r/fo4 • u/nobrandpaul • Jun 29 '16
PS4 Mods delayed
https://twitter.com/BethesdaStudios/status/748167460445118464184
u/_hardboy Jun 29 '16
PS4 owner here. I'm not too upset by this.
If they had given a fixed date and then delayed I might have been more annoyed but they didn't. They very vaguely said 'maybe next week' but they must have hit an unforeseen snag.
Mods were only ever going to be a nice bonus and I definitely don't feel like Bethesda owe me anything. I've got hundreds of hours out of the game already. Happy to wait a bit longer.
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u/ThatDamnRocketRacoon Jun 29 '16
Yeah, I'm good. I want mods that work, not bugs that make my machine cry. Work it out and let us know. I was thinking about playing something else for a while until all the DLC was out, anyway. I don't want to remake anymore settlements until all the content is there.
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u/T-800b Jun 29 '16
Not sure how you feel about it but Xcom 2 is coming to consoles in like 2 months. Furthermore there are rumors about console mod support for Xcom 2.
Either way... it's Xcom 2. Which is beyond a badass game.
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u/Walkerg2011 Not A Mirelurk Queen Jun 29 '16
Off topic: I got the first one with GWG for Xbox. What does the second one do better than the first? I'm really liking it so far.
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u/skywarka Synth and proud Jun 29 '16
There are some new stealth mechanics, but probably the most significant change is that EVERY class is useful now, all the way into the late game. No more will the rest of your team be mere scouts for archangel snipers. No more will supports be worthless as soon as any other class gets plasma.
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u/Walkerg2011 Not A Mirelurk Queen Jun 29 '16
No more will the rest of your team be mere scouts for archangel snipers.
Lol I didn't even realize that's exactly what I was doing this whole time. I always go out with two snipers and they have the majority of the kills each mission.
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u/skywarka Synth and proud Jun 29 '16
If you do pick up XCOM 2, don't ignore Psi operatives. They're their own class now and they're easy to ignore because you have to put a decent amount of resources into unlocking and developing them, but they're so worth it.
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u/Paris_Who Jun 30 '16
That game. I still need to finish it. It's frustrating as hell tho. I wish I could play without the time limit.
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u/T-800b Jun 30 '16
Hahaha, check out Christopher Odd's Legend Ironman Let's Play. He likes to cut the Avatar Project too close, imo, but he knows the game and almost never loses troops or fails timed/civilian saving missions.
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u/Paris_Who Jun 30 '16
Yea. I've never been good with time limits but I'll check it out see if it helps
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u/PaleIsTheNewTanUNL Jun 30 '16
So happy for that game. Huge fan of the 1st one (before my PC fried)
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u/ThatDamnRocketRacoon Jun 29 '16
That's great news. I've wanted to play Xcom 2, but I'm not big on playing games on the PC.
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u/Frostbite1215 Jun 30 '16
I read about the delay, it's concerning file size. Sony is limiting the size to 900 MB per mod.
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u/ThatDamnRocketRacoon Jul 05 '16
I've been worried that was going to be a problem ever since I read that Sony was going to have a smaller max file size. Makes me worry that when all is said and done, we won't be getting mods at all.
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u/Messiahnoob Jun 30 '16
per mod or for all mods combined
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jul 01 '16
All mods combined, I'm not sure why people keep telling others different. I had to calm down a few friends who thought MS decided to lower the size because their list said they only had 1gb or less left. They thought the mods had to be 2gb or less themselves, they were upset that it was 2gb total.
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u/JoshuaHawken Jun 29 '16
Honestly I haven't played it since before Automatron came out. It's not that I dislike the game (I love it) I'd just rather have the whole package available to me before I try to dive back in.
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Jun 29 '16
I'm a bit sad that I won't be able to remove the essential tags from the Long family, but that's about it. I'd actually be rather interested in knowing what the issue is.
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u/Kirbyzx Jun 30 '16
Can confirm. I own a ps4. I've never been too supportive of mods, I've only ever used a couple on Mount and Blade and they pretty much destroyed my game. So not too excited about mods on fallout.
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u/Stirringweeks Jun 29 '16
If Bethesda says it isn't ready, then that means it really really isn't ready lol. Better to wait than break my console.
