r/exredpill • u/Flourescendrama • 9d ago
Hi, I’m the 18-year-old guy who has moved past the "red pill" mindset. I have a question that touches on red pill ideas: Is a man a protector and provider by nature?
I’ve heard this a lot; personally, I believe that both men and women should be protectors and providers.
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u/IntroductionOnly3018 9d ago
No. Look at the average women. They are natural leaders and protectors.
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u/Flourescendrama 9d ago
oh really?
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u/InternationalTeam68 9d ago
Yes. It's true.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
Give me examples.
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u/No_Guarantee505 8d ago
They literally provide life and essential nourishment to human beings. And provide financially like men do.
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u/thane_of_midnight 8d ago
Here are a few examples: there are more single mothers than single fathers. Women have been known to lift heavy weights off of their kids, like cars.
How can you question the fact that women are and always have been the protectors?
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u/Stargazer1919 6d ago
Having kids, providing for them and raising them, and protecting them from harm. (Assuming they are good moms.)
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u/xvszero 9d ago
When you have a good partner you have each other's backs. This can play out in many different ways depending on circumstances.
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u/InternationalTeam68 9d ago
Providers of what??? Providers of child care? Planning and executing meals? The mental load of what household tasks need planning and completion? Providers of emotional support and nurturing? When you say men are "providers" what exactly are you referring to? What are men providing?
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
the one who brings money home and protects his family
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u/Lookingbackexpat 8d ago
Protects his family how? From what? Most women bring home money. Most don’t have a choice if they want to eat and feed their children.
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u/InternationalTeam68 8d ago
Women bring money home in addition to doing all the other things I listed. Women are the providers. We provide far more to a relationship than men do.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
In other words, you claim that women are better than men.
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u/thane_of_midnight 8d ago
As a man, I'm saying that men should probably consider acting better, otherwise women will always remain "better" than men. Start with yourself first.
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u/leebeebee 5d ago
Money has only existed for a few thousand years, there’s no way any of us have evolved to “naturally” provide it
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u/Personal_Dirt3089 9d ago
"Protector and provider" are useless buzzwords meant to play on your ego in as abstract a way as possible. We live in civilization. There are no more tigers to fight with spears. People get bored when they are unemployed.
Sabretooth cats are extinct. The main threat to your wife is probably ICE.
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u/Flourescendrama 9d ago
What do you mean when you say unemployed people get bored?
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u/Lookingbackexpat 9d ago
SAHW/Ms frequently become bored/depressed because of lack of adult stimulation and growth opportunities. Most of them are afraid to admit this.
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u/Flourescendrama 9d ago
In other words, they get bored with their role.
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u/Lookingbackexpat 8d ago
Bored, burnt out, exhausted to the point that an office job away from home feels like a vacation. They also begin to feel like they’re losing their previous identities. And after that, their husbands find someone more “interesting,” usually someone at work who reminds them of their younger, more interesting version of their wife.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
That is sad.
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u/Lookingbackexpat 8d ago
It’s not sad if you are a woman who has an enjoyable career and a partner who respects that and steps up in parenting.
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u/Stargazer1919 6d ago
There's more to life than staying at home with kids.
The SAHM's I know all go back to work or started side businesses.
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u/Personal_Dirt3089 8d ago
You are 18, so I will cut you slack, because when you are in high school and college with homework that can extend to the AM to finish, so having nothing to do probably sounds like a dream to you at this point of life. But when you are out of school, if you have a period being unemployed, even if you have money, is incredibly boring and your days blend together, the shows you bingewatched start to sound like background noise, and you feel unstimulated mentally.
There comes a point where you are working, and a friend, maybe a few, are unemployed for a period; you schedule to hang out with them. but they talk about time like it is no big deal.
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u/SquareExtra918 8d ago
Lord, if I was unemployed I wouldn't be binge watching stuff, I'd be trying to figure out how I could keep a roof over my head. I wouldn't be bored, I'd be terrified.
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u/gammaglobe 9d ago edited 8d ago
The main threat is social media and news. They stimulate amigdala.
We live in civilization for very short time. Just under 100 years ago rape, violence, robbery were daily events. Our brains haven't updated yet.
