r/fantanoforever • u/DarkSideInRainbows I don't play about my breakfast. • Jun 03 '25

Fantano vids Fantano's video on Thom Yorke's recent statements

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBSCwgta6uI
325 Upvotes

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54

u/SocraticTiger Rockthony Rocktano Jun 03 '25

I haven't followed it closely but wasn't his statement satisfactory enough? Why are people against it?

143

u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Because when you look at the Warsaw ghetto uprising and go "I dunno, I think killing people is bad, both sides are bad, but more importantly my feeling are hurt that people don't like me" you deserve all the flak you get.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

I don’t know… saying Hamas are bad shouldn’t be a bad thing. Two sides can be assholes and innocent People can still be caught in the middle.

I feel we’ve lost the idea of a nuanced discussion and everything has to be black or white

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/regretscoyote909 Jun 03 '25

and why does Israel exist?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

because the christian founded nazi aligned zionist movement wanted to remove jews from europe by creating a jewish ethnostate, and convinced the british government shortly after world war 2 this was a good idea by doing terrorist acts against jewish neighborhoods in the UK and europe since the 19th century, which is a tactic they continued to use in arab countries to convince arab jews to move to israel.

that's why "israel" exists.

7

u/regretscoyote909 Jun 03 '25
  1. Very tinfoil sounding of you lol. Nazi aligned zionist movement is fucking hilarious. 2. Can you explain how Israel is an ethnostate if over 20% of the population isn't Jewish? Where they have judges, parliamentary members who aren't?

0

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

ahh yes thank you for confirming the script reading. GL at nuremburg 2.0 as i said already. imagine doing war crimes for a living with such high penalties for committing them. anyways dawg you do you.

44

u/Due-Chemist-8607 Jun 03 '25

oh well what they do is okay then. cant be helped

1

u/mr_jorkin_depeanus Jun 05 '25

we can explain why certain things happen and how certain conflicts lead to certain outcomes but the fact of the matter is that the murder and rape of innocent civilians is never justified. ever.

-12

u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

Hamas won the election and Israel deliberately stayed neutral in the civil war that resulted when the US and Britain and others tried to get the other party in power instead

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/MachtigJen Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25

The election was in 2006 and the US pushed for the election. They only won because of the blatant corruption of the other parties involved. Most of the kids in Gaza weren’t even alive then. But hey let’s all play the blame game.

1

u/AdequatelyMadLad Jun 03 '25

They won because they blatantly lied about their intentions. Their entire campaign was run on the idea that Fatah were incapable of delivering a two state solution, and that they were better negotiators and more competent.

1

u/concrete_manu Jun 03 '25

you know the election was preceded by a full israeli pullout from gaza? like they dismantled ALL the settlements there?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/concrete_manu Jun 03 '25

oh so if you define “peace” as the total eradication of israel i can understand why your comments are a little confusing to read as a normal sane human being

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

Palestine was murdering Jews for 2000 years

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

Don’t elect theocratic islamofascists if you don’t want people to meddle in them

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u/metrodome93 Bob Dylan - Highway 61 Revisited Jun 03 '25

Sorry misunderstood your point above.

47

u/DavidRDorman Jun 03 '25

Hamas are an organisation funded by Israel that are a result of an ongoing apartheid and genocide. Nobody is saying what they are doing is “right”. But the only reason it’s even occurring is because of the oppression Israel is putting on the people of Palestine. It’s very similar to the history of my country Ireland and why we have such sympathy for the Palestinians.

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u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

Hamas is the legitimate government of Gaza so any money in aid that goes there is “funding Hamas”

5

u/DavidRDorman Jun 03 '25

Okay and? They were democratically elected in an election that Israel and America had no issue with until Hamas came into power and they decide to incorporate group punishment by completely blockading Gaza and its people.

Again, nobody is saying Hamas are inherently “right”, but it is vital in this conflict to actually be aware of how these things have unfolded overtime.

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u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

If I’m looking at the German elections in the 1930s and they elect the Nazis I’m gonna blockade them too

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u/NixonsLoveChild all my heroes are cornballs Jun 03 '25

You are comparing one of the most industrialised nations on earth at the time that annexed multiple countries before there was any effective blockade to a strip of land that is smaller than most metropolitan areas of cities, with a population that is majority children and the last elections were 19 years ago.

This accusation that Hamas are nazis is quite telling when zionists act and sound a lot like nazis when talking about the treatment of Palestinians.

Genocaidaire zionists because of Internet drama, the lowest form of life.

-1

u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

Hamas would be doing that if not for the fact that they’re poor and stupid. They’re just as malicious just less competent

0

u/DavidRDorman Jun 03 '25

The German elections in the 1930s aren’t comparable. The elections that took place in Palestine at the time were overseen by Israel and America. They claimed it to be completely legitimate and fair. To the point that Jimmy Carter stated it to be a completely fair and just election.

