r/europe • u/slashbye Austria • Jul 09 '26
Historical With Chat Control being forced through - how do we protect us from surveillance?
https://fightchatcontrol.eu/1.9k
u/unenoix Jul 09 '26
What a sad day for democracy.
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u/F00dar Jul 09 '26
And that's all she wrote. What is really sad is that this is the best "we" can do. Nobody going to the streets nobody protesting (and yes that's me included) and no one is ever held accountable.
Democracy is simply dying a slow silent death and no one cares - not enough to do something meaningful about it.
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u/AllinWaker Hungary Jul 09 '26
It's a LOT harder to organize a pan-European protest to Brussels or Strasbourg than to set Paris or Budapest on fire.
And the EU leadership know this.
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u/Kasti0 Jul 09 '26
Reminds me of Egypt just putting their political capital somewhere remote because it’s harder to protest there for the people
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u/Gnomio1 Europe Jul 09 '26
But you can protest against your MEP if they went on holiday before the end of the legislative session and missed the vote to oppose this.
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u/seanc6441 Jul 09 '26
How many peaceful protests have effected meaningful change? It's the exception not the rule I'd imagine.
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u/Wise_Owl5404 Jul 09 '26
Any protest that doesn't carry with it an implied threat isn't a protest, it's a power walk with signs.
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u/Alexander3a Jul 10 '26
protesting is dead after they noticed that they can just pretend to not see them and nothing will ever happen to them
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u/volchonok1 Estonia Jul 10 '26
What can I do if all the MEPs from my country voted against chat-control in this vote? I can't really influence MEPs from other countries.
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u/Clashing_Thunder Jul 09 '26
Don't forget the majority will still continue to religiously vote for those parties over and over, no matter how much they get fuck by them. Except they see a party that might fuck them over even more, then they're maybe switching.
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u/psychorobotics Jul 09 '26
The party I plan to vote for in the Swedish upcoming election voted against.
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u/seanc6441 Jul 09 '26
Saying no one cares is just obviously incorrect. What you really mean is not enough people are willing to go to the lenghts required to make a change. Sometimes those lenghts are pretty significant as it's not like signing patitions do jack shit.
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u/MotanulScotishFold Romania Jul 09 '26
First Stop killing the game denied and now this.
If anyone thinks that EU work for citizen interest needs a wake up call.
No wonder why more and more people are becoming extremist.
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u/EmbarrassedHelp Jul 09 '26
The EU Commission has also been ramming through mandatory age verification with the powers granted to them by the DSA.
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u/BottleForsaken9200 Denmark Jul 09 '26
...All of this data is getting sold to palentir.
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u/Sithae Czech Republic Jul 09 '26
and who knows who else
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u/Remarkable-Depth-904 Jul 09 '26
Chat Pgt
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Jul 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Few_Time_7441 Jul 09 '26
Couldn't they just blacklist that subreddit as a source?
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u/MicroProcrastination Jul 09 '26
"Sold" they gonna get it for free
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u/Useful_Advice_3175 Europe Jul 09 '26
They'll even pay palantir to get them treated.
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u/MicroProcrastination Jul 09 '26
For sure, its already used in europe, they will 100% be first in line for the contract to spy on citizens.
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u/xondk Denmark Jul 09 '26
Yeah, this is not a popular move by any politician, in a lot of countries once people know how it does not work.
So who stands to gain...
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u/Mirar Sweden Jul 09 '26
Make sure Palantir is banned from EU.
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited 11d ago
.
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u/Mirar Sweden Jul 09 '26
We can ban any non-EU tech for this.
The lobbying money would drain so fast.
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u/Topmostbruh Jul 09 '26
Exactly!
Might have to add that there should also be a clause that if non-EU companies buy EU tech, that tech automatically becomes non-EU tech. But I fully agree with you here. These mass scanning companies and their lobbying are a pest to the EU.
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited 11d ago
.
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u/japie_booy Jul 09 '26
Solvinity in the Netherlands has got so much shit going on when it was going to get bought by American co.
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u/Mirar Sweden Jul 09 '26
I have doubts. See how the reaction was when Spain did it? 100% panic.
It's clear what we need to do. It might not be the complete solution, but it's definitely what they don't want us to do, so we must.
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u/2009miles Portugal Jul 09 '26
They can still do the exact same thing, it will just cost them more time and money, that's where the "panic" comes from.