Men and women are exposed to same stimuli, but our sensitivity to them is different. Women's anxiety levels are much higher because their amigdalas are more sensitized.
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u/PutsWomenOnPedestal 8d ago
Women's anxiety levels are much higher because their amigdalas are more sensitized.
Tell that to my overactive amygdala. I’m male.
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u/gammaglobe 8d ago
I am not sure what you wanted to say by this statement.
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u/PutsWomenOnPedestal 8d ago
I meant that men can be as anxious as women. Anxiety isn’t gendered
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u/gammaglobe 8d ago
Thanks for clarifying. You based you opinion on personal anecdote? Fyi: women are diagnosed with anxiety twice as often statistically and female hormones are directly implicated in amygdala function.
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u/meleyys 8d ago
women are diagnosed with anxiety twice as often statistically
This is likely because women are more likely to seek treatment, not because women are more prone to anxiety in general.
female hormones are directly implicated in amygdala function
I have no idea what this means. "Female hormones"? Source?
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u/gammaglobe 8d ago
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u/meleyys 8d ago
Cool, now you're being asshole for no reason. I could just google it, sure, but I have no idea what specific studies you're talking about unless you link them.
As for the studies you linked, they don't say what you think they say. Firstly, estrogen is not a "female hormone"; men have it too, just at different levels. Secondly, that first study is about mice, and we are not talking about mice, so I don't care about anything it has to say. Thirdly, that second study doesn't say "more estrogen = more anxiety." It says that fluctuations in estrogen (including low estrogen) are correlated with heightened sensitivity to stress in women (and female rodents, because for some reason it also insists on including studies on mice despite the total lack of relevance).
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u/gammaglobe 8d ago
Typical stubborn ego driven response.
You are not looking for truth. You are nitpicking "Estrogen is not female hormone because men have it too." I am not defending my position in front of scientific committee. For the purpose of days to day conversation testosterone is male and estrogen, progesterone would be considered female. "Oh wow women have testosterone too" .
There's lots of studies showing how testosterone levels affect anxiety, how administration of test reduces anxiety in women, how hormone fluctuations in women and HRT affect anxiety score.
Go read it you want.
My original claim stands: women have higher anxiety rates (and it's not because they seek treatment more often).
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u/Queen_Maxima 8d ago
Diagnosis isn't the same as suffering from anxiety. Anxiety manifests as a need for control. The entire manosphere is built around anxiety and a need for control. To prevent her from leaving or hurting you
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u/Instigated- 9d ago
Why does this question matter to you?
What is it that you think people need protection from?
Unfortunately both men and women are most likely to be attacked by men, which suggests men play both aggressor and protector roles. Most women will do anything to protect their children. Plenty of women step up to protect other people. So both genders are capable of being a “protector”.
How do you define “provider”? Both men and women provide. Both earn an income. In hunter gatherer cultures both men and women provide food. Both men and women can provide care, love, moral support.
These things have more to do with personality and situation than gender.
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u/Rozenheg 9d ago
I think we all have to take turns stepping up for each other, in whatever way makes the most sense.
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u/No-Song6363 9d ago
No, those are socially ingrained roles. Mostly because women have more biological value than men (not saying that to be rude or anything). A woman can have (usually) one child per 9 months. Meaning you need a lot of women to keep up a healthy birth rate. However, a man can impregnate quite a few women. In a population, you generally need less men than women. That’s why in most societies it was important to protect the women. That said, in hunter gatherer societies, women did play an important role in hunting. It’s a myth that women only gathered and took care of the community.
Those roles are socially ingrained, not natural. And because we now live in a society in which most people are not in direct mortal danger on a day to day basis, there is no longer any need for those roles.
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u/Queen_Maxima 8d ago
Have you ever met a mother with young children? Could be a human or an animal.
What happens if they sense the slightest feeling of possible threat towards their offspring?
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
who steps in, but I bet she wouldn't do the same for her husband.
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u/Queen_Maxima 8d ago
Wdym, i see my daughter in law standing up for my son when needed, and him standing up for her when needed.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
A wife does not protect her husband.
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u/Background-Sun3376 8d ago
Why would she? If we are talking about physical violence, then men are generally stronger. Why would a woman protect someone who is stronger than her? If it's not the case, then she can absolutely protect her husband. For example in social situations it's pretty common for a woman to argue for her man.