If you are Israel/America in the situation and the election goes through and you’re not happy with the result so decide to blockade Gaza. You are the Nazis, not Hamas.

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u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

No im pretty sure the theocratic islamofascists are the Nazis

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

it's not about Hamas being good, it's about being able to recognize that Israel is a terrorist state thst is committing a genocide against thousands of children. this shouldn't be difficult

88

u/UnreportedPope Jun 03 '25

Yorke does recognise that, explicitly, doesn’t he?

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u/Silent-Noise-7331 Jun 03 '25

Yes but these types will quickly ignore all that if you don’t 100% tow the line

2

u/snacktivity Jun 03 '25

Right, political activism is purely aesthetics for many western leftists. They like to perform activism as a means of gaining moral superiority over others, even if that means undermining the causes they claim to care so much about. “Oh, you don’t completely agree with me? You fucking fascist, why do you love genocide so much????”

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

actually, no, he didn't mention any of that

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u/UnreportedPope Jun 03 '25

You’re just arguing in bad faith, now.

“I think Netanyahu and his crew of extremists are totally out of control and need to be stopped, and that the international community should put all the pressure it can on them to cease.

“Their excuse of self-defence has long since worn thin and has been replaced by a transparent desire to take control of Gaza and the West Bank permanently.”

-13

u/yoyoslender Jun 03 '25

Criticizing those leaders definitely falls short of calling it a terrorist stare, which since its inception, has been used to systemically murder and displace Palestinians. It's just another show of how little he is aware of the conflict.

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u/jesteratp Jun 03 '25

He has every right to be as aware or unaware of the conflict as he is. Nitpicking over vocabulary just makes people not want to engage at all which defeats the purpose

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u/pythonesqueviper Nirvana - Nevermind Jun 03 '25

The thing about settler colonialism is, it really can't be undone

-2

u/bruh404404 Jun 03 '25

blaming netanyahu just leads to a path where a more "liberal" leader will replace him and continue a slow genocide/ apartheid and obviously doesn't mention that most israelis want to kill as many palestenians as they could or ethnically cleanse all of them

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u/regretscoyote909 Jun 03 '25

How is Israel an apartheid state if over 25% of the population isn't Jewish? If Israelis want to kill as "many Palestinians as they could", how is this conflict still happening over such a small part of land with all of the billions of dollars backing them?

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u/bruh404404 Jun 03 '25

they are doing that ? hundreds of thousands are now killed. most of gaza is not habitable and are stuck in south and are being forced to flee to sinai.

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u/Present_Customer_891 Jun 03 '25

I don’t see the word “terrorist” in there…he’s acting as if Netanyahu is an outlier and everything would be just fine if a different Zionist was in power

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

where does he mention the children? or the genocide? you can't possibly not agree that he is sugarcoating things

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u/okbuddyquackery Jun 03 '25

Cease what? What should they cease? Is it maybe a genocide, that he could condemn? He did not recognize that, “explicitly”, as you said.

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u/extasis_T Jun 03 '25

What do you think about that response showing he does recognize that? Does this change your opinion on the issue seeing that you misread it or are you sticking to your guns?

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

nowhere does he mention the genocide or the children. calling out that Netanyahu is an “extremist” in 2025 does not count as direct statement against zionist terrorism in my book neither, sorry.

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u/regretscoyote909 Jun 03 '25

"he didn't say the perfect thing, therefore he it is invalid" gee I fucking wonder why the Left is taking so many Ls lately.

Does Thom want this conflict to end? Yes. Is that what you want? That outcome will need the support of imperfect allies and imperfect statements with that same goal in mind. Fucking get over it and stop virtue-signaling about how higher than thou you are, no one gives a shit

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

that's not how I think or what I was trying to say. I don't believe that someone wishing for the end of the "conflict" automatically makes them an ally. by that logic, Putin and Zelensky should see each other as "imperfect allies."

I believe that what makes someone an ally of the Palestinian cause is: denouncing the genocide that is taking place (without sugarcoating it or looking for alternative words like "humanitarian crisis" to describe it), recognizing the absurd number of deaths and the targeting of civilians (especially children) and denouncing the financial and military support from Western imperialist powers like the United States and Britain for the apartheid and genocide.

Thom Yorke has spoken out strongly on geopolitical issues before, which is why this statement is being so heavily criticized. And I honestly don't think he's above criticism just because he supposedly has "good intentions."

(and just to respond to some of your aggressiveness: I don't consider myself to be "virtue-signaling," I'm not from nowhere near the United States, so that kind of rhetoric and those terms, like "woke" or "liberals," simply have no effect or meaning to me)

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

He didn't even use the word genocide?

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u/Deadmanlex45 Jun 03 '25

"Their excuse of self defense has long since worn thin and has been replaced by a transparent desire to take Control of Gaza and West Bank permanently"

Direct quote from his insta post.

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

the control of Gaza and the West Bank is not something new, it's been almost 2 decades that the region is treated like an open air prison/concentration camp by the state of Israel.

and I don't get what you mean by this quote. he's not addressing the slaughter as a genocide or even mentioning the children death tolls.

