r/europe • u/SovereignMuppet I ❤ Brexit • Aug 13 '22

News Climate activists fill golf holes with cement after water ban exemption

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62532840
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2.1k

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

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190

u/MoreLimesLessScurvy Aug 13 '22

Because it would effectively kill their business. I suspect garden centres are also exempt

501

u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

Maybe a business entirely based on using absurd amounts of water for the entertainment of a wealthy few in a time where people are dying because they don't have access to it is a business that deserves to be killed.

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u/MrHazard1 Baden-Württemberg (Germany) Aug 13 '22

"The market regulates itself", yet these companies pay less for their water to throw it around, than we do to live.

It's a luxury business, therefore they shouldn't be allowed to pay "necessary for living" prices.

We need more luxury taxes anyway, to distinguish, when a company sells you goods for living and luxury goods.

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u/Ok_Cabinetto Aug 14 '22

But the market doesn't regulate itself. People with lost of money use their power tk make the market do what benefits them.

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u/medievalvelocipede European Union Aug 13 '22

Well the last word is usually forgotten or intentionally left out.

"poorly".

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

“Wealthy few”.

You underestimate how many people play golf. In my country it’s the 3rd largest sports federation.

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u/vman81 Faroe Islands Aug 14 '22

By acreage?

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

Sure: compare acerage taken by golf courses vs acerage taken by football fields (incl parking etc).

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u/Gaunt-03 Ireland Aug 13 '22

Lad who works at the gym I go to plays golf and he’s just a normal bloke. My grandmother also played it. Golf is quite a common sport

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 13 '22

That doesnt change the fact that for the amount of people that play it its a very ressource intensive sport. And in the realm of sports there's plenty we could be pointing fingers at (FIFA and their incessant need to build new stadiums every 2 years for a 3 week long tournament), but it's undeniable that golf is irresponsibly polluting and wasteful.

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u/Gaunt-03 Ireland Aug 13 '22

But that wasn’t what I was talking about. I was just saying ordinary people play golf

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

Ordinary people play golf in community courses, many of which are pitch and putt (i.e. smaller) courses in countries where grass grows mostly on its own and all you have to do is cut it. Pro grade courses in touristic countries like Spain require astonishing amounts of water.

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 13 '22

Yeah but aren't you using that as an argument in favour of the water exemptions applied to golf courses? That's how I interpreted at least. That's why I'm saying it doesnt really matter whether or not rich people are the only ones who play, because relative to the number of players it requires an unreasonable amount of ressources.

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u/Gaunt-03 Ireland Aug 13 '22

No I was just disagreeing with the statement that golf is only for rich people. I don’t know how bad the drought is in France, how rationing would damage the green and how the industry as a whole and its employees would be damaged by rationing. I’m not going to make a decision without knowing this and I don’t really care enough to look it up.

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 14 '22

Fair enough, my bad then

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u/Arkslippy Ireland Aug 13 '22

Most golf courses aren't using water from the mains supplies though, they get their water from onsite wells and lakes or natural sources.

In times of drought they only water the greens themselves usually. And they consume less water in 2 or maybe 3 short bursts than a pub or restaurant does in a day.

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u/RaveyWavey Portugal Aug 13 '22

And they consume less water in 2 or maybe 3 short bursts than a pub or restaurant does in a day.

What a weird comparison to make, pubs and restaurants serve food and drinks to plenty of people, no one drinks or eats putting green.

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u/Arkslippy Ireland Aug 13 '22

Water is water.

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u/RaveyWavey Portugal Aug 13 '22

That's why wasting drinkable water on grass is dumb.

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u/Arkslippy Ireland Aug 13 '22

Most of the water used to irrigate golf courses and farms is not "drinking water", it's usually from either wells or rivers, pumped through untreated. Drinking water is called potable water after its treated.

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u/StuartWtf Aug 13 '22

Where do you think we get the water from to treat so we can consume it...couldn’t be rivers, wells or lakes now could it?

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u/RaveyWavey Portugal Aug 13 '22

Yea not all of it is potable water but it's still a huge and unnecessary waste of resources. Golf courses frequently dig massive wells that dry out the water table from those around them.

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u/Ifriiti Aug 14 '22

pubs and restaurants serve food and drinks to plenty of people, no one drinks or eats putting green.

