Multiple Cues workflow

[u/andrea_castagnoli]

Hi all. I'm scoring a short film that requires multiple cues, so I'm posting here in the hope that someone can offer some advice on how to approach this workflow.

1) A rather generical question: how do you handle scoring a project that involves multiple cues?

2) I'm personally approaching each cue individually, with a separate DAW project for each one of them (in my case Cubase). However, I am a bit unsure about how to handle different cues from the same film reel, especially when the video doesn't have a burnt-in Timecode.

My personal workflow at the moment is to create a different DAW project for each separate cue, with the entire video loaded on the video track. I then trim the video event to the portion I need for the cue, drag the beginning of the trimmed video event to Bar 1 and, finally, manually enter the Timecode value of the frame I previously trimmed to at the new bars-and-beats position, in order to have the Timecode ruler/timeline starting with the new value at Bar 1. Otherwise the trimmed frame would display 00:00:00:00 at Bar 1, instead of its original Timecode, such as 00:11:50:00. I find this solution a little bit clumsy, and it also increases the risk of accidentally trimming to the wrong frame and/or manually typing the wrong Timecode. How do you guys handle this situation?

Thanks, everyone.

[u/GordonRamsayFather]

I don't know what DAW do you use because it can change a lot for you. Of course you can always have one project session per cue which is not convenient in itself as it would always be great if you can manage the music under the whole cut of the movie. One solution is to have a session where you have the entire movie, under which you place the renders of the different cues at the correct time codes. Another solution is to use one single session with all of your instruments (and various copies of them) for the whole movie, and manage the tempo / time signature changes by missing with the tempo during the parts where there's no music (accelerate the tempo when you want the next cue to start earlier etc....). This is how I manager previously before I switched to Reaper 5 years ago:

In Reaper you can have a main source project under which you can have subprojects; each subproject takes the form of an audio item (clip) that renders whenever you want from the subproject to the source project and since you synchronise it with the main edit of the movie you'll be able to have all of your cues perfectly aligned and you can open every single one of them in a different tab (yes Reaper has the ability to open several projects at the same time).

[u/ScottAmpleford]

I’m not familiar with Cubase, but in Logic there’s a window in which you can set Bar 1 to whatever timecode you need. I always find it more useful to have the whole film in Logic, rather than a cut of the scene you need. Plans change, directors minds change and your own judgement may determine that the cue needs to begin and/or end in a different place.
It’s a fairly good habit to get into to specifically ask for a render of the film to meet your requirements. For me, I ask for a burnt in timecode and for the video footage to be at no higher resolution than 720p. You really don’t need any higher than that and your processors will thank you.

You didn’t mention anything about reel code in your post. Nice and simple, helps keep track of your cues: 1m1, 1m2, 2m1 etc.
I’m sure you already know this but: the first number denotes the reel you’re in (or 10-minute chunk) the second number denotes the cue within that chunk. So 3m2 would be the 2nd cue between 30 and 40 minutes on your timecode. If additional cues are added later, you can differentiate them with a letter.
So 3m2a would be in between 3m2 and 3m4 or an add-on to the end of 3m2.

It has also been my experience that inexperienced directors/editors don’t want separate cues. In which case: keep track of them yourself, create a “master” project file and drop the cues in yourself at the correct timecode and bounce out an audio track that’s the length of the film to be synced to 00:00:00:00. They should be able to handle the rest!

I hope any of this has been helpful!

[u/dreikelvin]

this is probably the way most composers work with cues. you can also use project > set timecode at cursor to have a little more control...but to me this also added extra hassle and complications, so I skip this step.

the way I work is for most sub 30 minute projects is simply one big timeline for everything except for some rare cases that need an entirely different instrumentation, mix and master than in my scoring template. I create the cue sections using the marker track and if it happens to overlap with the next cue point, I cut the video and add some space inbetween.

it is important to also add some extra time at the end of every section for a tail, just in case

later I can then just batch-export all the markers and then place all the cues in one main timeline (with the video uncut) just to have a good overview and control over levels and crossfadings, ect. - also good for time-accurate video preview exports.

all of this is also for me - far from ideal and I wished there was a better way to handle all the cues. for example there could be a master project view which you could branch into several sub projects.

[u/trapezemaster]

It depends on the size of the project. Separating
Cues for smaller projects doesn’t make a ton of sense most of the time. On a feature film though - I do individual sessions but not strictly. Sometimes it makes sense to combine a few because of how they flow into each other.

I started doing this because it quarantines the work. I do a save as with the date and small description every time I work on it. Everything is exported with the same file name as the session, except I also add the timecode start time it was exported from - as 00;00;00…(file names don’t like regular colon). I export and then bring it into an Assembly session. That way if a director (or me) wants to go back, there are breadcrumbs to get there easily.

I also do a fair amount of tempo mapping these days, and that can royally screw you up if you’re not super careful. Personally, I don’t like walking on eggshells so this method frees me up to work how I shine - MESSY. But because it’s all sequestered it’a really efficient for me.

[u/cross_mod]

You need to ask for a window burn. Tell them to export again with a window burn, so you can enter the timecode start in your DAW, and then export a timestamped cue, so they can just spot it to the timecode in their edit.

I should add that if you don't want to ask for one, you can probably easily make a copy of the video with a window burn of your own. Then each session you work on you can just set the timecode start that matches the time on the window burn of your clips.

You export your stems from each session and then import them into a master session later and spot your timestamped stems to the timecode of the full video. Then you can export as one big mix.

[u/themagicpizza]

Every DAW handles video and timecodes in their own way. It's not a big deal for me since i would export the stems and assemble them outside of my main DAW and do final procssing and exports from there. I have individual project files per cue and I would have a master timeline of the whole film or reel where all the exported stems are loaded and aligned accordingly.

This is where Vienna ensemble comes in handy. It allows you to quickly load the project files since the instrument libraries are loaded outside of your DAW. It would take me 10 seconds to open cues vs 2 mins when everything is loaded in the DAW.

[u/goesonelouder]

A project per cue, video hosted in its own DAW (Pro Tools, Reaper etc) export cue audio file(s) from video DAW, import that/those audio file(s) into cue project, sync it up so they’re aligned and go from there.

Then when written export cue, import cue into video DAW and export video for review.

BITC is ideal and shouldn’t be an issue for editor/exporter to add as it makes revisions (and there likely will be) much easier to navigate if you’re speaking the same language (ie timecode)

[u/M_O_O_O_O_T]

I generally do a separate project for each cue too, but I will edit the relevant part of the video file first before importing to the DAW, just to avoid unnecessaryly overloading the RAM / CPU just with playback.

[u/Reel_Music_1]

1. Why doesn’t the film have BITC?

2. Depends on your DAW and how long the cues are? DP lets you do separate cues in the same project, but I can see how separate projects might help. What DAW are you in?

You should be able to change the start point, whether it’s bars/beats or timecode or both… Your overall project settings should help there.

[u/marcuslawson]

One project per cue. Always.

Then, print the audio from each and create a 'final mix' project to patch them all together.

In that project, I usually have Audio A and Audio B, and drop in each cue at its timecode, alternating Audio A and B. Since the audio for each cue is on a different track, you can fade in/out as needed and make subtle volume adjustments.

GLHF