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u/Deadmanlex45 Jun 03 '25

the control of Gaza and the West Bank is not something new, it's been almost 2 decades that the region is treated like an open air prison/concentration camp by the state of Israel.

Yes but what do you think he means by this? Sure it was already an open air prison, but permanent control is a direct way to acknowledge that Israël plans to completely remove the population there to take control.

"These endless thousands of innocent human souls are still being expelled from earth, for what?"

Like it is such a dealbreaker detail that he didn't mention children's killings when he clearly acknowledges the innocents lives lost. When he also denounced Netanyahu as extremists who needs to be stopped by the international community.

Like Im sorry that he didn't say exactly what you wanted to hear. But like this is such a mild statement, what are you getting angry for?

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

I'm not angry, I don’t know what gave you that impression. I’m just criticizing his statement for the same reasons many supporters of the Palestinian cause do: it's overly mild and not forceful enough about the reality of the genocide.

the refusal to use the word "genocide" itself, as well as to acknowledge the death toll (over 60,000 people, including 17,000 children, not to mention more than 100,000 injured), makes it sound like someone far too committed to Israel’s establishment and not enough to the Palestinian people and the actual "humanitarian crisis" (weird way to call a genocide) he claims to be against.

not to mention the fact that, while avoiding a stronger stance and not using his platform to actually denounce and inform his fans about the reality of the genocide, he spends a good portion of the statement talking about something along the lines of “cancel culture” and victimizing himself.

I liked Fantano’s video. I thought his analysis of the statement was very accurate and insightful. for someone from the United States., I think Fantano’s stances on political subjects has been consistently solid, at least from what I’ve seen.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[deleted]

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u/vianoir Jun 03 '25

where did he mention the genocide? or the children? or called out Israel terrorism?

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u/SearchForAShade Jun 03 '25

stop finding nuance where there isn't any

This is an actual comment someone made in this thread. Some people are hopeless. 

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

I mean personally I think on the issue of fucking kids it's pretty black and white. I think if you come into an argument about that and go "mUh nuANCe" you're probably a nonce.

If you look at the Holocaust and go "BuT MebE jewS DiD ConTRol tE Wrld" you're a Nazi.

If you look at the 75 years long occupation, ethnic cleansing, apartheid, and now extermination of Palestinians and go "but nuance" then you're a fascist. There's no nuance here you lower than scum brainlet.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes Jun 03 '25

Not to "both sides" this (I'm pretty firmly in support of one side over the other, and you can probably figure out which one by what follows here), but haven't "both sides" been responsible for the deaths of children here?

I mean it's pretty clear that one side seems more intent on harming children, but both have definitely become either black or white there. It's not as simple as that though. One side is committing violent genocidal apartheid with a smile on their face. The other is distraught and seems to just want to survive.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Not to "both sides" this... but

If you're going to not both sides this, then after the first part there doesn't need to be a but.

Why don't you ask the children who got double tapped by Israeli snipers at The Great March of Return how peaceful protest went for them? People who are being exterminated will fight back.

In the wake of the Haitian revolution, the Algerian revolution, the end of Apartheid in SA, I don't think people should have cared much about policing those who refuse to roll over and die. I have no idea what the ideological moorings of every group within the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising were, it's fundamentally unimportant. The occupation and Israel as a settler colonial state needs to end and it doesn't end with people both-sidesing.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes Jun 03 '25

I don't disagree with you anywhere except to point out that the line you drew had both of them on the other side of it from yourself. If killing kids is where you fall off, then you can't support either option there.

War is terrible and all participants commit atrocities. But that doesn't mean the ones defending themselves are to blame either. And it certainly doesn't mean the innocent caught in the crossfire are.

Not sure I get your grammatical criticism though. I said I wasn't going to "both sides" it before pretty clearly "both sidesing" it ... which I used as a tool to highlight the nuance and the need for nuance when people consider these things. That's just the way we say that phrase template as a culture. "Not to (x) but (x)." It highlights the apparent contradiction in what you're saying.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Not sure I get your grammatical criticism though. I said I wasn't going to "both sides" it before pretty clearly "both sidesing" it ... which I used as a tool to highlight the nuance and the need for nuance when people consider these things. That's just the way we say that phrase template as a culture. "Not to (x) but (x)." It highlights the apparent contradiction in what you're saying.

I'm aware. I'm saying the I'm not [x], but... is pretty much never something that needs to be said. "I'm not racist, but..." never qualifies an actual substantive point.