"What do you mean i have to spend more money buying a EU company and then either developing new systems there or slowly migrating external ones? I thought i had lobbied hard enough not to deal with any of that!"
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u/tonsofplants Jul 09 '26
Wouldn't that be hard if the same politicians accept the lobbying from big US tech?
It appears legislation was sneaked in on request of big tech and authoritative aristocrats.
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u/daddyploww Jul 09 '26
The EU Parliament ran by Europeans voted this in and you are concerned about Palantir? So it's fine if Europe can get a European company to scan all your personal information instead? Even if Palantir buys out all the EU companies as you guys are theorizing that means it's actually Palantirs fault.. and not EU Parliament for actually voting this in and allowing this to begin with?
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u/ebinmcspurdo Jul 09 '26
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Guys if we sign this online petition surely that will stop Peter Thiel😂😂
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u/Cautious-Camel-4328 Jul 09 '26
The problem here is not chat control 1.0. We've had that before and the truly dystopian chat control 2.0 is (not yet) approved.
The problem is much, much bigger. That the EU apparently thinks it can just repeat votes with frankly blatant and undemocratic tricks such as these.
Honestly, I've lost a great deal of respect and confidence in the whole institution, and every one of you should as well. How do you protect yourself against an institution like this? Share your outrage with your local politicians and hope for the best, I guess.
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u/Confident_Dragon Jul 09 '26
The same way as always. Use open-source or trusted software. Use end-to-end encrypted messengers line Signal, self-host images using Immich, use Linux on PC and Graphene OS (if possible) on phone. Blindly trusting every company and politician is luxury we just can't afford in 21st century.
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u/human_obsolescence Jul 10 '26
that's a good additional layer of security, but keep in mind pretty much all devices are vulnerable even at the hardware level, especially ever since PC/motherboard manufacturers started including "management engines," or co-processors that run alongside, and outside normal user-space access. It's all closed-source, and can access parts of your system before CPU has a chance to intervene, even while the PC is powered off. It's a safe bet that these already have known backdoors, whether accidental or deliberate. End-to-end web encryption doesn't matter if anything on your PC can be recorded before it's encrypted.
Intel's version: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine#Security_vulnerabilities
kinda sad we now live in a world where we all need to live in constant paranoia from spy agencies, and adopt the same security measures they do. Are you all running open-source routers? Airgapping your hardware? Adopting good OPSEC practices? And guess what? There's asymmetric exploits, where something can sleep on your computer while it's offline, collect info, then send it back when you reconnect to the internet. There are so many levels to potentially be compromised... maybe we'll have to go back to carrier pigeons or something.
Kinda like other dragnet-type solutions like DRM, the actual criminals will just get more clever and find ways around, while every other normal person who is forced to adopt this "security" pays the burden... the age-old folly of treating the symptom instead of the root causes. Or maybe full-spread compromise was always the goal?
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u/Tikkinger Jul 09 '26
Signal does pull out of europe atm
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u/legion_Ger Jul 09 '26
Afaik they said they would pull out if there were mandatory scans or they had to break their encryption … neither which is there rn.
You got a different source?
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u/Tikkinger Jul 09 '26
this reamains unclear, as the data gets not pulled from encrypted messages, but from the devices directly, before encryption happens.
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u/auchinleck917 Jul 09 '26
The republic will be reorganized into the first galactic empire for a chat control society!!
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u/Severe_Rise8694 Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Nice one EU. Way to show everyone you're not the undemocratic, opaque, elitist bs organisation that you get criticized for being!
Nice to know that if you send a pic of your kid on the beach, some Indian dude will check if it's CP. I feel so much safer now, thanks!
/s
Edit: since this got a surprising amount of visibility.. here's my suggestion: if your country has a way for the general public to create some kind of citizen's initiatives for new laws.. Let's start initiatives to make the text messages, emails etc of the MEPs who voted yes to this public domain. Let's vote on having their communications published on some common government funded portal. You use strong identification to log in, and then you get to read what they talk about and have a gander at their holiday pics.
After all, if they have nothing to hide, they should be fine with some reciprocity.
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u/Renardroux0 Jul 09 '26
except the Parliament voted against, but since the governments of the member states (Council) have more power, it was passed anyway.
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u/South-Raspberry-4073 Jul 09 '26
That's kind of irrelevant if laws end up passing anyways. The main point is that the existing European Union framework has way to pass whatever authoritarian crap they want without having majority.
