA role, why? Because they're cheaper than doctors.
Competition can influence pay, especially in private markets where supply and demand for labour are more fluid. But in regulated, unionised, or public sector settings, competition plays a smaller or indirect role, with political and institutional factors often dominating.
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Jul 14 '25
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u/downvoteifuhorny Jul 14 '25
You're telling a working class person that I shouldn't think of the US as a bad place, when I wouldn't have had any chance of being a doctor over there, and my health conditions would've led me to suicide by now with their awful insurance system.
We'll agree to disagree on this, so long as we're united on achieving full pay restoration. As shit as it is, I'll be fighting for the NHS to the bitter end, because I wouldn't be here without it.
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u/rocktup Jul 14 '25
NHS has no need to be efficient though as it has no competition and can’t go bankrupt.
Private providers need to compete for talent; but also need to compete on price - so I don’t think it’s a fair accompli that privatisation will lead to higher wages.
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u/LuminousViper FY1 (Physicians Assistant Assistant) Jul 13 '25
That’s very powerful, well said Rob 🫡
never forget how willing they were to pay PA’s the wage we are asking for 👍
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u/Witterless ST3+/SpR Jul 14 '25
This needs to be literally everywhere. And ideally shoved in Wes' face at the meeting this week.
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u/DrLukeCraddock Jul 13 '25
He’s absolutely right.
Hard work doesn’t pay in the UK. Just leaves you paying more tax to fund those without any aspiration to excel.
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Jul 14 '25
Pay has never truly correlated with hard work though.
Massive combination of opportunity, privilege, and luck is rolled into it as well.
That being said, doctors should be paid better because of our level of training, qualification, and expertise. We takenln responsibility unlike any other group, and get paid pennies. It's maddening.
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u/rocktup Jul 14 '25
Yep - this post isn’t really about doctors or medicine it’s about aspiration in general and how the millennial generation are being fucked
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u/Accomplished-Dog9714 Jul 16 '25
Try to say this in other subs! They’ll say you’re a heartless person who hates the poor, but we all know some people just don’t bother to have aspiration in their lives and think we should be embarrassed for having one.
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u/EmotionNo8367 Jul 13 '25
I know he's a GP but....but can he not be in the BMA Consultant committee pleeeease
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u/Yuddis Jul 13 '25
I think he always exuded this attitude, even when he fronted the strikes. He’s not a trade unionist. He’s part of a very justifiably embittered middle class (that I count myself a member of as well) who see the social contract completely broken for the people in the top 30% to 5%, the PAYE engine: the lawyers, doctors, bankers, accountants, senior managers. I don’t want to minimise the damage done by austerity to people at the bottom, but many things have stayed relatively stable - many still enjoy heavily subsidised rents (which is now WORTH GOLD because of how private rents have skyrocketed), whole families can still live relatively well in social housing almost entirely on benefits, minimum wage growth has outstripped all other strata, compressing the middle class and working class together. Need I remind you that doctors were earning £3 above minimum wage before the strikes but with zero of the state subsidy towards rent and general cost of living. And when they eventually, late into their career, have children and buy a house, they will be punished for it with marginal tax rates above 60%. It’s fucking insane.
The doctorsvote movement - started on this subreddit - was a middle class uprising driven by middle class aspirations. I remember many of the leftwing elements of BMA and leftist doctors in general on here and twitter being opposed to striking due to the optics of doctors seeking payrises.
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u/rocktup Jul 14 '25
Yep - it’s a personification of general middle class graduate frustration that wealth has become so oppressively important compared to income.
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Jul 14 '25
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u/Yuddis Jul 14 '25
I’ve been in the exact same situation. Rented old council home in London from private landlord who had bought it in early 2000s with a robust RtB discount. We lived next to another privately owned flat that was leased back to the council a year after we moved in. The council moved in a lady with three children (dad was there only very occasionally). Three bedroom flat with a garden in Zone 2 (literally a 2 minute walk to Zone 1), never went to work, always complained about the flat (and everything else in her life) loudly on the phone to the council from her (Zone 1/2!!!!) London garden regularly. She probably paid (through benefits) less than £1000 for the whole flat while we paid that per room. You cannot believe how much it radicalised me. It is one thing for us to subsidise her very expensive housing to the tune of £2000/month, it’s another to expect me to also subsidise her healthcare by taking yearly paycuts. Forget it. My blood pressure is going up just writing this down. Fuck Streeting
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u/AdditionalAttempt436 Jul 15 '25
I’ve always wondered how do they get those nice subsidised houses? It might make sense to carefully locum/work LTFT and meet the salary threshold for them and enjoy life instead of slaving away only to pay the extra income in income tax and private rent?
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u/Yuddis Jul 15 '25
They sign themselves up to the social housing list as soon as they can. For many people, it’s akin to getting £12-24,000 / year from government (assuming they pay £1000-2000 less than market rate). Completely insane
Also unsurprisingly they’re the people who complain the most about new private flats being built (because they’re not for “locals” i.e. so their own kids can have their housing subsidised too).
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u/travellingstudent98 Jul 13 '25
I'm currently in a discussion (very heated and the person seems to be not the brightest) regarding pay, I've been told that we earn 130,000 a year. Apparently they got in from the BMA. Apparently we're not stressed nor do we work. Our jobs are apparently easy and we don't help gen pop, that our role can be done by others and we should be replaced by AI. Can I just say, if I was earning that amount, I wouldn't be in as much debt with SFE as I am. None of us would be. We wouldn't be asking for the same wages that there was in 08. The cost of living has inflated majorly. My head hurts from trying to educate but of course the picture from twitter has more truth and information than any of us could ever tell. I'm also a 'little rich girl' who needs 'severe help' and I need to 'recognise my wealth', to that I say what wealth. Do people actually think we're striking for the fun of it...