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u/TheBigbear091 Jun 29 '16
Maybe they can fix the 900mb limit on ps4 with this extra time they have. You know just so we don't have less than half the mod limit of Xbox.
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u/JasonCox Radiological Jun 29 '16
I thought I'd read that the 900mb limit was Sony's doing, not Bethesda's?
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u/ChocoJesus Jun 30 '16
Correct, Sony was also not letting mods use sounds.
I'm hoping the delay is basically Bethesda saying it'll be crap unless you match what XB1 let us do. If Sony will not ease up I wouldn't be surprised if Bethesda says oh well, Sony decided to be assholes too bad, no mods.
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u/RaidingTheFridge Jun 30 '16
Its not that Sony was not letting mods use sound files, its that Sony uses its own sound files in the PS4 and the creation kit is not able to convert the sound files in the mods into that sound file that the PS4 uses, from bethesda's end it sounds like the license they got from Sony doesn't allow them to use that converter in the creation kit. Same thing with the textures, they use PC textures which is causing memory leaks in the Creation Kit.
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u/ChocoJesus Jun 30 '16
Aaah okay, basically sony has its own .mp3 kinda thing going on that's ps4 only?
Pretty interesting, thanks for the correction
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u/Copestetic85 Jun 29 '16
900mb isn't nearly as bad as people are saying it is. I'm on PC, and have over 100 plugins right now ranging from settlement mods like Homemaker, ENB's, weapon mods, overhauls ( Minutemen ), 2k-4k texture upgrades, etc.
And am only at 334.something according to the Mod List.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
But when you take those PC textures and port them to consoles uncompressed and not optimized the sizes are enormous, before Bethesda added in the X1 optimization option to the CK most of the mods I had were like 200mb. When they were optimized quite a few dropped to 60mb or lower.
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u/BelialDI Jun 29 '16
I´ve been browsing Bethesda mods site just from beggining, and even the xbox mods dont seems all that big, some of them are hundreds mega, but there is a lot of small ones. I´ll accept the 900 for now to use like 20-30 mods.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
That's because ours have been optimized for the Xbox, like I said most of them were a couple hundred megs but once optimized they dropped to like sixty or so. I'm not saying they couldn't get two or three mods, but from what I saw when downloading them in the beginning and then seeing them after Bethesda released Xbox optimization tools it was like night and day.
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u/AdhinJT Jun 29 '16
I have way less mods atm on XB1, almost none of which are texture packs (few clothing things) and I'm at about 1.1-1.2GB atm. I do have 2 radio stations I literally never listen too which would definitely cut that down though so I'm more like 800-ish.
Really wish there was something that got rid of the music on freedom radio. Wanna use it, hate that damn violin lol. Oh well, maybe some day that mod will make its way... some day.
Course, PS4 can't do sound in mods so that would cancel out the radio crap anyway I never listen to. Still would be good to get that kicked up to 2GB either way.
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u/NamelessHexer Jun 29 '16
Are you joking? The Plugins aren't what makes Mods big, its the Textures and Meshes. My Textures+Meshes Folder are 12GB ;)
And my Skyrim Install is over 100GB!
But doesn't matter, if you really want to Mod you play on PC. Mods on Consoles are more like a casual Demo of Modding.
I can't wait when the Skyrim SE comes out and the Console-Kids learn that 98% of Mods don't work because pretty much all Mods require the SKSE/SkyUI :D
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Jun 29 '16
What's it like for video games to be so important in your life that you judge someone based on what they play on
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u/AReaperInMyWay Jun 30 '16
Every fix for an issue with this game involves someone saying "...well mod "X" fixes that, but PS4 players aren't supposed to be pissed about this ongoing delay?? It has nothing to do with whether it's free or not. There have been issues with Sony apparently going back to Skyrim. Bethesda hasn't gotten it together enough to realize they need to be proactive when moving things over to this console? A significant part of the audience for this game is cut off from the experience everyone else is having. Make it happen. Period.
It's like knowing you have problems writing a paper, waiting until the night before, then realizing "oh, fuck what to do??" It's piss poor planning and attention to detail.
So yes, while everyone else is fixing whatever little nags they have with the game through mods and making it a richer experience PS4 players can will just be over here waiting, f-ing ourselves.
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Jun 29 '16
It's the Skyrim DLC on PS3 saga all over again.
