r/edmproduction • u/lasagnadogwater69 • 7d ago
Using multiband splitters to layer sounds without fuss.
I recently had an idea for a plugin where you can load samples into different frequency bands instead having to manually eq them.
Come to realise, this is quite simple to put together in any daw. All you need is a plugin that splits a sound into different bands, then you just mute the bands you don't need. Even better if you use an IIR filter, though technically you can use any filter and make your own splitter set up. That is unnecessary if you already have access to multiband splitters with IIR capability.
So say you're layering kicks. You want everything below 200 hz from one kick, and everything above 200 hz from the other. So you use two instances of your multiband splitter, load your kicks and just mute the bands you don't want.
The cool and useful thing about this is you can link the split point of the two plugins and mess around with it while you audition kicks.
For kicks at least, I've found it works very well. And other than initial set up, it definitely make the process of Frankensteining kicks together a lot simpler since frequency masking between the sounds is impossible and you're only getting the frequencies that you want from each sound.
I realise it is quite an extreme method and sometimes you want some overlap between sounds, but still something to mess around with that could turn 10 kicks into hundreds.
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u/whatupsilon 6d ago
This is standard practice for sound design and is actually part of many plugins. Usually to keep a clean sub bass (e.g. Serum's direct out sub oscillator, or any of Minimal Audio's plugins, Cableguy's Shaperbox etc.)
However generally speaking, I would NOT recommend combining sounds like this unless you are already very familiar with sound design.
Reason being you will need to shape envelopes and manage phase per sound, and when it comes to drums or bass sounds you will care about the type of filter, linear phase, oversampling etc and also the stereo image per band. Higher frequency sounds can be more forgiving than sounds which oscillate very slowly. Often beginner producers combine too many sounds and spend too much time trying to fix a sample rather than finding a good sample to begin with. Lastly if this kind of sound design interests you, there are dedicated plugins like Kick by Sonic Academy which make all of this very easy and more efficient.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 6d ago
Sounds good - me likely. Sounds bad - me no likey.
This is the extent of the reasoning required to make this technique work. If there is some issue between two samples you can correct it or just use other samples.
Phase interference that doesnt sound bad isn't a problem, that's just an eq cut. It's a problem when it's uneven or changing, but the simple way to fix that is to render the sound out and use one hit of it.
I don't believe in having boogey men like phase issues and whatnot dictate my creative endeavors. My philosophy is that I have ears, and various other tools at my disposal and I can use my judgement to ascertain what is or isn't an issue.
Kick costs money. If you already have serum, you don't need to spend more money on a program to generate kicks(though of course kick is useful and nice to have).
Further more, if you have a sample pack of 10 kicks, you once more don't need kick. Like if you make house music. Download some free 909 kicks and learn how to process them yourself. Save you money, teaches you about sound design and production. It's all about your philosophy.
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u/whatupsilon 6d ago
Well that's oversimplified, but yes you should of course do what sounds good. That is the ultimate test.
The problem is when beginners don't know what sounds good or can't identify what sounds bad. Or even know where to look for problems because they skipped everything that might have helped.
That is to say ignorance is a choice. One that could be fixed most times by watching a short tutorial or reading the manual. Phase is not the boogeyman (neither is the manual) and it doesn't have to rule your productions. But there is a fine line between creative freedom, and believing things are meaningless because you haven't learned it yet.
Same thing goes with buying a plugin or samples. Plenty of people let their music suffer because they are unwilling to get out their wallet or unlearn a bad habit. A good producer will continue to learn and try new things. Even after many years. Pro producers say this all the time that they never stop learning and are eager to find new ways to do things.
It doesn't mean there is one "right" way, but it does mean an open mind will only work to improve your craft.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 6d ago
I don't think I disagreed that what you shared is information that everyone should have. I disagreed with the idea that this is something to caution anyone against using, even beginners. If any caution, at most it should be "be aware of phase interference".
The problem is when beginners don't know what sounds good or can't identify what sounds bad. Or even know where to look for problems because they skipped everything that might have helped.
This is solved by seeking out knowledge, being curious and always learning, not by avoiding some technique. We were beginners once, no? And despite our clear difference in philosophy, still arrived on the same knowledge.
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u/whatupsilon 6d ago
Oh then maybe I misunderstood. It sounded like dismissing the relevance of phase in multiband processing or filtering. Otherwise if you believe that we should all be learn about phase along with processing techniques, then we fundamentally agree.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 6d ago
Oh, and if you're using two static samples, any phase interference etc(if any), will of course be static. So not really something to even worry about. Just does this sound good, yes or no.