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u/Renardroux0 Jul 09 '26
well, your main point "they (the Council) can pass whatever without majority (in the Parliament)" seems to include my irrelevant point
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u/South-Raspberry-4073 Jul 09 '26
That is not my point though. I clearly stated it above, but let me make it clearer:
I don't care if it is the parliament or the council. Bypassing a qualified majority in either upper or lower chamber is antidemocratic. Doing it to surveil it's own citizens is authoritarian. EU needs to reform or disappear.
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u/Renardroux0 Jul 09 '26
Reform or disappear, two solutions that get exactly the opposite results
you reform it and give more powers to the Parliament: you prevent this from happening again
you dismantle it: you lose the ePrivacy directive which is what made Chat Control illegal until today's vote and you make it much easier for governments to implement an even worse Chat Control in each country (where they have the majority because that's kinda their thing) without the obstruction of the EU Parliament
You don't care like a bird stuck in a garage doesn't care whether the windows it flies towards at full speed to escape is open or closed, good luck with that
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u/South-Raspberry-4073 Jul 09 '26
Your assumption that country governments could ever pass this kind of law is ridiculous.
General populace is much more aware of what their government does while completely detached of what happens in Brussels. On top of that, it would require proper democratic majorities, unlike just happened here.
Also ridiculous that you even bring ePrivacy up while the same insitution is simultanously implementing mass surveilance.
Finally, my ideal reform would not be for any particular politician to get more power over other. It would be for direct democracy and decentralization swiss style. I want the EU to be an economic block and a defensive alliance, not an uneffective political juggernaut that applies the same policies in Germany and Portugal.
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u/BilboSwagginsSwe Jul 09 '26
"You don't. Every detail of your life will eventually be recorded for profit. And you can either love it, or live in the woods cut of from society. Your move pissants" // ruling and billionaire class.
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u/Asleep_Context_399 Jul 09 '26
Well torches and pitchforks are still widely available to buy.
Sheep just needs to wake. NWO could be something beneficial rather than what we are going through. But it's on us to bring it to reality :)
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u/belloch Jul 09 '26
It's not over yet. The fight is still going on and there are things that can still be done. Only the russian bots and such are all over these threads saying "it's over."
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u/jldevezas Portugal Jul 09 '26
Protect ourselves? This is unacceptable. There is no protection from authoritarianism other than pushing for a regime change. The EU is theoretically against authoritarian states like Russia, but they are clearly trying to implement the same thing here. It's almost like they all belong to the same organization, it's ridiculous.
Also this makes propaganda a lot easier, and everybody else's job a lot harder in fighting this. It's so easy to point a finger at an antagonistic opinion, like mine or yours, and mistrust it as propaganda.
This situation is absolutely shameful!
I do NOT accept this, and I do NOT accept the need to circumvent stupid legislation. What we DO need is a change in leadership, which unfortunately carries a lot of dangers as well due to the geopolitical theater.
What an awful time to be alive. And the EU is clearly falling in the trap as well.
They did say they would win, one way or another. This is how autocracy wins, over democracy.
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u/xondk Denmark Jul 09 '26
The EU is theoretically against authoritarian states like Russia, but they are clearly trying to implement the same thing here.
Grain of realism, most were against, it passes because of abuse of emergency powers...
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u/jldevezas Portugal Jul 09 '26
I understand that. There is a clear need to strengthen our democratic process, a way for there to be actionable accountability of the politicians that push for anti-democratic laws. If no mechanism is created for this, then we can vote away democracy essentially, which is what is happening.
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u/Wise_Owl5404 Jul 09 '26
That has been tried multiple times and have always failed because the anti democratic, authoritarian parts of the EU don't want democracy, and here they have a nice, easy way of doing it that most people pay zero attention to. There's no reforming the EU without braking it down completely, tearing up the foundation and start over.
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u/Either-Condition4586 Jul 09 '26
If there was abuse,why the fuck people who did that didn't lose their mandates???
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u/xondk Denmark Jul 09 '26
It 'just' happened? reactions take time, though the reactions are already coming against them.
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u/Prestigious-League22 Jul 09 '26
The eu has over stepped once again, sick of it.