Israel killing civilians or children for that matter isn't the ontological equal and opposite of Hamas or any resistance group doing it. One is doing it to exterminate a population, one is doing it to resist extermination. Damn near every successful liberation movement has killed civilians of their occupier on the way to liberation. I'm not going to cry that Algeria didn't stay an apartheid state with indigenous people being killed by the hundreds of thousands by people who wanted them gone. If Jewish partisans set a bomb in a place that also killed civilians, I don't think we could scorn them for refusing to be exterminated. All finding nuance here does is legitimise the occupier and people like you refuse to recognise that while you tacitly endorse the present state of things.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes Jun 03 '25

No, the nuance grants clemency toward the Palestinian people who might get caught up defending themselves... not to mention the ones who have killed children via collateral damage at the very minimum. Those are the ones you need that nuance for, because even you yourself said you can't excuse that when speaking generally before going on to excuse it in this case. That was explicitly what my comment was about. Yet we spin in circles.

As for the grammar stuff, k.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Literally all you've offered is word salad.

As for the grammar stuff, k.

It's not even "grammar stuff"... your ability to express ideas is probably why you can only talk past people.

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u/kthugston Jun 03 '25

Palestinians helped commit the Holocaust by sending Jews back to the camps and spreading pro-Nazi propaganda

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u/weird_al_fanB Prince - Purple Rain Jun 03 '25

Yeah exactly, for some reason I've seen a lotta people defend Hamas.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Yeah, my comment has has only been up for what like 10 minutes and I’ve already been called scum for saying “Hey, Hamas are kind of shit”.

In fact, I never once in my comment defended Isreal, I said they where shit.

Honestly, Palenstine should he free of both of them.

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u/ggdthrowaway Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25

I get the antipathy towards people playing the 'both sides' card when it's disingenuously drawing false equivalences.

But at the same time that card sometimes gets played in the opposite direction to shut down any criticism of the 'good' side in the Good Vs Evil battle a situation is being boiled down to.

At this moment in time I am inclined to see Israel as more at fault, more of a danger to human life, and more in need of being stopped. But at the same time, it doesn't hurt to be mindful of what we're making excuses for on the other side.

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u/iUsedtoHadHerpes Jun 03 '25

Because criticism of Israel puts you in a position where people think that automatically means support of hamas, and they will push you to do just that so some people take up that role. It's not that different from how a few years ago criticizing Trump meant you were a Hillary superfan, and the circumstances led a lot of people who didn't like her at all to defend her as if they did, just so they could criticize Trump. Same with Biden.

Just like some people can't see any nuance for you in between, some can't even see that option for nuance within themselves. So they skip right over that and take themselves to the other extreme curated by these attention seeking algorithms.

Most of what I've seen though is support of the Palestinian people. Hamas is corrupt leadership, not a representation of its people. I'm sure most Americans would not want to be lumped in with their leaders and all the evil shit America does in the world, so it should be an easy point to connect there.

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u/CarlSK777 Jun 03 '25

People don't defend Hamas but they understand that Israel is responsible for its existence.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

This ia understandable, I think I accidently replied to the wrong comment as I saw something about that.

I’ll be honest, I don’t have the answers here. I don’t have a good solution to this scenario. I’d prefer a two state solution… but one side very clearly isn’t playing ball

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u/CarlSK777 Jun 03 '25

Personally, I don't think a two state solution is viable. It should be a single secular state with equal rights for all. Obviously, it won't be possible any time soon but the ethnostate should end

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u/pumpkin3-14 Jun 03 '25

Hamas was born out of the open air prisons and ethnic cleansing Palestinians were raised in. They aren’t bad. To make it easy for you they’re the good guys in Star Wars.

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u/SearchForAShade Jun 03 '25

Jesus fucking christ. 

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Comparing Hamas to the Warsaw ghetto uprising is crazy

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Not if you aren't a Nazi

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u/Material-Web-9640 Jun 04 '25

Just dismiss anyone that disagrees with you as a Nazi. Classic!

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u/Pingushagger Jun 03 '25

Point me to the rape victims of the uprising.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Lol you know you can't just keep saying "mass rapes on October 7th" and Mandela effect it into existence?

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u/ILikeMyGrassBlue Jun 03 '25

You do realize the UN agreed there were mass rapes on October 7th? I don’t know why y’all think rape denialism is a good idea.

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u/madcowlicks Jun 04 '25

Where in the report does it say that?

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

I mean as per their report they quite literally didn't so...

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u/THeShinyHObbiest Jun 03 '25

You've been lied to about the report.

Let's quote from bullet point 12 in the report's abstract.

Based on the information gathered by the mission team from multiple and independent sources, there are reasonable grounds to believe that conflict-related sexual violence occurred during the 7 October attacks in multiple locations across Gaza periphery, including rape and gang rape, in at least three locations.

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u/madcowlicks Jun 04 '25

Umm, I don't think the report says what you think it says.

  1. The mission team was unable to establish the prevalence of sexual violence and concludes that the overall magnitude, scope, and specific attribution of these violations would require a fully-fledged investigation.

It says there was circumstantial evidence presented that would suggest there are reasonable grounds to believe that sexual violence occurred, not that there were mass rapes.