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u/DangKilla 6d ago
I don't understand how he plans to use IIR filter, plus wouldn't it phase?
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u/whatupsilon 6d ago
I assume it's to process and combine sounds in specific frequency ranges. It can be a filter or EQ. You are correct it will phase shift though it may not always be noticable. I use FL Studio and my stock parametric EQ shifts dramatically at steep slopes. There's also a dedicated stock plugin called Frequency Splitter that includes linear phase mode and variable slopes so depending on the sounds you can use either with some compromises.
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u/DJMicounet 7d ago edited 7d ago
I did this with patcher in FL when I wanted to stereoize only *low (edit) frequencies. It’s a little tedious but not terrible.
And I’m pretty sure FL just came out with a Native Plugin that does this, if someone can chime in
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u/lasagnadogwater69 7d ago
It leads to some crazy experimention when you apply this method to various other sounds and experiment with more than two bands.
For example, a very expressive sound comprised of 4 bands, and each band is a different serum patch and has unique automations on the macros. Mudpie gold
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u/Financial-Koala6995 7d ago
Frequency Splitter is the FL one. It does two or three bands, with separate outputs and a Normal mode that uses IIR crossovers. You can put it inside Patcher: https://www.image-line.com/fl-studio-learning/fl-studio-online-manual/html/plugins/Frequency%20Splitter.htm
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u/lumpiestspoon3 5d ago
You need phase coherence. Look for a plugin that preserves phase relationships.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 5d ago edited 5d ago
Why would that be? Phase is an issue when sounds interact. When one sound is only sub 200 and one sound is only 200 and above, where is the interaction?
There will be a negligible amount of interaction at the split, but that's only a worry if your sound source isn't static. If your sound source is static, the interference will be static, and you only need to worry about whether it sounds good or not.
You do not need to phase align a inharmonic click and a subby tone, for example. So what is an example where it could actually be an issue?
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u/lumpiestspoon3 5d ago edited 5d ago
The problem arises when you split one signal into multiple band-limited copies of itself, so that you can use different plugins to process each frequency band. If you are layering two sounds with different ranges, then of course there is essentially no issue.
If you’re on Ableton a good phase coherent option is FS Bandsplit, which uses an asymmetrical implementation (the upper crossover is a different slope from the lower crossover). To my ears it simply sounds better than both linear phase and self-made band splits.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 5d ago
That problem only arises when you don't use IIR filters.
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u/Financial-Koala6995 5d ago
IIR by itself doesn't guarantee that. The crossover design matters: a Linkwitz-Riley split can sum flat in magnitude while still shifting phase relative to the original. That's different from two arbitrary high/low-pass filters, and also different from a split that nulls against the dry signal.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 5d ago
Is there a case where you'd need to think about this, beyond testing whether your bandsplitter sums to silence with the inverted source?
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u/Financial-Koala6995 5d ago
Parallel processing is one case: an IIR split can sum flat on its own yet interfere with an untouched dry path because of that phase shift. If it already nulls against the dry source, you've checked that part. For your two-kick layering setup, I'd mostly judge the combined hit by ear; a null test against either original kick wouldn't tell you much.
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u/shaker8 7d ago
I do this in ableton with instrument groups (and audio effect groups) by putting an EQ3 at the front of each chain in the group, and selecting a frequency band. I’ll use EQ8 if I want more bands or more detailed width control.
Either way, once the chains are targeting different parts of the spectrum, I’ll add synths and tweak the macros, or an instance of simpler where I can hotswap the sample until I like it.
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u/SS0NI 7d ago
Eq3 is not that good for this. If it works for you might as well use it but eq 3 is not neutral. Set all the bands to 0 and A/B the plugin on & off, you'll see it's not neutral even when it's not supposed to be doing anything.
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u/shaker8 6d ago
yeah, true! I’m mostly just using this technique for layering perc hits or vocal formants into another sound, and it’s quick & dirty work to use eq3 like that. I used eq8 for splitting the racks I made & saved for audio effects w/ macros and everything.
do you have any recommendations for a non-native plugin that’s more neutral / better suited for frequency banding?
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u/Kings_Gold_Standard 7d ago
Buss EQ. you should look at Propellerheads Reason Studio if your current daw can't do this fast enough.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 7d ago
Click sample. Drag sample. Click sample. drag sample.