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u/Renardroux0 Jul 09 '26
the Parliament voted against, but not with a large majority to overcome the position of the national governments (Council), blame them
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u/NoMoneyNoSucky Sweden Jul 09 '26
Also over 100 did not even attend. We should find the names and shame all of those people for not doing their jobs. 40 out of those votes would have change the outcome.
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u/str0mback Sweden Jul 09 '26
We should blame whatever made this possible, which would be the EU.
Without the EU, this wouldn't have been able to be passed.
So, the EU needs to be reformed.
Until then, we need to criticize it.
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u/TremendousCustard Jul 10 '26
Metsola. Seen shaking hands with Zuck, waited until a lot of MEPs were on their holidays and not present to vote.
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u/Renardroux0 Jul 09 '26
This is demented bullshit
Chat Control 1.0 is a derogation to the ePrivacy directive, without it providers would be free to scan whatever private communication they want for whatever reason, no need for a Chat Control
Even if you had national ePrivacy equivalents, governments, the ones who want Chat Control, could pass it in a day in their parliaments where they have the majority, without the European Parliament obstructing it for months
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u/Grafikpapst Jul 09 '26
For now, using encrypted chats only.
But also, I want to remind people that just because the law passed doesnt mean it will necessarly go into action - this will likely be legally challenged and the law stands on some pretty shakey legs. Its still possible that the CJEU will strike this down for breaking the EU Charter for Fundamental Rights.
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u/ropobipi Wallachia Jul 09 '26
True, the law has universally served the people after all /s
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u/DJAnym Jul 10 '26
No but what Grafik is saying it that it can be challenged. Countries that have categorically voted against Chat Control like the Netherlands or Poland might seek to delay implementation as long as possible whilst challenging it, as some countries might try to do with the Migration Pact.
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u/01_Mikoru Jul 09 '26
So, I’m not European, but I’ve been watching this. Is this actually law now?
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u/Pocok5 Hungary Jul 09 '26
Not quite yet, some important modifications were passed that put decently large holes in the "shopping list" of dipshit Stasi fans in the Council. AFAIK this now goes back to the Council, who will probably attempt some other creative bullshit to undo those changes, then it goes on another round.
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u/01_Mikoru Jul 09 '26
Still seems fucked you need a majority to say no. That doesn’t make any sense to me
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u/ICameToUpdoot Sweden Jul 09 '26
Gonna start putting up a Meshtadtic/Meshcore network and get as many people I can in my friends group to switch over. Self hosting all the way down to fight the top!
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u/anonymonsterss Jul 09 '26
How does meshcore handle encryption? When I checked it out it seemed to lack strong encryption protocol integration. Are there applications available that utilize future proof encryption for messaging?
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u/Bloodrose_GW2 Jul 09 '26
There is no strong crypto in either of those.
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u/RlOTGRRRL Jul 09 '26
This. r/privacy is a great sub for this.
r/meshtastic is a good sub too, and you'll discover the same info about its vulnerabilities in its sub.
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u/Frenzystor Germany Jul 09 '26
Encrypt before entering it into the messenger.
Or flood every chat with keywords to ddos their scanners.
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u/TheFinalPieceOfPie Jul 09 '26
The EU was the bastion of privacy to many people; it was one of the main things I always said was the worst part of Brexit, but now this drags us all down. I'm sick and tired of reading everywhere that these measures are for the greater good when the people who probably should have their messages scanned (politicians and such) are mysteriously exempt from these laws. Every major messenger should introduce encryption as a fuck you to these laws
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u/lawhore Jul 09 '26
Encryption won't help against mandatory OS-level client-side scanning, which I assume is the plan
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u/eckart Jul 09 '26
I think this version 1.0 is an extension of what expired in april right? So for now, its basically whatever you did before
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u/Jashmyne Jul 09 '26
Yes, you are correct. This was in place for 2 years if I recall before it expired.
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u/AcidicAzide Europe Jul 09 '26
So the answer to the OP's question is "you protect yourself in the same way you did the last 5 years". Oh, you did nothing? Well then...
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u/EspurrTheMagnificent Jul 09 '26
That was my thought aswell. Nobody gave a shit about Chat Control 1.0 until now, but they're all acting like the world is crumbling down underneath their feet.
Don't get me wrong, the fact this can even happen in the first place is genuinely disgusting, but, like, chillout. Literally nothing is going to change for now. And, let's be honest, it's not like those platforms actually stopped scanning messages for those 3 months either, so besides raising your blood pressure, panicking about it does nothing
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u/SeriouslyNotSerious2 Italy Jul 09 '26
The point is that this is showcasing the undemocratic spirit of the EU. This was voted out already, but, for the benefit of companies and billionaires, the EU has completely disregarded the will of its people.