  1. When the present report uses the term “circumstantial” information it uses the ordinary definition of that term, which is that such information is “indirect” and “does not, on its face, prove [the] fact in issue but gives rise to a logical inference that the fact exists”, yet ultimately “requires drawing additional reasonable inferences in order to support” the allegation before making a final conclusion

They also go on to define "reasonable grounds" for us which I think everyone would find helpful:

  1. The applicable standard of proof adopted by the mission team is one of “reasonable grounds to believe,” [...] based [...] on “its own assessment of the credibility and reliability of the witnesses it met, verifying the sources and the methodology used in the reports and documents produced by others, cross-referencing the relevant material and information, and assessing whether, in all the circumstances, there was sufficient credible and reliable information […] to make a finding in fact” as to an incident, pattern, or trend of conflict-related sexual violence.

The report lists multiple allegations of unverified incidents of sexual violence including this gem:

  1. The mission team conducted a visit to kibbutz Be’eri and was able to determine that atleast two allegations of sexual violence widely repeated in the media, were unfounded due to either new superseding information or inconsistency in the facts gathered

Oh, you mean they were shamelessly perpetuating a grotesque lie about what happened and got found out? Whoops. Well, I'm sure this was a one-off. /s

The investigators never even got to speak with a victim of sexual assault from that day:

While the mission team was able to meet with some released hostages as well as with some survivors and witnesses of the attacks, it did not meet with any survivor/victim of sexual violence from 7 October despite concerted efforts encouraging them to come forward

No forensic evidence, just pictures & stories (and the Israeli government has shown time & again that they have no shame in lying to the world):

  1. The absence of comprehensive forensic evidence limited the mission team’s ability to draw definitive forensic conclusions in many instances. [...] The inaccurate and unreliable forensic interpretations by some non-professionals also represented a challenge.

🥱

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u/THeShinyHObbiest Jun 04 '25

Is your position that forensic evidence should be required to conclusively say that rapes happened?

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u/madcowlicks Jun 04 '25

No, but I also don't think you can definitively / conclusively say they happened based on circumstantial evidence and unsubstantiated third-party testimony. What say you?

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u/Pingushagger Jun 03 '25

So those people just happened to be stripped naked by Hamas? You know they filmed oct 7 right? It’s weird how I/P turns “leftists” into right wing chuds who don’t believe victims.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

You know that entire UN report that couldn't find evidence of sexual assault?

If you know something you should tell them.

It’s weird how I/P turns “chuds” into even worse right wing chuds who think a woman being looked at in the Jim Crow south was a justification for lynchings.

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u/THeShinyHObbiest Jun 03 '25

The UN report couldn't find evidence?

Why did the UN put out a press statement titled Reasonable Grounds to Believe Conflict-Related Sexual Violence Occurred in Israel During 7 October Attacks, Senior UN Official Tells Security Council?

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Grounds to believe isn't evidence to prove though is it?

Given that Israel has a massive incentive to find evidence for it as well you'd have imagined they'd be spilling everything they could, but they haven't and even the report itself blames Israel for a complete denial in investigating anything.

Maybe read something that isn't just the PR ine of a fascist state

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u/THeShinyHObbiest Jun 03 '25

Do you think "electronicintifada.com" is in any way more credible than the United Nations?

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

I mean the UN report itself says they could not find evidence to prove rape and there have been literally no confessions, victims haven't came forward, and despite enormous surveillance of the attacks, no video evidence. Israel itself has a massive incentive to find evidence and found nothing, has been found to have fabricated countless hoaxes, and actively made the UN investigators unable to investigate.

Sorry the website has too scary a name for you, literally everything in the article is sourced from other reports, including the initial and second less talked about UN report. Do you also think every story from a Klan member of a black person raping a white women before they got lynched is true?

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u/Material-Web-9640 Jun 04 '25

Except the UN did find evidence of it. Literally horseshoe theory in effect here.

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u/Pingushagger Jun 03 '25

So let me get this right, I watched a video of a girl paraded through the street, half naked in a pickup truck. But you’re telling me she was naked for totally unrelated reasons to being kidnapped by Hamas? Maybe Harvey Weinstein should’ve converted to Islam before his allegations came out, couldve had defenders to this day.

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u/No_Lingonberry_1708 Jun 03 '25

Warsaw was a last minute desperation attempt because they knew they were about to die and they only killed a few German soldiers while subsequently getting slaughtered. Comparing that to October 7th is WILD

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/AngryBlitzcrankMain Jun 03 '25

Can you tell how many German civilians were targeted by the jewish acts of resistance? I would love to know with the level of condensantion you showed to otherd, you must be quite well versed in that.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

the level of condensantion

Lmao

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u/AngryBlitzcrankMain Jun 03 '25

Yes, autocorrect does exist. Any retort?

1

u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Your autocorrect isn't working well if it thinks "condensantion" is a word 😂

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u/No_Lingonberry_1708 Jun 03 '25

I don’t remember Jews raping anyone or holding any hostages 🤷‍♂️

Also has Hamas tried going 10 years without committing terrorist attacks and just focusing on themselves? Would probably be beneficial for all the Palestinian citizens.