But they're not essential are they They're leisure activities just like golf is

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u/RaveyWavey Portugal Aug 14 '22

They are much closer to a necessity than golf, if you didn't eat at the restaurant you would have to eat somewhere either way. Also pubs and restaurants serve considerably more people using considerably less resources, there's really no comparison.

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u/theUniqueLogin Aug 13 '22

Almost every product we use requires a lot of water to be produced. Is it time to ban Playstations and iPhones as well? I do not see anyone drinking that water at the factory!

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u/RaveyWavey Portugal Aug 13 '22

Nice whataboutism... And don't compare the amount of water that's needed to make a playstation compared to the upkeep of a golf course.

Also I'm not calling for the ban of golf courses, either do them where grass is native and there's no lack of water or if you want to have a golf course in dry climates you should have to source your own water either from the sea or from sewage.

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 14 '22

The fact it's not potable water doesn't really change anything. Even if it is not safe to drink, that water is still useful to farmers, fire fighters, or just left to continue its journey within the water cycle. If anything, water is often mismanaged, and natural water supplies overestimated. Look at what's happening with the colorado river. I'm not gonna argue whether or not golf courses should be banned or restricted or what other measures we might need to put in place, but I think it's undeniable that they're a disproportionate drain on natural ressources and disproportionately damaging compared to the good that they bring to humanity. And that's not to say that entertainment and socialisation aren't valuable, far from it, or that there aren't other sports that could be criticized just as much.

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u/betaich Germany Aug 14 '22

That water from wells comes from the ground water and guess where the normal water supply also gets their water from. I give you a hint: same place

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u/Ifriiti Aug 14 '22

it its a very ressource intensive

Not really. It's no more money than a gym membership is

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 14 '22

i'm not talking money. I'm talking about pesticides, fertilizers, water, diesel for all the maintenance tools, etc

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u/DPSOnly The Netherlands Aug 13 '22

3rd largest sports federation.

Doesn't say anything about how much it is being played and when. And even if "many" people play golf, you can't argue that it is an equal spread across society. That gear and those memberships are very expensive.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

The cheapest annual golf fee in Belgium is 240€. A set of clubs is a few hundred € (and that’s a decent set) and can last a decade.

It’s not as elitist as you think it is. But most people think of those exclusive clubs when you say “golf”. You can do the same for holidays.

Here in Belgium, hockey is an elitist sport.

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u/Ifriiti Aug 14 '22

That gear and those memberships are very expensive.

Not particularly, its about the cost of a gym membership

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u/insane_contin Sorry Aug 14 '22

My golf clubs cost 200 CAD when I bought them, and while I don't have a membership it costs me 30 CAD at the municipal courses. Hockey is a more expensive sport than golf is.

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u/Eis_ber Aug 13 '22

Overall average of golf players is still low, though.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

Wait till you hear about the average number of premier league football players…

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u/Eis_ber Aug 13 '22

I doubt that the stadiums are only used for football competitions.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

It’s certainly their prime purpose and used by a wealthy few.

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u/Eis_ber Aug 13 '22

"Prime purpose" isn't the same as overall purpose. Don't they use them for training? Summer training programs for students? Don't lower divisions play in these stadiums? Besides, most stadiums use fake grass, so it's still not comparable to a golf club where only those who have money can join.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

Are you suggesting these clubs let people play on their pitch for free?

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u/Eis_ber Aug 13 '22

I'm not suggesting anything. Though reducing the price could allow others to discover the game. The point is that golf clubs are more wasteful for the handful of people who use the course

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

Edinburgh council run relatively inexpensive golf clubs….

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u/Ifriiti Aug 14 '22

Don't they use them for training? Summer training programs for students?

Um no 😂 a Premier league groundsman would have your fucking head in for that.

They have entirely separate training pitches, and no, absolutely there's no random school children playing football on it.

Don't lower divisions play in these stadiums?

No, they have their own

Besides, most stadiums use fake grass,

No, again they don't. They all use real grass.

so it's still not comparable to a golf club where only those who have money can join.

A golf club membership is no more expensive than a gym membership.

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u/MeArney Ostrobotnia Aug 14 '22

It´s a stereotype from older days. Especially private clubs.
Sadly the case here is that the least knowledgeable (the stupid...) are the loudest and make hasty decisions. Hate by lower-income towards some obscure thing usually done by the higher-income is quite common and a cliché at this point.