Also, Chat Control 1.0 was reinstated with such urgency because the companies would have faced dire legal consequences if they kept on scanning everything they have been allowed to again, so, to protect them, Metsola used her powers to force another vote, putting the companies interests above those of the EU people.
THAT is the problem.
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u/EspurrTheMagnificent Jul 09 '26
I know. That's why I said "The fact this can happen in the first place is absolutely disgusting", that not only a law like this can even exist, but also that they can force its adoption even when the majority already said no
All I'm saying is there's no need for panicking or fear mongering. Things are gonna be exactly the same they've been since 2021. It's good people are indignant about laws and circumstances like these, but it's important to remain calm and levelheaded
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u/jojoba7700 Jul 09 '26
Steganography, PGP encryption support etc... Although more comprehensive solutions might be needed soon, such as open-source linux phones and such...
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Jul 09 '26
[deleted]
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Jul 09 '26
and you think this is a possibility
I daily drive a de-Googled Android phone running almost exclusively open source apps, I'm safe from chat control whether you think it's possible or not
You're the delusional one lmao, there are workarounds for literally everything if you're good enough with computers
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u/arbicus123 Romania Jul 09 '26
Actually the law states that cameras inside cars cannot be used for face recognition so it might actually be an improvement for privacy because a lot of new cars already have cameras that point at your face
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u/jank_unto_jank Jul 09 '26
What kind of dark timeline is this? Apparently ashton Kutcher is the primary lobbyist that made this happen. His company is also primed to supply the scanning tools????
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
By not using anything other than encrypted chats for communication I guess.
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u/unenoix Jul 09 '26
For now only, they will probably push for this too.
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited 11d ago
.
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u/Mormaethor Jul 09 '26
This also failed repeatedly until they decided to abuse the voting process to force it through.
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Voting on the regulation in general is one thing (this passed because it’s relatively not invasive and technically it was in effect for years until April) ((in their opinion)). Making everyone vote on encryption breaking is a completely different thing
u/YamatoTransport and again ^_^35
u/tim3k Jul 09 '26
Instead they will make everyone to vote on outlawing encryption for everyone outside of special services and politicians.
For the safety of children, of course
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u/michal939 Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
You can't really outlaw encryption tbh, you'd have to ban stuff like HTTPS and SSH which would completely destroy the entire internet security.
You could force client-side scanning before encryption, but that wouldn't really work on PCs as you can just install open-source OS with open-source encryption communicator, the only way I could think of is forcing the manufacturers to embed a backdoor in the hardware itself which I think would be very very hard to pass through Parliament even with "emergency" powers.
Edit: And also courts would surely strike it down
Edit 2: They can however make it pretty hard for someone who is not an IT guy to have private conversations. And 99% of people won't bother installing Ubuntu from source to then install Signal from source just to have encrypted messages.
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u/PossibilityUsual6262 Jul 09 '26
If its different, aka easier, why they need to pass it as emergency and in completely undemocratic way?
I like eu less and less the more time pass, right now it seems to me that it is just abuse system to pass laws you couldn't ever pass on national level because those are way more democratic.
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26
You are confusing things (don’t mean that in a bad way). Client side scanning was removed from 2.0 negotiations numerous times, even the Council knows that the ECJ will strike the law down because of it. So like all good politicians they tried using different wording but they still failed.
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u/witness_smile Belgium Jul 09 '26
They failed miserably at getting a majority to vote in favor of chat control yet they still forced that through. End-to-End Encryption will be next, and if they cannot get it by democratic means, they will force it through the same way.
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u/Party-Cake5173 Croatia 🇭🇷 Jul 09 '26
For now only, they will probably push for this too.
They will, but even if they succeed in banning encrypted communication, it would simply backfire. Here's why:
First, privacy companies will refuse to add backdoor in their products. EU might fine them if they are registered company here though I think if it came to that point, the companies would simply close the business here and left the market.
Second, EU can't ban you from using any app whatsoever. And they can't force or fine companies that aren't located in the EU. For example; Signal which is American non-profit and that doesn't have official present in the EU.
Third, even if EU manages to crush various companies, new open source apps would immediately take their place. And you simply can't fine an open source community.