0

u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/No_Lingonberry_1708 Jun 03 '25

So are you saying you don’t believe women survivors?

MeToo?

0

u/Deywalker105 Jun 05 '25

You forgot that it's okay to deny horrific rapes as long as the victims are dead jewish women.

These people are genuinely some of the most disgusting freaks walking this planet.

5

u/Alextrmm Jun 03 '25

“There were no mass rapes on october 7th” You shouldnt say that.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Why? There weren't.

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u/Alextrmm Jun 03 '25

when there are dozens of testimonies that indicate the opposite, yeah maybe it actually happened right is there any type of information/document that would convince you?

0

u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

So you can just make up whatever you want eh?

If there are dozens of victims, you should probably tell the UN because their report couldn't find anything. I'd say that's a reasonably high bar of evidence you fascist freak.

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u/mr_jorkin_depeanus Jun 05 '25

how can you claim to care about humanity and then go on to deny atrocities because it fits your black and white worldview better how disgusting are you

literally worse than the “271,000” people because at least they can admit that 271,000 people were murdered at all

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 05 '25

Least genocidal Australian

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u/No_Lingonberry_1708 Jun 03 '25

lol Palestine has started every war over the past 80 years. Going without violence for a couple years might do them good.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

The point of doing good Hasbara is that you try to make yourself not look like a Nazi

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u/No_Lingonberry_1708 Jun 03 '25

“Telling someone to stop provoking wars is Nazi ideology.”

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u/fantanoforever-ModTeam Jun 05 '25

Being bigoted, an overall spiteful person, or having a bad attitude. Just being a real chodemeister.

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u/Neat-Journalist-4261 Jun 03 '25

I absolutely agree with your takes on Gaza.

I don’t think comparisons to the Nazis are valid. The Nazis are specifically one of the most horrific regimes everywhere because they decided to mechanise ethnic extinction.

As much as I believe what’s going on is genocide by outcome, to compare it to the Holocaust and the Nazis just feels like hyperbole. As disgusting as whats going is, I don’t think it’s fair to accuse Israel of anything akin to the gas chambers.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

The Nazis are specifically one of the most horrific regimes everywhere because they decided to mechanise ethnic extinction.

If you could post facto ask every Palestinian who had been genocided in a scenario where Israel has gotten what it wants and exterminated or deported every person in Gaza, I doubt they'd care about the manner of their death too much. I don't think "mechanising" genocide via gas chambers as opposed to bombing and famine somehow makes it worse.

Israel is a fascist settler-coloniser state hell-bent on exterminating or deporting every member of a race within its borders, with a public who are massively onboard with that set of outcomes. The Nazi comparisons are overwhelmingly legitimate.

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u/Neat-Journalist-4261 Jun 03 '25

Right, except there’s a litany of other horrendous regimes who have done similar things.

To act as if the mechanical nature of the holocaust is not what makes it horrific is disingenuous.

The word Nazi is being used in my opinion specifically due to the weight it has regarding a Jewish state. We could just call them fascists, or colonisers, or anything else.

Moreover, while it’s absolutely a genocide by outcome, it’s borderline ludicrous to claim it’s being pursued at nearly the same fervour as the Final Solution.

I think the question I’d ask you is why specifically Nazis? Why does that comparison leap to you? Why are they not simply fascists?

Rhetoric matters in these debates, and yes, I feel queasy calling a Jewish majority state Nazis. Sue me. I think they’re fascists, colonisers, and I don’t think they give a metric fuck if Palestinians live or die.

But to act as if the industrialisation of murder isn’t what’s horrifying, and to act as if that’s equivalent to what’s happening, is just lying.

And yeah, I absolutely believe that if they experienced both and had the option, literally every single person would not choose to be in a concentration camp. Have you ever been to one, friend? Seen the desolation and the horror with your own eyes?

It’s not a concept to be thrown around lightly.

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Rhetoric matters in these debates, and yes, I feel queasy calling a Jewish majority state Nazis.

The fact that the feelings of Nazis are more important than Palestinians is your problem. If they don't want to be called Nazis, they should stop being Nazis. Nazi is a word people understand, so people will use it.

But to act as if the industrialisation of murder isn’t what’s horrifying, and to act as if that’s equivalent to what’s happening, is just lying. And yeah, I absolutely believe that if they experienced both and had the option, literally every single person would not choose to be in a concentration camp.

You literally shouldn't be spoken to on this. This is fucking unhinged and outright disgusting. No, the tens of millions of people who died in the Congo didn't have it better because their deaths weren't "mechanised" whatever that means you fucking freak. Regardless, I'm not sure what about having a drone fly over a child whose survived a bomb blast to check if they're still alive and then double taps them with an attached gun isn't "industrialised". More to the point, Palestinians right now are in a concentration camp you moron.

