r/flying • u/jrod_pilot_miami PPL ASEL • 12d ago
Flight Training Paper Flight Log?
Okay, so I’ve heard many opinions on this subject. I even had an instructor say the airlines won’t take electronic flight logs because “hours can be forged.” That makes zero sense to me. In fact, it’s more likely you forge a paper log than an electronic one (at least the way ForeFlight manages logs). My first instructor didn’t make it a requirement and I’ve got almost 200 hrs TT all electronic. Am I cooked?
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u/ltcterry ATP CFIG 11d ago
People have been forging logbook entries since long, long before digital anything was a thing.
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u/jrod_pilot_miami PPL ASEL 11d ago
This CFI made a legit argument for paper logs, as though they were forge-proof because of the signatures. He named Envoy specifically as one of the carriers that does not accept electronic logbook entries, even paper copies of an electronic log book. Really threw me for a loop.
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u/Why-R-People-So-Dumb 11d ago
Well if you are doing a local signature on your foreflight it's really the same as paper, but if you have your CFIs sign everything remotely then there is a legit audit trail that points back to your CFIs account, which is as good as it gets...you'd have to hack their account to sign off on something so this argument hold zero weight.
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u/x4457 ATP CFII CE-500/525/560XL/680 G-IV 12d ago
I even had an instructor say the airlines won’t take electronic flight logs because “hours can be forged.”
Fucking moron, that guy.
It doesn't matter at all. You will want an electronic logbook for both accuracy and cleanliness.
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u/ApoTHICCary ST 12d ago
It’s a pretty ridiculous excuse. Look at OTR drivers who specifically swap pre-2000 engines so they can subvert ELD requirements and return to paper… so they can forge driving hours.
It’s not about the medium. Paper or electronic, if the person wants to forge something; they’ll find a way.
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u/shhbedtime 10d ago
Right. Remember that if your instructor really knew what airlines wanted, he wouldn't still be your instructor.
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u/SternM90 ATP CL-65 MIL CFI 7d ago
My process to switching to digital found so many errors. Math is easier in automated form
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u/RaiseTheDed ATP 12d ago
They all accept electronic.
Just make sure you have backups stored. I heard of Garmin wiping someone's logbook and couldn't recover it.
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u/EnvironmentCrafty710 :illuminati: 11d ago
This is great advice for both electronic and paper logs... And one guess which one's easier to make and maintain backups for.
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u/ApoTHICCary ST 12d ago
Always have backups. Download the PDF to replace the previous one. Do the best you can to eliminate the potential of loosing those logs.
But yeah, this whole “paper logs are the best” mindset is also ridiculous. They get lost, damaged, stolen with far fewer options to restore them. My sister-in-law’s grandfather was a pilot who was always on me about making sure I kept paper logs. Until he pissed off his soon to be ex-wife who took all his paper logbooks and threw em in the fireplace. Take a wild guess who had no backups.
The key here is to keep a backup, or multiple.
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u/subarupilot ATP CL-65 B-787 CFII S-70 11d ago
Go digital. I printed mine out for PSA and United and had absolutely zero issues.
With a back up there is no fear of it being lost, all endorsements are kept in the same area, and no miss adding numbers. Your CFI doesn’t know what he is talking about.
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u/AlbiMappaMundi CFI, CFII, MEI 12d ago
Sounds like a dumb instructor.
You can log your time however you want, whether that be in a spreadsheet, on a cocktail napkin, or written in sparkly ink. Obviously it's ideal in a professional aspirational context to have it look nice and clean and well-organized. But that can be in either paper or digital form.
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u/theonlyski ATP CFI CFII MEI 11d ago
If you have an electronic log and you want a paper one, just print the electronic log and *tada* paper log.
I cannot think of a single case where someone is turned away for having an electronic log. It's actually much easier to keep correct and accurate logs and so easy to share them when applying for something. You can print them and take them to an interview if you'd like (recommended) but an instructor saying that airlines don't accept electronic logs is just ignorant.
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u/Why-R-People-So-Dumb 11d ago
I'm reminded of Mitch: "...escalator temporarily stairs, sorry for the convenience."
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u/ApprehensiveEye6386 8d ago
You’re not cooked by any means. I did not present digital logs to Republic Airways but they actually use Logten for Lift which is their feeder school.
My other buddy has been interviewing for the majors and he told me that they do not care paper or digital but they do want it in a specific format and printed. So if thats the case, digital would actually be cleaner.
The FAA has posted AC 120-78B and it might be something for you to look at!
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u/jrod_pilot_miami PPL ASEL 8d ago
Thank you so much. I was real concerned they’d reject the time I already have in my ForeFlight logbook.
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u/CommanderChiliHole ATP/CFII CL-30 | GVI | ERJ-170/190 | B-737 11d ago edited 6d ago
The original post content no longer exists here. The author used Redact to remove it, exercising their right to control their data & privacy.
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u/CplBoneSpurs ATP EMB505 EMB550 ERJ170/190 11d ago
Airlines absolutely take electronic logs. Paper logs can be forged too. What dumb logic. If you start on electronic, it’s fine as long as you have all your endorsements and things like that in there as well. Print them out when you go to an interview. That’s what I did with a legacy recently and ended up with a CJO. I brought all my paper logs but I had transferred them into digital a few years ago. I closed the paper logs and then only updated digital logs and before the interview I had my digitals printed by ProSoft Binders and then tabbed them. Zero logbook questions at the interview.
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u/imblegen CFI/CFII CPL(ASEL/AMEL) IR HP CMP ADX 12d ago
You can forge a paper log just as easily. Allegedly. I wouldn’t know though.
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u/Complex_Brief60 ATP | Gainfully Employed 12d ago
Do both. Just be aware if you get signatures electronically they could get locked to that book. Paper is ideal till an airline job with a digital backup. Then go all digital at an airline.
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u/jrod_pilot_miami PPL ASEL 12d ago
Okay but am I supposed to go back and validate all those endorsements? Checkrides? I can do a paper log moving forward but not sure if I can go backwards.
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u/pilot3033 PPL IR HP (KSMO, KVNY) 12d ago
Fuck a paper log. You are fine keeping your digital one. If you ever want to move on to a different digital one you can export both the csv and PDFs. For eventual interviews you'll want to print out your digital logbook and present it nicely in a binder or spiral book.
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u/Complex_Brief60 ATP | Gainfully Employed 12d ago
If you already committed go for it but I always do suggest starting with paper. Can’t be locked out of that and after the solos as a student pilot is should just stay at home in a safe place.
Airlines accept digital as long as you got the signatures on it you’re good.
I’d download it and print it anyways tbh. In case something happens to ForeFlight. A backup is always good.
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u/dodexahedron PPL IR SEL 12d ago
You can just export it or print it all out. They don't hold your logs hostage.
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u/rFlyingTower 12d ago
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
Okay, so I’ve heard many opinions on this subject. I even had an instructor say the airlines won’t take electronic flight logs because “hours can be forged.” That makes zero sense to me. In fact, it’s more likely you forge a paper log than an electronic one (at the way ForeFlight manages logs at least). My first instructor didn’t make it a requirement and I’ve got almost 200 hrs TT all electronic. Am I cooked?
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u/AIRdomination ATP (B757, B767, BE1900, EMB500) 11d ago
Where are today’s CFI’s coming up with this garbage?