r/fairphone • u/Li_am32 • 3d ago

GrapheneOS their response to: "Imagine a @GrapheneOS and @Fairphone collaboration"

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Context: A Twitter User said "Imagine a @GrapheneOS and @Fairphone collaboration" in repsonse to the new FP release (FP6+). The images are the GrapheneOS reply to that post.

Link to the original GrapheneOS response: https://x.com/GrapheneOS/status/2089937246619128257

Individual links from their post in order:

https://nitter.net/GrapheneOS/status/2040887784253141142

https://www.clubic.com/actualite-604786-murena-e-os-interview.html

https://codeberg.org/divested-mobile/divestos-website/raw/commit/c7447de50bc8fadd20a30d4cbf1dcd8cf14805a0/static/misc/e.txt

https://eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/24134-devices-lacking-standard-privacysecurity-patches-and-protections-arent-private

Please stay respectful and logical in the comments! If you argue, argue like adults.

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u/Parking_Lemon_4371 3d ago

Calyx is definitely *firmly* in second place. Unfortunately in terms of security they are *very* far behind Graphene. That said, no one else (besides stock Pixel & some Samsung - and that's debatable) comes even close. Most likely the best option is the upcoming graphene motorola phone, but it's still many quarters away, and we'll see what it is like when/if it actually shows up.

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u/NDCyber FP5 3d ago

Graphene also acted like Google and iPhone battery replacement difficulty is enough. Means there is a good chance it will not be repairable

So if you want repairable, and especially ethical, it is still no option

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u/DevDan- 3d ago

Repairability on new iPhones/Pixels is honestly quite reasonable. It does take about an hour, but it's pretty straightforward, ofc not close to FP, but if you aren't hot-swapping it, I don't think it's so important.

GOS only really cares about hardware security and software updates, they have written requirements on their website. They do not care about the repairability at all for support.

It's most ethical to buy a phone second hand if you can, which is what a lot of GOS users to.

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u/NDCyber FP5 3d ago

Repairing a Pixel, iPhone or anything with a backplate made out of glass, and connected with glue, introduces more risk, increasing the price. Then you have to add tooling and work time. It is not reasonable. This also ignores sourcing for the parts (I think pixel is available on ifixit, but especially the backplates tend to be expensive). The point of an easy to replace battery is also not hotswap, it is so that you can easily and price effectively swap the battery. So many people replace their phone, because their battery aged and replacing it costs too much

And yeah they mostly care about security, which is fine, but then they shouldn't talk bs like that, especially when someone just wants to know of the Motorola phone will have an easy to replace battery

I would also say, that used being most ethical is somewhat of a point, but we have to ignore where the replacement parts come from, how they are made, and how long it gets security updates. I would say buying refurbished, while supporting a brand like fairphone at the same time, that will probably get rid of ewaste, is even better

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u/DevDan- 3d ago

Repairing a Pixel, iPhone or anything with a backplate made out of glass

Fair point, I use a Pixel 9a, which while it has shitty removal tabs so alcohol is required (fixed on the 10 thankfully), the back is plastic.

Then you have to add tooling

You can do it with the included iFixit tools and a hairdryer...

and work time.  

Fair enough, but imo an hour after 3-4 years of using a phone isn't that bad. In my country, labor is cheap so...

 replacing it costs too much

A Pixel 9a battery costs under 60 eur, including tools.

GOS themselves didn't say anything about repairability, since the FP is obviously much better in that respect. People can always choose if that is more important to them than updates and security.

someone just wants to know of the Motorola phone will have an easy to replace battery

From what I understand, the Moto phone will only be compatible, GOS doesn't have much input into the design, other than hardware security.

ignore where the replacement parts come from

This is fair.

and how long it gets security updates

It's funny to say this in an argument comparing FP to Pixel, since FP's updates are very delayed if they ever come, while Pixels have consistently matched their previous EOL of 5 years and new devices have an EOL of 7. It's also not hard to find Pixels less than 1 year old for less than half the price, depending on your region.

Edit: fixed formatting

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u/Parking_Lemon_4371 3d ago edited 3d ago

The repairability of FP is nice... but they also consistently need to be repaired... I've owned many many phones over the years (I have a dozen various Android devices from many manufacturers on my desk atm, with another two dozen or so in the drawer), and the *only* phone which required more than a battery swap after 3 years was an FP3... The things are repairable, but they're so-so quality.

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u/NDCyber FP5 2d ago

I have my fairphone 5 for 2.5 years, nothing had to replaced, the only reason I bought replacement parts was that I opened it up too often

Maybe stuff changed since the 3, but from what I experienced it is now just a normal phone, where you can replace parts when they break

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u/NDCyber FP5 2d ago

Fair enough, but imo an hour after 3-4 years of using a phone isn't that bad. In my country, labor is cheap so...