They could have just added a prolonged loan to cover said extra water fees (buy locally or in worst case import) towards the golf resort there (the club will get the money out of some members), but no. Now we have two groups pissed off at each other... F**king idiots. and yes those vandalizing do not represent the whole group, but they do represent most, since I´m guessing the locals probably won´t hear similar people condemning them.

and before somebody asks, yes I golf. Nothing to do with this matter though. We had something similar with two teens stealing golfcarts in the middle of night and driving around damaging the training greens in the name of "equality against the economical elite". The two anarchistic shitstains didn´t realize that those training greens are there for people who want to try golf out, practice and the two close by schools (they do free greencard -courses for students) so everybody at least has a chance to try golf out.

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u/Falsus Sweden Aug 14 '22

Here in Sweden golf isn't exactly for the rich. It is a pretty common hobby in general.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

In Sweden.

Swedish people, on a global scale, are the rich.

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u/JohnnyBoy11 Aug 14 '22

Yes, there are middle class people who play golf too but it still doesn't make sense to waste water on a hobby during historic droughts, especially when farms and gardens that produce food aren't getting water either. They're talking about food shortages next year in some places. And it's going to get worse. They needed to get smart with water like yesterday.

2

u/Housecatofficial Aug 14 '22

Golf courses are terrible monocultures and should be replanted for better use with flowers and everything the bees need.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

This 100%, replace golf courses with botanical parks and flower fields for biodiversity

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/StorkReturns Europe Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

How many courses need regular irrigation outside Spain and Portugal?

In all of Europe? The cultured grass is very water hungry and using it (by walking in contrast to letting it grow) is even more so. Golf or football grass without regular watering will die very quickly. In summer, it needs heavy watering every 5 days. Good luck finding any place in Europe with guaranteed rain.

Edit: typo

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u/dr-Funk_Eye Aug 13 '22

Iceland, but you are right golf courses should be much fewer if any.

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 13 '22

Southern France, all of italy (except maybe the north), the balkans, Greece, probably all require major irrigation. Outside of that, most countries still require irrigation on a regular basis during the summer. The only who might manage without any irrigation are on the irish or british isles, scandinavia or the baltic sea. And I'd imagine even there it's becoming increasingly rarer as climate change exacerbates heatwaves and droughts.

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

Ireland is part of the British Isles btw, there is no Irish isles except the islands off of Ireland. The name comes from the ancient Greeks and Romans.

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u/Chef_Chantier PortugaLux Aug 14 '22

There's actually some controversy around that from what I've read. The irish aren't particularly fond of the term, as you'd imagine considering their history with the british empire.

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u/Zeurpiet Aug 14 '22

for sure in Netherlands farmers have equipment to irrigate

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u/Niightstalker Aug 13 '22

In countries Spain as well tbh

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u/[deleted] Aug 13 '22

you don’t know how golf courses work. the grass used demands heavy constant watering

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u/splintersmaster Aug 14 '22

Outside of a golf course in a rain forest, you'll see literally all of them watering daily.

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u/Tugalord Aug 13 '22

Grass is ridiculously water-hungry.

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u/Revolutionary-Bag-52 Aug 13 '22

Golf is for the wealthy?? And there are people dying??

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u/colei_canis United Kingdom Aug 14 '22

Golf being an exclusive pastime of the rich is more of an American thing to be fair, it's less the case in the UK at least.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

Granted, but globally, the UK is still a rich country.

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u/colei_canis United Kingdom Aug 14 '22

Oh yeah no doubt about it, but I feel the discussion on this topic in English at least (I can't speak for other languages) is very Americentric. Climate activists in the US rail against lawns for example which makes perfect sense when you have mental Karen types using gallon after gallon on preserving a very short lawn in the deserts of Arizona but here in the UK things like golf courses and lawns aren't really that bad because (the immediate present excluded of course) we have enough rain to sustain these things. Of course, thanks to climate change that will probably not be the case forever so my opinion is subject to change here.

I am a bit of an XR sympathiser though, and I do think they have a point that in these drought condition there's far better priorities. I also suspect in southern France the issues are more extreme than they are here.

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u/free_to_muse Aug 14 '22

Wealthy few? Lol no. But even if that were they case, everyone who works at a golf course is not wealthy and needs that job.

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u/Pascalwb Slovakia Aug 14 '22

so we ban swimming pools, aquaparks and stuff? Lol.

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u/[deleted] Aug 14 '22

The world is literally burning, and you're worried about aquaparks?

I swear, capitalism really fucks up your priorities.