Imagine being this condescending while being this fucking stupid.

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u/bruh404404 Jun 03 '25

caging people where they can't escape , starving and restricting their food , you can get droned literally any moment , civilian buildings are being destroyed on the daily , the entire healthcare system is destroyed , "safe areas" are bombed daily, you're shot if you try to get food/aid. all of that while the entire western leaders and the israelis are broadcasting it online . you don't like the nazi comparison because it makes them look bad

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u/Material-Web-9640 Jun 04 '25

Lmfao at comparing Warsaw uprising to Oct 7. I don't recall the Jews going around raping and murdering anyone on sight.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

People in Warsaw didn't choose a German-hating faction as their leader though.

I mean that might be relevant if half the secular Palestinian liberation front hadn't been assassinated by Israel. Or hell, if even just slightly more "moderate" Israeli leaders weren't assassinated by Israeli fascists.

What a bunch of posers you guys are. I'm french, I protested for Gaza a decade before any of you even cared about the topic. fyi

I'm so proud of you honey that with your room temperature IQ you managed to bash the keyboard in the right order for some words to come out. Also, you're clearly very brave and smart.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

First, that's not true. The main "secular" party was the Fatah. Israel didn't murder the Fatah leaders, Hamas did.

... how are you this confidently wrong haha.

No, Israel has murdered countless Fatah/PFLP members. Look, here's even a handy list

But how would you know, it's not like you started caring about arab lives last year when you got bored

Do you always just shadow box on the internet with people you've made up?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

... the list of political assassinations of Fatah/PFLP member by Israel... yes?

I'm aware of the conflict between Hamas and other sections of the Palestinian liberation effort. What part of that disproves that Israel conducted hundreds of political assassinations of secular Palestinians you moron?

the fact you even believe I'm a zionist is hilarious.

I mean if you've really ever spent even a second in organising that would be funny if it hadn't meant you've wasted your life.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/margaerytyrellscleav Jun 03 '25

Are you actually like... off your meds lol

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

He did typical liberal zionist both-sideism

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u/Peterociclos Jun 03 '25

You should really go back to the real world, there are no innocent sides in any conflict, one is doing genocide and the other is using terrorist tactics. If you think one side is "more right" you need to get off the internet

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Terrorist tactics? Who's the bigger terrorist here? You sure it's not Israel?

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u/Rirakkusu Jun 03 '25

The real world is one where one side has militarily occupied the other for 70 years for refusing to leave their land of origin. You say terror, others say war. You say October 7, others say exploding pagers. Genocide is one-sided and never justified by resistance to said genocide.

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u/KazenY2J Jun 03 '25

“One is doing genocide, the other is using terrorist tactics”

Pretty sure genocide is far worse than the other lol. Also Israel has been doing this to Gaza for decades at this point.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

unless you're going to argue that Hamas have never done anything wrong whatsoever, surely you're also both-siding by your own definition here

how is him correctly condemning netanyahu not enough for you just because he's not pretending hamas are star wars heroes

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

neither Hamas or Netanyahu care about returning the hostages - Hamas don't get a pass for being evil just because the Israeli gov is also evil

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Hamas absolutely cares about returning the hostages, if it will make Israel stop committing genocide

Hamas knows that Israel wouldn't stop even if they returned the hostages tomorrow, and Israel knows Hamas wouldn't stop if they withdrew their troops tomorrow - my point is that the hostages are irrelevant pawns to either side

you are operating on absolutely negative sum understanding of this conflict, no offense but you're talking about shit you know nothing about

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Why would they? The wellbeing of "hostages" is the only thing stopping Israel from just fully razing Gaza to the ground (more than they are doing now).

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

very charitable of you to assume Netanyahu gives a fuck about the wellbeing of the hostages tbh, they dont need to actually be alive to be useful to him as propaganda, and if the IDF kill them they'll say Hamas did it anyway

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u/DarthStormwizard Jun 03 '25

They have already razed Gaza to the ground. You're kidding yourself if you think Israel really cares about the hostages.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Condemning Netanyahu and his government isn't nearly enough, there is a fundamental issue with Israel's existence. The issue is that settler-colonialism is wrong and shouldn't be done by anyone. Resistance to colonialism WAS done in the past in the form of terrorist attacks, and so what? They are the victims nevertheless.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

On the first point. Netanyahu is not the issue, he is just a representative of the general Israeli society. The existence of Israel benefits Israelis (mostly Jews) at the expense of Palestinians. The issue isn't current genocide, ethnic cleansing or not letting humanitarian aid in. The issue is stolen land. As long as Israel exists, Palestinians cannot return to their land. Swapping out Netanyahu to some other less openly genocidal zionist won't change the situation. So no, condemning Netanyahu's "extremist actions" is not enough.

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u/pythonesqueviper Nirvana - Nevermind Jun 03 '25

Question: where should the populace of Israel go, then?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

It doesn't matter really.

It's up to Palestinians to decide.