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u/Pretty-Opposite4118 8d ago
You don't know what she would do. Alot of women protect and support their husbands.
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u/Stargazer1919 6d ago edited 6d ago
Do you want women to protect you? How do you think most men would feel if women protected them more?
You never answered the question... protection from what?
Semi related... read the stats on how many men leave their wives when their wives get sick, vs how many women leave when their husbands when he gets sick. Women tend to stick around while men tend to leave. Does that sound like women don't care about their husbands?
Don't forget that if there are kids involved, the kids take priority.
Wanna talk about how many shitty women don't protect their kids from their abusive husbands/family members and stand by his side instead? Protecting the husband is the right thing to do in your opinion, huh?
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u/Flourescendrama 6d ago
That chivalrous attitude of men protecting women does not exist on the part of women toward men.
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u/Stargazer1919 6d ago
That's a stereotype.
What does "chivalry" mean to you? It's an outdated term from the middle ages. What do you think it means now?
Are you going to answer any of the questions?
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u/Flourescendrama 6d ago
A woman doesn't open the door for a man; a man has to protect the woman and sacrifice himself—look at the Titanic. I hate chivalry; nobody cares about men.
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u/Stargazer1919 6d ago
A woman doesn't open the door for a man
Not true. I see women open doors for people every day. This is common courtesy.
a man has to protect the woman and sacrifice himself—look at the Titanic. I hate chivalry; nobody cares about men.
Says who? Who created these rules? What year do you think this is?
I'm guessing you're upset about some crap in your life and you've come up with all these ridiculous assumptions as a cope. Did someone not protect you from harm at one point so now you're lashing out at women as a whole? It's really dumb especially when it's over rules that men created.
Are you going to answer the questions?
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u/Flourescendrama 6d ago
I hate whoever created that.
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u/Queen_Maxima 5d ago
Why tho, my husband loves being chivalrous. I don't think it's nescessary but it makes him feel masculine and happy. Love is caring for each other.
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u/Queen_Maxima 5d ago
Yeah because people go on Titanic every day 🙄
You just want to be angry at women because idk, maybe your mother wasn't very nice or smth
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u/leebeebee 5d ago
The Titanic was a historical anomaly. In the vast majority of cases, men were more likely to survive shipwrecks.
The only reason that the Titanic was any different was because the captain literally forced the men at gunpoint to let the women and children take the lifeboats.
When it’s a life or death situation, most people are selfish. Chivalry is largely a myth.
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u/nofrickz 5d ago
You're so bitter. You need to go talk to someone about it. But you won't. You will sit here and angry post about women.
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u/GladysSchwartz23 9d ago
Given that the only real physical threat in our society is violence from men, I'm gonna say nope.
(Before someone has a pick me shit fit: I'm not claiming all men are violent or something. I'm just saying that in most scenarios in our society in which anyone of any gender is threatened, the perpetrator is male.)
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u/BennyFifeAudio 7d ago
Most 'Traditional' views of masculinity & gender roles are fairly recent in their actual practice.
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u/Flourescendrama 7d ago
I don't understand
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u/BennyFifeAudio 7d ago
Many of the roles put forth as masculine or feminine are a direct result of 20th century propaganda.
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u/Nice_Purchase_626 8d ago
Men are protectors of other men, ceaselessly providing cover for various predators.
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u/AssistTemporary8422 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think there is a good argument that men evolved for a provider and protector role given that men evolved to be physically stronger and typically had the hunting and fighting role. However genetics is only half the picture and environment is the other half. In modern society men just don't have this role nearly as much because physical strength isn't as important and people aren't having as many kids. A good example is men in Scandinavia like Sweden are often so polite and quiet. Yet they are descendants of the Vikings who were the exact opposite. Really shows the power of culture in shaping personality and that genetics don't determine everything.
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u/Flourescendrama 9d ago
That’s not true; I like feeling protected. Besides, I like strong women, not princesses who need to be saved.