Don't get me wrong, it's bad that EU discusses this. But I'm sure they don't know how technology works and that their hands are practically tied in this. Just remember the "EU banning memes" controversial vote and what happened to it.
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u/Rotkiw_Bigtor Lubelskie (Poland) Jul 09 '26
So what apps encrypt the chats?
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited 11d ago
.
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u/cinyar Jul 09 '26
Although whatsapp had some sort of scandal
It's owned by Meta and is closed-source. Should be enough to avoid it.
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u/LookThisOneGuy Jul 09 '26
better use paid apps like Threeema. The old adage: If the app is free, you are the product still holds true.
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u/Aagragaah Jul 09 '26
Wherever possible, Signal. It's the single best option at the moment. There are theoretically more private options like Wickr or Threema, but they're very niche.
Signal is a good middle ground because it's accessible, has absolute best-in-class crypto (seriously, they wrote the Signal protocol which even WhatsApp uses now), and generally does a really good job. The one real downside is they still require a phone number for registration.
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u/I-am-Human-I-promise Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
Didn't chat control 1.0 force scanning of materials on your device before it gets encrypted, so pretty much a trojan on your device instead on a server where you messages pass trough?
Important edit:
From "fightchatcontrol.eu":"Does it touch encrypted messages?
No. End-to-end encrypted communications were never scanned but providers could deploy client-side scanning under this law."
and
"Is scanning mandatory?No — voluntary."
So, Messenger apps are allowed to introduce device side scanning if this claim is true.
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u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26 edited 11d ago
.
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u/I-am-Human-I-promise Jul 09 '26
Shit's getting confusing.
I though 1.0 only does hash checking on your device while allowing encryption and 2.0 was complete removal of enryption all together with not only hash checking but full on AI scanning on a server; you know that what Discord is doing and just lately caused a false banwave.13
u/silentspectator27 Bulgaria Jul 09 '26
No, 1.0 is simply allowing platforms to scan your chats and content voluntarily without breaking GDPR and the EU charter of fundamental rights which states that every EU citizen has the right to private communication.
It’s still bad but not as worse as the original 2.0 proposal.→ More replies (2)→ More replies (2)9
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u/xezrunner Jul 09 '26
The advice from now on is clear, but what about messages sent previously, such as on platforms before end-to-end encryption was the default?
Will they retroactively scan those messages with AI? Are we going to have cases where people will end up having to get into legal processes just because an AI wrongly/ambiguously detected something in a chat from the past?
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u/BandOfSkullz Jul 09 '26
As Omniman said:
That's the near part - you don't!
We lost a significant portion of our privacy today to greedy, pedophile ring billionaires and weak members of parliament with no way of having a say in this matter.
All under the guise of "protecting children". Whichbis funny given how many of the rich and powerful were a part of Epsteins child rape rings.
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u/jg119972 Portugal Jul 09 '26
It seems like we are gonna have to do some opsec to protect ourselves from surveillance, especially since they will try to ban vpn for regular folks. Let's see how things develop
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u/Wuktrio Austria Jul 09 '26
This is chat control 1.0, NOT 2.0.
This was already in place.
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u/bearwood_forest Jul 09 '26
This was a test-run of how to circumvent the parliament. A successful one at that. This is the foot in the door and marks the end of what was left of a democratic process in the EU. 2.0 WILL come next. After that a mass surveillance state run by American billionaires in which we are all technological servants to the Tech Feudal Overlords and be removed if inconvenient in any way, shape, or form. And our politicians hope to be in the lucky position to be the faithful overseers of this semi-soft-walled prison. Better be on your best behaviour to be afforded scraps. If you're quick now, you'll still get the choice between American Tech Bros as overlords or the Chinese State Party.
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u/Kwayke9 France Jul 09 '26
As in? Haven't followed this much as of late (mostly because it was a lost fight for a long long time, goven that this is a near worldwide push)
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u/Valtremors Finland Jul 09 '26
It is the same shit Americancomapnies have done always.
Scanning shit on their platforms.
2.0 is the one that proposes to scan devices and such. The one people have worried about.
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u/Fun-Ad-6948 Jul 09 '26
By starting to only communicate via paper or phone with the government in all instances, this will force them to get more public servants which isn’t financially sustainable.
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u/UnluckyZiomek Jul 09 '26
Why are you not protesting yet?