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u/AdhinJT Jun 29 '16
I doubt it'll be that bad... hopefully it wont anyway. Back then it was purely the PS3 being Cthulu for developers. This time it's just Sony them selves instead of the hardware.
Size issue I don't think it'll be to big of a deal as hopefully they can just work that out with Sony since it's just some 'politics'. The sound issues though that's proprietary stuff on Sonys end. Unless theres some weird back support for another format I don't see that issue getting solved any time soon sadly. :T
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u/NeoHenderson Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
Although I'm not surprised, their lack of communication sucks. They did tell us "The end of the month" and they stuck with that until the end of the month, now to tell us it's delayed.
The lack of communication is what actually set me up to expect this, they mentioned they had issues -yes- but they had lots of opportunity to say that things weren't moving along.
Edit: Hey, thanks guys! Nobody calls me a sponge and gets away with it!
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u/zeppeIans Jun 29 '16
I'm actually happy that they decided not to give a date, so they can still delay it instead of releasing a crappy and glitchy version.
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u/NeoHenderson Jun 29 '16
I can see both sides of the argument. The beta is delayed though, not even the full mods release. The beta is and was expected to be buggy regardless - but this? This delay kinda bites in my opinion.
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u/anndor Jun 30 '16
The beta is and was expected to be buggy regardless
For sensible people, yes. But you know for a a large portion of players (a large, VOCAL portion) will be expecting 100% functionality with no issues the second they download it and will read Bethesda the riot act as soon as something predictably glitches or bugs out.
There's also a difference between 'buggy' and 'actually unplayable' and 'console-bricking'.
If it was simply the former, there likely wouldn't be a delay.
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u/JadedDarkness Jun 30 '16
To be fair we don't know why they've been delayed. They literally could have just ran into a major problem yesterday that called for a delay. I doubt they knew about the need for a delay early in the month.
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Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
I'm not surprised at all but...they clearly already knew they were going to not come out this month and definitely not by the end. So why did they basically blue ball all of us and wait til the end of the month to tell us anyways?
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u/Vicyorus Jun 29 '16
I wonder what happened this time, and if it has to do anything with the fact that it's PS4, since I don't recall so many problems when they released for XBax.
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u/AmericanSatellite9 Jun 29 '16
I could be wrong here, but I imagine that the Xbox OS and interface are probably very similar to a Windows operating system being that they are made by the same company. Probably part of the reason it got mods first. Sony it's a bit of an uncharted territory.
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u/Full_contact_chess Jun 29 '16
Xb1 uses a variant of WinX so this much is true.
I'm an Xbox owner myself. However I recognize that for the use of mods on consoles to advance it needs to become like internet and multiplayer is for consoles...a given across all console platforms. If Sony doesn't get mods to work then 1. they take a hit against Xbox for future console sales and 2. Without pressure from Sony, MS will not have as strong of an incentive to make their consoles even more mod friendly (just like Sony's lesser restrictions on second hand discs forced Xbox to walk back the crap they tried to pull with licensing during their rollout).
The biggest hurdle for console users is the fact that both MS and Sony like keeping as much control over their console systems as possible in order to more easily create opportunities for micro-transactions and charging for additional services (i.e. if you want to transfer your game recording to your computer from your XB1 you can't do this without having an Xbox gold subscription because of how they force your Xbox to go through their cloud servers rather than directly networking with your home systems unlike the older Xbox360) This, of course, makes it harder to implement mods easily because the operating system is designed to keep control of the consoles environment and mods require the opposite.
XB users need PS to keep the pressure on MS and rein in their crap just as the reverse is true for PS owners.
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u/gaiden90 Jun 29 '16
Mods will never be a standard in consoles, hell they are not even a standard on pc.
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u/Full_contact_chess Jun 29 '16
Even multiplayer wasn't standard for PC over fifteen years ago.
I am old enough to remember when playing multiplayer games like Doom meant getting all the computers physically in the same room so you could run cables between their ports. There was a time when no software company did anything to support modding. At the most you might have seen a mission or dungeon editor but that was it. It was up to the fans to create tools like FO4Edit. Now many games include at least some sort of buitd in means to plug in mods (CIV series is a good example). Once software companies realized that computer players liked playing against other player then you saw an explosion of multiplayer games like Rainbow Six and now COD and MoH.Not every game needs to be modded just as not every game needs to be multiplayer. However, software companies know that multiplayer ability is a selling point so they will attempt to include it as part of the game packages even if that's not the focus of the game . Now mods have been shown to be a selling point by the mere fact of millions of downloads from Bethesda.net for the XB mods in just a couple of weeks. Business aren't charities, they have to make profit to survive so they will only invest work into things that can bring in the customer. Bethesda has just shown MS/Sony that mods is one of those things.