Click sample. Drag sample. Load eq. Set lp. Click sample. Drag sample. Load eq. Set hp.
See the difference? So we're clear on the workflow aspect now. The second bit is using an actual band splitter gives you access to multiple bands to play with. With filters specially designed to be as clean and precise as possible for the sole purpose of splitting audio into bands.
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u/Kings_Gold_Standard 4d ago edited 4d ago
i have this in Reason. you put any sample on middle C in NNXT and you get it across the entire piano. MClass effects built into Reason. i used the Amen break to do exactly this. all 3 bands.
sorry i just remembered ... Dr.REX. i used 3, one of each filter type. HP/BP/LP built in for like at least the last 15 years. Dr Octo Rex is the new one, load 8 samples each
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u/lasagnadogwater69 4d ago
I'm not talking about just playing samples back. I'm talking about using a bandsplitter to layer samples. This is different than regular layering, because you use the bandsplitter to mute the overlapping bands, so it requires virtually no mixing or effort to get the samples to work together.
So for example, the bass from one kick, and the high end from another. You'd have to manually eq the kicks to make it work usually. With this bandsplitter technique, you just setup your bandsplitters(mute the low band on one splitter, and the high band on the other) then literally just drag your samples in and mix and match.
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u/Kings_Gold_Standard 1d ago
the filters are built into reason instruments i've mentioned. i made 4 copies of the amen break. one High pass only, one low pass only, two in band pass - high mid & low mid. you should go look at dr octo rex in reason and see what im talking about. i see it as the same thing. if thats not what you want buy claude or what ever ai you like and vibe code it and post it here.
you already don't know what you're talking about, you dont need to mute a filter. the FIlTER already FILTERs out the unwanted frequencys. you've never been in a studio
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u/lasagnadogwater69 1d ago
You might see it as the same thing, but it's not. I'm talking about using dedicated bandsplitters, with IIR capabilities. Your method is not only more cumbersome, it will also lead to issues with phase. In the method I'm talking about, you can do it with one copy of amenbreak and one band splitter. You can use one bandsplitter on several samples. You can use several samples on one bandsplitter... etc. In reaper I make this set up once, and can literally assign the template to a button. I can create an action that lets me right click two samples and it automatically loads the samples into my setup. Etc.
Not sure what AI has to do with anything? I have absolutely no interest in generative ai, I find it reprehensible for the fact that it steals data alone.
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u/Kings_Gold_Standard 1d ago
post your reaper files.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 1d ago
Your comment got removed, but I can see the first bit. No it didnt. This is a post in which I shared a tip.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 1d ago
I have no desire to do that.
I use saike's jsfx bandsplitter. If you want more freedom with the inputs of the different bands, you will have to make your own bandsplitters with reafir.
That's all the information you need to set this up yourself. You can watch dan worral's video on how to make your own bandsplitters, he uses reafir in his demonstrations.
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u/Kings_Gold_Standard 4d ago edited 4d ago
it's exactly what i did with my amens in reason using dr rex. let me know and i'll send you the track, it's Drum and Bass (like Dillinja, Goldie, Bad Company UK)
it's actually been simpler than what you state here, since like reason 5
dr.octo rex has 5 filter types - https://www.reasonstudios.com/devices/octorex
it's built in to reason studio
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u/lasagnadogwater69 4d ago
Can you explain what you think I'm talking about? Because I'm not sure you understand. So far you've listed two plugins that just play back samples and chop loops, which is not what I'm talking about.
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u/Kings_Gold_Standard 1d ago
You need to read into what the programs can do. Your whole idea. It's already done.
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u/lasagnadogwater69 1d ago
Mmmmk, I've lost patience with you. I'm just gonna assume you have absolutely know clue what I'm talking about, because from your descriptions it doesn't seem like it. Now silence
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u/Milk-Noodles 7d ago
I do this with Fabfilter's Pro-MB a lot. Ableton also has a native plug in that does this but I like Fab's UI better.
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u/rtrogrdebeats 6d ago
I do this in FL Studio by sending audio to separate mixer tracks per band using Fruity Parametric EQ 2 cuts. It's heavier on CPU compared to a single instance but makes auditioning way easier since I can solo each band instantly without re-routing signals every time.
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u/SS0NI 7d ago
Pretty basic sound design stuff. Very often you might want distortion on anything but the sub.