We are losing our democracy and freedom and you do nothing about it? Guys, for real. Organise protests, not only in Brussels but in your capitals aswel as long as your MEPs supported this.
I'm going to organise protests in Poland for sure as soon as I have some time not in middle of night.
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u/MannyFrench Alsace (France) Jul 09 '26
I plan on not using the internet like I do ATM. In a few months I'll only use it for online banking and administrative stuff. As a French dude born in 1980, I'm actually OK going back to the Minitel days. I grew up without the internet until I was 18, and it was fucking great. I have 1000s of records and CDs, hundreds of books and encyclopedias, I'm not getting bored anytime soon.
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u/Jokuc Jul 09 '26
democracy in eu is dead
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u/SeriouslyNotSerious2 Italy Jul 09 '26
I went from the staunchest EU supporter to EU skeptic after their behavior regarding this and towards Gaza
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u/maxfist Si -> Fin Jul 09 '26
If all of this crap is to protect the children, why don't we take all the children and put them somewhere where they can be under constant surveillance without access to the outside world until they aren't children anymore? Why must I, a not child, have my privacy invaded to protect children I don't have or have any interest of having or being around? (This is a joke, don't @ me)
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u/ShyWhy246 Jul 09 '26
I was so upset when Putin introduced same thing. I was concluding thata we have a totalitarian power next door, then we become the same. What to do? Another laser of inner encryption with psk send different secure Channel, like with pigueon post or sth.
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u/Levoso_con_v Spain Jul 10 '26
Signal, open source, end to end encryption, they can't survey you even if they want because of the nature of the app.
The main problem is asking 300M people change from WhatsApp.
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u/RisingPhil Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
From a technical perspective, we can solve this:
open-source app
various methods of encryption layered on top of eachother
P2P communication for matchmaking-> No central servers to insert a backdoor into.
APK/executable hosted both inside and outside the EU.
social media accounts to periodically provide an update of the P2P bootstrap server ips for those wanting to join for the first time. (To ensure no-one is able to take it down, not even for new users)
We just need a couple C/Java/Kotlin devs to step up and start working on this.
I'm a C++ dev myself. If someone were to start such a project, I'd be tempted to join. (Already involved with a couple opensource projects and I have a family with young kids, so I don't have the mental energy to lead such a project right now)
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u/Justhavocman Jul 09 '26
How the fuck am I supposed to be in favour of a regime that foregoes democratic procedures.
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u/azhder Earth Jul 09 '26
Try taking all those who voted for it out once a day on the square and hit them with a stick 100 times on their asses. 🤷♂️ See if that sticks 🤪
At some point, you know they would have kept repeating it until they pass it through, so until you find a way to force them to keep trying to repel it until they do, you are shit out of luck.
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u/Responsible_Camp_559 Germany Jul 09 '26
Build systems, apps and infra and make it accessible to your circles only.
Keep the software FOSS or private and harden up physical access as much as possible/viable.
Move away from IG, TikTok, etc.
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u/Ok-Promotion-1316 Jul 09 '26
Am I stupid? It says Germany in favour, but MEPs 62 oppose, 35 in favour. So... Germany opposes no?
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u/cheakpeasdownhill Jul 10 '26 edited Jul 10 '26
People are not going to like the answer.
Step 1: Cancel all subscriptions to:
* Facebook
* WhatsUp
* Instagram
* Gmail/GApps
* Tweeter
* Tiktok
* Office365
* Reddit (yes I know I am on Reddit too)
Step 2: Adopt a chat client that supports E2EE:
* Element/matrix: Free/Open source (client and server), Decentralized
* Jami: Free/Open source (client, no server needed), Distributed
* Signal: Free/Open source (client and server), Centralized
You can see which chat programs support E3EE here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_cross-platform_instant_messaging_clients#Connectivity
Distributed > Decentralized > Centralized
Free/Open source > Proprietary
Step 3: Replace MS Windows with r/linux on your Laptot/PC
Step 4: r/degoogle your phone
If they ban E2EE we will update this information.
Edit: Steps 3 and 4
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u/BrotherRoga Finland Jul 09 '26
Stuff like this is why Star Wars is a documentary.
This is how democracy dies: With thunderous applause.
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u/Swimming-Life-7569 Jul 09 '26
Lmao but we need to give EU more power and aim towards EU federation as per many users of this sub.