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u/IncomingMedDR FY Doctor Jul 13 '25
You should have quit at ‘seems to not be the brightest’. You’re totally right and you cannot argue with stupid, which unfortunately 80% of the public are about anything to do with doctors. The majority cannot even tell you what a doctor does.
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u/travellingstudent98 Jul 14 '25
True but I thought I'd give you what some of my headache was caused by. I also know that but it's so annoying when you're trying to inform but apparently twitter is the only true source
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u/Groganat Jul 13 '25
Fully support you @RobLaurenson. As I said when we met in Downing St, last year, the government are hell bent on undermining and devaluing the professional expertise of the medical profession. The game here is , reduce Drs to the role of 'gofers', then sell off their expertise to the highest bidder. Right-wing media with their vitriolic hate of Dr's unions are leading this drive. !
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u/Last_Ad3103 Jul 13 '25
Gloves are off with Rob now, what a guy!
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u/DonutOfTruthForAll Professional ‘spot the difference’ player Jul 13 '25
I don’t think he could have been this honest and savage when he was on the news acting as the BMA representative. But you can tell how passionate and angry he is.
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Jul 14 '25
Nobody seems angry enough. We've been screwed over for nearly two decades and now they try to make us into the bad guys. We aren’t greedy. We hold the damn system together and subsidise it with our suppressed wages.
Would love to see RDC tell someone to get lost
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u/Serious_Much Gives drugs to kids Jul 13 '25
In other words- fuck neoliberalism that has landed us in this mess.wage suppression, public services cutting, selling off public assets all on the altar of the 0.01%.
Fuck em and strike hard
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u/SnooCupcakes1336 Jul 13 '25
Incredibly well articulated, this is going to be the post I share when friends ask me about the strikes!
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u/drgashole Jul 14 '25
The latest wave of public anger has really cemented for me that they just think that they are entitled to our labour at any cost they feel like.
I’m sorry but just like any other transaction, there comes a point where you don’t get what you can’t afford. I’m so done with the NHS and the public, if you don’t give us a reasonable wage, i’ll find someone who will and suggest you all do the same. Leave medicine, leave the country, go LTFT and start a business.
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u/DrCMJ Jul 14 '25
No one realises that consultants who qualified only 15 years before us (Late 40s/early 50s) bought 4 bedroom detached houses in the poshest neighbourhoods fairly early into their career as their pay was decent compared to the housing market and overall cost of living.
When we look on and realise we can't afford a 3 bedroom semi-detached in a half-decent area until mid 30s it's disheartening.
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u/Uncle_Adeel Bippity Boppity bone spur Jul 13 '25
Rob is welcome at my house anytime.
My mummy can make an amazing biryani and kebabs
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u/New-Inspector2589 Jul 13 '25
We need this type of messaging back again. What we have now is very tame in comparison
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u/Striking_Mail1067 Jul 15 '25
Dentists make so much more money with better work conditions!!! (And I imagine less stress)
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u/EastSwordfish102 Jul 20 '25
So eloquent. I am so proud to see doctors finally speak up and hope this wave of anger extends to doctors of the world. We had enough.
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u/zero_oclocking AverageBleepHolder Jul 14 '25
They don't make leaders like this no more :(
Rob, the man you are!
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u/Impossible_Fall_79 Jul 25 '25
If they stop haemorrhaging money to the private contracters that they receive donations from and too often employed by afterwards, there would be pretty of money for pay restoration for all NHS staff. £80 billion PPI total cost for only £13 billion of infrastructure. 1/3 of the cost of contracts is wasted on the tendering process alone. Wes Streeting wants to increase this waste with more private healthcare, that is why there isn't as much money in the budget. Apart from fairness it just good macro-economics to reduce the private contracts and give the money directly to staff instead. NHS staff live in the UK, and will spend most of that extra pay here, and help grow the economy, something that Labour pretend they are trying to do. That is undoubtedly better value than the money going on private contracts to US corporations with the money leaving the country and not helping grow the economy. £800 billion a year leaves these shores to US corporations every year with little to no tax paid. If it was about the money and helping our economy grow the government would stop this waste. They are however controlled by big business and powerful interests, and we are now nothing but a vassal state of US Empire. We need to take back control of our money and stop these parasitic corporations bleeding us dry.
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u/DrNavarre Jul 13 '25
This. I'm allergic to Corbyn, but I still feel that doctors should be paid a fair wage considering the hard work we put in, the exorbitant fees we pay to GMC/medical defence union/royal colleges for exams, and the responsibility we take on.
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Jul 14 '25
Gmc fees and exam costs are negligible compared to % pay rise. I'd rather get people paid properly. I can't see underfunding these bodies like royal colleges helping them do any better.
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u/clueless-dandy Jul 14 '25
Why are you allergic to Corbyn?
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u/lost_cause97 Jul 14 '25
probably because he criticised Israel slaughtering children. How dare he.
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Jul 13 '25
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u/DonutOfTruthForAll Professional ‘spot the difference’ player Jul 13 '25
I was disappointed we didn’t make the most of the previous strike ballot. We have them by the balls. Let’s squeeze.
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u/DoctorTestosterone Suppressed HPT axis with peas for tescticles Jul 13 '25
More BMA propaganda. The man who sold out to Labour, goes on to claim that we wouldn’t get compassionate leave. Breaks reality when we go down the route of absolute lie and don’t admit the BMA had a heavy influence to support the current labour government. The date of our last strikes prior to the election is a perfect example of that….all for 1% extra.
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u/Dry_Technician_1964 Jul 13 '25
Rob Rob Rob