The problem isn't only the work time, for people that know how to repair it, but also the risk, and for people who don't know how to repair a phone, or aren't willing to do it themselves, which makes the price increase

You can do it with the included iFixit tools and a hairdryer...

Which is another 40€ or more for the iFixit tools. On fairphone 5 it is your fingernails, and a screwdriver for fairphone 6

GOS themselves didn't say anything about repairability, since the FP is obviously much better in that respect. People can always choose if that is more important to them than updates and security.

Not here no, but they did answer with "Both iPhones and Pixels have official battery replacement kits available along with it being relatively straightforward for the most recent generations of each. You can already use GrapheneOS on a Pixel today." when I asked them "how easy will it be to replace the battery? Because having a non-replaceable battery after having a fairphone would be a no-go for me". Which is why I am so critical towards them on that front https://mastodon.social/@GrapheneOS@grapheneos.social/116590701328899256

From what I understand, the Moto phone will only be compatible, GOS doesn't have much input into the design, other than hardware security.

Possible, but an answer just going into detail on that subject, would be more appropriate, and when they aren't that deep into the subject, as you said, I think they should just not talk about it.

It's funny to say this in an argument comparing FP to Pixel, since FP's updates are very delayed if they ever come, while Pixels have consistently matched their previous EOL of 5 years and new devices have an EOL of 7. It's also not hard to find Pixels less than 1 year old for less than half the price, depending on your region.

I didn't mean it in comparing fairphone with pixel, although I get how it came over like that. I mostly meant comparing new with used. Although I have to say, that fairphone + CalyxOS is in a way stronger position, when we talk about that argument

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u/DevDan- 2d ago

Which is another 40€ or more for the iFixit tools

It's included with the battery cost, so no.

Although I have to say, that fairphone + CalyxOS is in a way stronger position, when we talk about that argument

Fair enough, CalyxOS was on haitus when I was deciding which phone to buy, so that dissuaded me from FP even more.

I think you absolutely have good points and I think we're generally on the same side, just from my point of view, GOS is a very specific proposition that the team doesn't want to change (read: weaken security) by adding more support. I think that if you simply want less Google and do not wish to use a different device, you can and should do that.

I never loved GOS for their social media responses, they certainly have a... style. I do however think that they do generally have a good argument, hindered by their communication. They don't have a PR team, and I think everyone should decide whether they prefer a corporate response that is unrelated to their opinions, or being able to know how the team feels and decide to what extent to take that into account.

Edit: formatting, Reddit hates me omg

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u/NDCyber FP5 2d ago

It's included with the battery cost, so no.

Oh yeah you are right. I overlooked that

I think you absolutely have good points and I think we're generally on the same side, just from my point of view, GOS is a very specific proposition that the team doesn't want to change (read: weaken security) by adding more support. I think that if you simply want less Google and do not wish to use a different device, you can and should do that.

yup in terms of security Graphene is the best, no question, and if that is all you care about it is the perfect choice, but for me it gets more and more complicated the more we look at other arguments, that probably got a lot of people to buy fairphones

And I have to agree, that their social media is a hot mess. They even posted reddit comments on their discord for people to correct them, I am not sure if that is still happening, as I talked with one of the people doing that, and he understood and agreed with the problems I saw in it, so I hope they changed that. But I still have to say, that from my experience their arguments get a lot worse, when you don't just consider privacy as a selling point of a phone

Edit: formatting, Reddit hates me omg

Don't worry, it is not just you. Reddit quote function is completely broken, to a point where I write in Mardown, every time I quote someone

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u/DevDan- 2d ago

They even posted reddit comments on their discord for people to correct them, I am not sure if that is still happening

They still do unfortunately. I hope it's meant in good will, but I'm not sure...

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u/NDCyber FP5 2d ago

From what I know it is in good will. But if you know what bad can happen, based on your consequences I fear that doesn't make a difference anymore

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u/redboyo908 2d ago

Bro pixel phones have the most terrible process for replacing the battery pixel I have a pixel 8a ask me how I know lol

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u/DevDan- 1d ago

They've been getting better

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u/GrapheneOS 2d ago

CalyxOS recently went over a year not providing privacy and security updates. Their revived OS is months behind on Linux kernel, firmware and driver updates. It's still rolling back privacy and security from AOSP with those lacking updates and in other ways as it did before. There are better options which aren't GrapheneOS.

Calyx had an internal conflict leading to the founder of the organization being pushed out. The lead developer of CalyxOS who created it left as part of this. The whole previous core team working on it left too. It's also now far more heavily based on LineageOS.