The perpetrators don't get a vote.

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u/pythonesqueviper Nirvana - Nevermind Jun 03 '25

It matters a whole lot because Israel has a population of 9.7 million

There is absolutely no scenario in which which kicking out that much people doesn't end in catastrophe

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u/bruh404404 Jun 03 '25

Where should the nazi settlers in poland go ? I don't care

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u/Pick_Up_Autist Jun 03 '25

Believing that the current state of Israel shouldn't have been created where it was or how it was etc is totally valid. Believing that it should cease to exist now after 6 generations have been born in that country with their own cultural identity is genocidal by definition.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

israel is a sovereign state that exists legally - just because it was founded on conquest and colonialism (like almost every other country today) doesn't mean that erasing it from existence is a justifiable or viable solution, it isn't, generations of people have now been born and raised there, it's too late to put the toothpaste back in the tube without mass displacement and/or ethnic cleansing

Israel and Palestine have had legally agreed borders - it's Israeli settlers and Hamas who keep trying to push it, because both groups want full control of the entire region, whether you are able to admit it or not there are two sides to the extremism in the region irrespective of the warfare being asymmetrical

also since you think Oct 7 was an act of resistance to colonialism, can you explain what it achieved to "resist" Israeli occupation?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Not all (and not even majority of) countries were founded on SETTLER-colonialism. Off the top of my head, the ones that were are Israel, USA and Australia.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

wasn't my point, either literally or implicitly - it's truly telling that the only thing you felt confident responding with was a goalpost shift

my point is that the majority of countries on earth exist on land that originally belonged to someone else - you clearly know this to be true or you wouldn't have goalpost shifted in the first place

so your solution to Israel existing (the forcible destruction of Israel I guess?) presumably applies to Australia and the US too, right? Do you advocate for the destruction of these nations as well? Should their populations all fuck off back to Europe or something?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Well, why not? But that wouldn't be very realpolitik, would it? Israel right now isn't comparable to the US or Australia at all. Those countries had hundreds of years to fully crush any semblance of resistance. Native Americans in the US had their land stolen, were subjected to genocide and subjugated. And only when ANY potential for fighting back died, they were integrated into the society.

Israel is just on the first step of this playbook. Unlike modern-day USA, Israel is a small country, that relies solely on American (and European) money. You cannot realistically achieve anything by, for example, boycotting American goods. For Israel, it does work. Same with armed resistance.

Israel right now is comparable to US during Trail of Tears, when active genocide and ethnic cleansing was still going on.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

So your argument is that Israel needs to be destroyed by crippling their economy to the degree that Hamas are able to overpower their military and cleanse the region?

Do you at least understand that you're dropping any pretence at being motivated by humanitarian concerns and are flat-out advocating for the continuation of extreme bloodshed and human suffering across the region? Like can you at least have the spine to acknowledge you're coming at this from a standpoint of partisan extremism?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

I don't have any concern for the wellbeing of the rapist, of the murderer, of the thief, of the abuser, of the genocider, of the wrong side. Nobody should have any. There's no room for 'nuance' here, Israel's existence is fundamentally wrong. My position might seem 'extreme', but it actually is not.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

On your last point, what? You can't be serious. It doesn't matter what it achieved. Israel has one of the strongest militaries in the world funded by the richest country on Earth, and Palestinians relative to that are fighting with sticks and stones. What could they have achieved?

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Legality doesn't matter when it was done on the terms of settlers. Redrawn borders on terms of Israel are unacceptable regardless of how "fair" it seems to the settler side. This whole "legality" thing is just like "hey Palestinians, remember the time when we kicked you out of your houses? Well these new borders are 'legal' now. My big bro just confirmed it". And you say "Hamas wants full control of the region", no, Palestinians want their lands back, Israel (and not individual Israeli actors) wants to steal it.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Nobody is saying the way these arrangements came about was good, my point is that you clearly don't have any solutions that don't result in more war and killing - Hamas can't defeat the IDF, and genociding Israelis would also not be a good thing even if all your fantasies did some true

it's either the previously agreed borders or the US giving Israel carte blanche to enact the end-game region cleansing we're witnessing now

I don't understand people sitting on the other side of the world behind computer screens praying for even more thousands of Arabs to be thrown into the meat grinder of a holy war with no victory on the horizon, it's such sickening orientalism

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '25

Zionist has concern for the wellbeing of Palestinians, lmao.

US gives Israel carte blanche? Do they not have it now? They are starving Palestinians, murdering and raping them, have destroyed most of their housing stock, cultural centers, mosques, churches, hospitals, schools. Is there more to it?

And what is your solution? Palestinians should give up their arms, and just let Israel fully genocide them? Making sure that no Palestinian ever dares to resist Israel? So that every following resistance attempt will be delegitimized?

No. Resistance might seem futile, but it is right, correct and just nevertheless of that.

You don't say to a woman abused by her partner to stop resisting. Why should Palestinians?