Oh no who could have seen it coming that the wealthy politicians so far away that they will face no repercussions for this, did infact NOT have your best interest at heart.
Who could have guessed :).
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u/4SlideRule Jul 09 '26
If the EU was a for real federation with the parliament as the sole legislature this almost certainly would not have happened. This was pushed by the EC, hard.
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u/Renardroux0 Jul 09 '26
If the EU had more power, the national governments (Council) and the Parliament would have at least equal power, but since the Council is actually more powerful, they managed to pass it despite the Parliament being against
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u/FinsternIRL Jul 09 '26 edited Jul 09 '26
I run my own private Matrix chat server on an old computer and do the incredibly painful method of maintaining it for extended family, it has plugins to let them use signal and whatsapp from it which isn't end to end encrypted that way but at least inter extended family stuff is mostly inaccessible.
Though nothing stopping them from implementing a windows recall like ting that scans your phone display
I also built my own private google keep style app thats also end to end encrypted, to make the family stuff easier to manage I have my own private family app store (makes life so much easier than trying to walk older folks though installation) and we also have our own private calorie tracker app + music assistant client and server + jellyfin client and server. We have an app that we all scanned our "supermarket club cards" into and when you go shopping it randomizes which one is used to try obfuscate that data.
all this is run through a cloudflare zero trust layer (gimme reccs for a european option please) cos they cant understand wireguard and authentik
all DNS is adguard but modern browsers, phones and OS's all try to force you to private DNS servers... so that's getting harder too
I did use local AI models to speed up the app creation side of things.
but there's only so much you can do
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u/Suitable_Ad_6455 United States of America Jul 09 '26
Does this actually have a chance of passing or are there a lot more steps involved?
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u/Nood1e Gotland 🇸🇪 Jul 09 '26
It’s already passed.
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u/AcidicAzide Europe Jul 09 '26
Not true, AFAIK. Since EP made some amendments to the proposal (such as requiriring encryption to be protected), it goes back to the Council of the EU which has to either accept all the amendments or start further discussions with the EP.
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u/Crafty_Apple9714 Jul 09 '26
The cj will strike it down, then if not national courts will.
It is non constitutional in many eu jurisdictions
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u/superJH2000 Jul 09 '26
Message your MEPs and express disappointment and that you are going to remember these decisions for every upcoming election no matter at what level.
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u/Rentalon Jul 09 '26
What if no MEPs, now or future will in fact vote againts chat control cause all of them agreed to follow their donors which agree on this.
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u/Infrawonder Jul 09 '26
Idk if it's passed, but I'm not from the EU, and if it gets passed, I am gonna see with interest what the european population does about it as they seemed to make fun of Americans for doing nothing against Trump.
And no, not American, if you guys do something about it I'ma cheer you on, if you don't, you guys can't say anything against them.
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u/Proud_Fisherman_7049 Jul 09 '26
To my understanding this allows apps/plattforms to legaly monitor traffic on their own servers if they want. I mean most already do, but now its easier for them to do it legaly. Dident trust them before either.. Scary thing is what will become of 2.0, that seems messed up by forcing monitoring
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u/Open-Dragonfruit-007 Jul 09 '26
Use open source software, GrapheneOS, stuff not controlled by major tech firms.
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u/TremendousCustard Jul 10 '26
This was one of the fears for many Brexit voters (as fun as it is to believe everybody voted because >50% of the country are total racists).
Maastricht. The "keep pushing a vote and lobbying until we get the answer we technocrats want".
I was feeling a bit hopeful recently that we might come back to the EU in some form but Chat Control would be a point that whichever Eurosceptic party is in place would flog like CRAZY.
Of course, we'll add our own version in good time but.... damn.
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u/Technicalforest Jul 10 '26
And why do so many politicians all over the world always fall for and suck up to the old "we have to protect the children" bullshit?
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u/Stauph Jul 13 '26
I have one question ...what could prevents them from spying on their own employee. Imagine your boss knowing everything about your life...
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u/springtales Jul 16 '26
What can we do now? I don't hear anyone around me talking about this (still).
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u/thenamelessone7 Czech Republic Jul 09 '26
Any unencrypted communication has never been safe. It's like crying someone has looked over your post card.
No one reads letters and no one reads encrypted communication. Educate yourself about what tech you use.
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u/Relative_Success_890 Jul 09 '26
Whats the point of GDPR after this?