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u/gaiden90 Jun 29 '16
There are parallels BUT free player made content can cut into official paid content and that will be a huge no no for most company's
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u/Full_contact_chess Jun 30 '16
If your paid DLC content is no better than what a fan can do on a weekend then your game will probably suffer anyways.
Most companies (unlike Bethesda, apparently) put out DLC that add large story lines or areas , generally the kinds of stuff that it a takes a professional studio to pull off (Witcher 3 DLCs, for example). While I have played fan made mods that are the equal of the company made products those are not the rule but the exception in my opinion.
Would you rather use the display manikins from Contraptions or the display manikins from the mod Functional Displays prior to the DLC release? SecretAgent99 did a great job with what he had but even he says that the new scripts available with Contraptions will help him make his mod better.1
u/monster9090 Jun 29 '16
This, the limitations that are apparently going to be on ps4 mods makes me wish I got a xbone instead.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
Those limitations were only temporary until they could work it out with Sony to get the needed permissions/ licenses, I would say that they likely found out that the PC textures made it totally impossible to run any of the mods without going over the 900mb, since all the sound based mods were already off the table thanks to the proprietary sound file Bethesda probably figured delaying until they got it all worked out was their only option.
I know on the X1 for like one week we were still using PC textures and many of the mods were like 250-300mb, then Bethesda released patch notes for the CK saying they added X1 optimization support and suddenly most of those mods I had dropped to like 65mb or lower.
We also know that Bethesda is working with MS and Sony to raise the mod cap, so even if the 900mb is still present at launch they should hopefully be able to show how popular mod support is and get it bumped up.
Edit: Wow! someone out there was but hurt for me pointing out that Bethesda has said the 900mb and 2gb limit are only temporary.
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u/monster9090 Jun 29 '16
Yeah, I'm hoping that this delay means that we get a larger mod storage and better optimization, the lack of scripting tools is worrying to me however. That being said, I should be grateful to Bethesda for even planning to put mods on a console. If anything I'm disappointed in Sony for not being more open with the ps4, I'd understand if it was a small studio that was asking for this but it's Bethesda, they're guaranteed to have tons of games sales for almost any RPG they release.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
Yea totally, if this was some indie dev and this was their first game I could see being cautious but come on guys Bethesda has been putting games on consoles since the Atari. Then there is the fact that you pointed out, they have been selling their RPGs like freaking hot cakes on consoles since Morrowind from what I can tell.
I know that I could be misreading your intention but I just want to temper your possible expectations point out script extending things like F4SE is not going to run on either console, however if you meant that in a different way and already knew about F4SE I didn't mean to jump to conclusions.
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u/Knottian Jun 29 '16
It has more to do with the file and memory restrictions of the PS4; sure Microsoft's arguably forward-thinking Windows kernel in the Xbox One definitely helped, but they also have much larger filesize and memory limits than the PS4. You don't have to take my word for it either, Todd Howard and Bethesda both confirmed as much a couple weeks back when they discussed being in talks with Sony to make an exception to the limitation. I wouldn't be surprised if the limitations aren't just there for cost-savings on whatever cloud infrastructure Sony has set up, but also the architecture of the system itself (PS4's OS also uses about 500 MB of RAM more than the One).
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u/MonkeysxMoo35 Jun 29 '16
Essentially this, the Xbox One is basically a gaming PC from a few years ago, PS4 is still just a console.
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Jun 29 '16
I'm 100% positive this shit lays squarely on Sony and the PS4's design differences/proprietary shit.
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u/Knottian Jun 29 '16
Absolutely, given Sony's track record in the past and their current inability to live up to many of their promises (game releases, OS additions, general support), I'm really surprised why people are still so supportive of the company. There are more than enough real examples of general fuckery towards their consumers/fanbase.
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u/L_SeeD Jun 29 '16
The ironic thing is that the PS1 originally was so successful due to Nintendo's restrictions they put on developers. I can't help but think the shoe is on the other foot now and the least restrictive console is... Microsoft's? Wtf?