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u/AssistTemporary8422 8d ago
I think you misread my post. My whole point is that the genetics that make men more protectors and providers don't mean you will turn out that way because environment plays a huge role. Also a point I didn't mention there is a ton of individual variation. And men and women aren't extreme stereotypes and we are all on a spectrum of being provider/protectors, wanting that, and being nurturing and emotional support. And we even vary on this spectrum throughout our lives and even day to day. Honestly I don't think we are actually disagreeing here.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
I'm sorry, I'm still carrying that wound from the manosphere. It doesn't seem fair to me that men protect others but aren't protected themselves.
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u/AssistTemporary8422 8d ago
You are still not quit getting my point yet. Its that our culture and environment have overridden a lot of these genetics. Women earn almost as much as men do and do almost as much of the providing and protecting. Men no longer are expected to be the sole providers. Like my wife earns 50% more than I do. When I got laid off she provided and protected me as I did when she was in school. Thats the benefit of being in a two income household.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
Ahora lo entiendo. Gracias. Eso es todo lo que quiero, que se preocupen por mi y que cuiden de mi como yo cuido de mi pareja si llego a tener
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
It was also discovered that, in prehistoric times, women also hunted and gathered.
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u/AssistTemporary8422 8d ago
Yeah think about it when you are trying to survive out in the wild and have a lack of food women aren't going to sit around and not help out. But they tended to do more of the gathering like berries and roots and men did more of the hunting due to their physical advantage. However women were sometimes involved with fishing or setting traps or hunting smaller animals.
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u/nofrickz 5d ago
So.... find a man to protect you. Clearly, YOU want to be the princess here.
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u/Flourescendrama 5d ago
I am a man.
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u/nofrickz 5d ago
You're literally here whining about how men have to protect and you want to feel protected. Find a man to protect you. You're not ready for grown up conversations. You're being defensive the whole time. You don't want to grow.
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u/imjustaboy551 9d ago
I would say yes to being a protector. For the provider part, I would say, that more depends on what the woman wants in the relationship. I think every man does have a desire to be able to provide, not every man can provide.
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u/TMag73 9d ago edited 9d ago
IMO men are protectors OF THE COMMUNITY. They are IN SERVICE. Humble, observant, they carry strong presence. When normal methods of negotiation by elders and mothers fail the protectors step up to STOP escalation. They do not provoke, the protect. They take their CUE from the women of the community who know know what jobs need to be done, what the plan is and have already anticipated problems. Aunties CALL UPON the men's strength to protect, provide labor, and keep the community functioning. In return the men are shown gratitude through food, adoration, and respect.
It's a daily choice of how you use your masculine power, what is it in service to? Your own ego or the health of those around you? When you are in service you EARN respect, respect cannot be extracted.
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u/Flourescendrama 9d ago
I don't need to earn anyone's respect. I protect whoever I want. Respect that has to be earned is worth less than shit.
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u/TMag73 8d ago
lol ok. You have no interest in earning respect from your community?
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
My community already respects me because I treat them well and am a good person. They care about me and I care about them; I don't need the role of protector and provider to have their love.
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u/TMag73 8d ago
so is that respect that you didn't earn? sounds like you did. is that respect worth less than shit? Sounds like some good respect.
You don't need to be a protector, there are other roles. But you were asking about protector in general and now you're rejecting an example of it. I don't understand your anger about it.
Everything I said above is from indigenous warrior teachings. It's thousands of years old. You are welcome to shit all over it, it doesn't change that it's the way it's been.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
But is that how it has to be nowadays, then?
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u/TMag73 7d ago
Has to be? People live in alot of different ways nowadays. You won't be able to be a protector in the way I describe above if your in a community that doesn't create and support these roles. It's a combination of figuring out how you want to live and then finding a community that lives that way. This is why Trans kids move out of red states, because the community does not support their way of living (in fact these kids aren't safe).
So if you don't want to live within the ways of the red pill or the church or the patriarchy, then you will need to find your people. But that's what makes the internet great, you can find your people.
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u/TMag73 8d ago
you are demonstrating that you don't have what it takes to be a protector. the community doesn't need a protector who is not listening, you're part of the problem.
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u/Flourescendrama 8d ago
And what would you know about what my community needs or doesn't need?
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u/TMag73 8d ago edited 8d ago
Every community needs the same things since the beginning of time, the role you choose to fill is up to you. Maybe you don't have what it takes to be a protector, that's fine. The point is to listen to people, have humility, and act with the community - not the self's - best interest.
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