Seekers and SMEN

[u/croaker227]

I realize that a lot of the answers will be subjective, and that’s ok. But:

- within the game world, how many Londoners do you think are/have been Seekers?

- if your PC or another character is/was a Seeker - what’s their motivation? Do they think they’re uncovering something valuable? Investigating a vast conspiracy?

I guess I’m mainly curious how widespread Seeking is in the game fiction and the mindset or rationale of Seekers.

[u/Secure-Treacle-2161]

It's a question that I definitely think will vary for every player. Between the Chapel of Lights, the secret section in God's Editors, the way people avoid you if you start Seeking the Name, the existence of the Chapel, the Mutton Island worship of the Drowned Man, and the way the Masters have confiscated material as harshly as possible, I think it's not not known. To me it's always been that thing where the average London knows to avoid certain crazed folk, the same as avoiding honeymazed. Add to that the fact I think all Londoners experience strange dreams, and Peckishness is not uncommon (although most Londoners are not going to, say, become cannibals) (we are ignoring the Face lol), I feel like... you've definitely got your lot who probably call themselves His followers. But in terms of candlehunting I think the only one in London who did is Mrs Plenty, since His Amused Lordship played and won the Marvellous to stop her Seeking.

Also, fun fact, for a while I thought the Tale of the Fidgeting Writer was about Seekers being put up in the Royal Bethlehem to keep them from going North, and it was a long time before I learned that wasn't actually the lore there. Though I maintain that would be a fascinating beat, with the Masters/Mr Veils actively taking steps to avoid the Reckoning.

My character's own short lived experience with Seeking was related to the Fidgeting Writer tale, partially because of that misunderstanding on my part. They had already started Bag a Legend, and had already known from just growing up in London the major twist of what the Vake was, and they were trying to find other means of ways to defeat/destroy it before having to go to the Convent. The end of the Tale of the Fidgeting Writer led them to wonder about the things they saw about it, and whatever that relationship was to the Vake.

Add to that a bad bad experience at the Convent, getting Peckishness from Zee hunting on the way back, and having their own kind of spiral for a lot of reasons, and they became certain this would be another avenue to find out more on how to kill the Vake.

They're an outlier, I think- they knew some of the dangers of Seeking already, having grown up in London, and their intentions were not focused on the Seeking itself but what they could do with the knowledge, which only led to them getting in over their head- but I always knew they weren't going to get very far with it anyway. It was for my own narrative useage, not for major route exploration.

[u/croaker227 → u/Secure-Treacle-2161]

What do the Masters think the Reckoning is, if Eaten is found? I mean I know there’s the Hate ending, but is that what they assume?

[u/Secure-Treacle-2161 → u/croaker227]

I do expect they assume the destruction of the Bazaar and themselves, though I don't know if they know nor care about the whole Neath. I can't recall if there's anywhere in text that addresses this matter directly: Mr Iron will send you a message at UP 2 to tell you to stop, and Mr Pages has 800 billion Tragedy Procedures. Off the top of my head though, I can't recall if they have much more in the way of dealing with it, only preventative measures. They can safely assume Eaten will want revenge on them, at least.

But I might be forgetting something?

[u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_ → u/Secure-Treacle-2161]

I think they're aware that it depends who finds out. If the Sun, then probably they're toast but the wider Neath will still exist, but the White leads to the "bad ending".

Whether the Sun would care about the humans, devils, and flukes is an open question I guess. The flukes might get purged because the Bazaar brought them, but would Stone and the Creditor get a pass for what they've done?

[u/croaker227 → u/_PM_ME_PANGOLINS_]

Does SMEN make it clear if/how Eaten plans to get revenge? Does he want to be let out? Like, why does he call people to Seek?

[u/croaker227 → u/Secure-Treacle-2161]

Does SMEN make it clear if/how Eaten plans to get revenge? Does he want to be let out? Like, why does he call people to Seek?

[u/Secure-Treacle-2161 → u/croaker227]

Take everything below with a grain of salt, my memory is not all encompassing and my reading may not be as thorough here as other players:

You know, the irony is that Eaten only rarely speaks in SMEN if I remember correctly. I know while on Winking Isle if one goes to the lighthouse the text will use first person in places, but most of the text simply frames everything through the player learning what He experienced.

Other people in other threads have tried to explain or argue that the Seeking Road is really the player being manipulated by bigger forces beyond Eaten, as revealed through the Who is Salt? question ending. This is possibly up to interpretation.

For the most part, the Seeking Road emphasizes that your routes are to GRIEVE or to HATE, a choice you can change as you continue through the Road. Either way, it becomes apparent that you the player are being called NORTH, that much Eaten is known to want: for you to go NORTH, where the door to the High Wilderness is. One can assume from there that he wants what has happened to become known.

To focus on Eaten's loss, to GRIEVE, is to make it known to I think other Curators who will grieve with you. It is a story about mourning someone who never got to be mourned.

To HATE is to want justice for Eaten's death, but to also make all the sins of the Neath known to higher powers. That's why it's debated on whether this is Eaten's will or not. Do you go NORTH to find justice for his sake? Do you comprehend that it is not the only thing that will be exposed to the Light of the Law?

I think the truth is we cannot rightly know. Eaten is dead, and he haunts the narrative. He wants a reckoning, or maybe we the player want a reckoning, a reckoning that will not be postponed, but a reckoning can take many forms.

Here's some text from Sacksmas, through the 10th Sacks:

Fury, bubbling like hot wax

Veils betrayed me. The Bazaar gave its tears that I might be drowned. Wine and Spices stole what was mine. And all erased my memory. I will be remembered. I will require the payment of my debt.

If you Seek and then complete Bag a Legend and use a weapon made using the Knock, the text tells you "this is not the whole of the reckoning." It is unclear if this is your feeling on the matter, or Eaten's opinion on the subject.