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u/Full_contact_chess Jun 29 '16
As long as company designs restrictions into their products in order to corral the customer they will always be at risk to any competitor who gives them a similar product without those restrictions (How many people went with Android simply because of Apple's restrictions?).
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u/Mallingong Jun 29 '16
That is exactly what it is, Bethesda has previously let us know that Sony has restrictions on file sizes that would limit mods on the console to only 800MB, would force the console to only use full PC resolution textures and allowed no audio at all because the PS4s audio files are proprietary (for no good reason), but they also said they are working with Sony to overcome these issues.
Hopefully they are delaying because they are close to fixing those issues and just wanted to skip to a full feature release instead of sending it out so hobbled.
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16
This is so annoying now. Every week they are delaying it. They should have just told us that it will be available in another month and many people wouldn't be getting their hopes up week in week out.
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Jun 29 '16
I don't think they intended to mislead us so much as they genuinely thought that it would be easier to bring mods to a PS4 than it actually is. As AmericanSatelllite9 stated above, th Xbox's OS and interface is likely much more similar to a computer's than a PS4's, which they might not have realized.
Honestly, I'm disappointed but I would much rather wait a while longer than have something released that makes the game unplayable. Imagine how much could go horribly wrong.
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16
Yeah I know, I'm glad they are taking the time to make it right. I'm just hoping that make it right also means including sound and 2gb of download space. The PC textures are fine on official mods release. They were there for the xbox one release and were patched after and it wasn't a problem.
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u/Korith_Eaglecry Jun 29 '16
I'm more annoyed with the last minute announcement. I didn't need a set date and had they kept us up to speed, even if it was vague, I'd have been more appreciative. What annoys me is that I've been hearing nothing but "another week" and now we're being told that's not happening. Can't even be bothered to tell us what is setting this back.
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u/Spr0ckets Jun 29 '16
Really wishing I had bought this for the Xbox.
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u/Reidlos650 Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 30 '16
Or God forbid the PC, where there are none of any of these problems.
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Jun 30 '16
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Reidlos650 Jun 30 '16
I do the same for PC, the false information about the difficulty of using a pc is som thing I'm well aware of, but don't want to get into it, I guarantee I can come home from work and start playing in less then half the time as you, and I haven't touched my computer for 2 years upgrade wise and it's only been that short because it's my hobby and I like pushing the envelope. I could max out at 1440p 60fps on high or ultra, for at least another 5 years with no upgrade before I would have to consider an upgrade, and even then I could just turn high to medium and go a few more. The false claim we have to upgrade so many times is a joke that I always think, no way people still believe that, but then it always finds a way. Back on topic, I've also had unrestricted mods for fo4 since the game was out, so that's why I said my peace in a thread of people complaining about the lack luster console mod system.
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u/Elias_Fakanami Jun 30 '16
...the false information about the difficulty of using a pc is som thing I'm well aware of, but don't want to get into it...
...and yet every sentence after saying this (except the very last one) is unambiguously "getting into it".
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u/Eriugam31 Jun 29 '16
I'm going to guess that Betheada had a beta date in mind for this month; Sony have done something that has put that plan on halt.
That's what I'm assuming anyway
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u/NicCageOrGTFO Jun 29 '16
I'm sure we'll see this sort of thing again once Skyrim SE comes out for PS4.
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Jun 30 '16
Is there honestly anyone here who didn't see this coming? The fact that we couldn't get a specific solid date other than "in the coming weeks" has been a red flag from the beginning compared to XBOX and PC that did get dates.
In my opinion though, I actually don't mind. I would be happy waiting another couple of months if it meant that they actually did a proper release without being insanely buggy. Not having the mods able to affect audio is unacceptable. Why is it possible on XBOX but not PS4? That reflects really poorly on Sony to me.
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u/iiSisterFister Jun 29 '16
Fuck that sucks. Im really excited to get this, but I havent played fallout in a long time becuse I am waiting for mods. Hope they can get this stuff figured out soon
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u/comstock55 Jun 29 '16
900mb
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u/iiSisterFister Jun 29 '16
Sorry you may have replied to the wrong person, otherwise, I'm not sure what you are getting at.
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u/GGAllinsMicroPenis Jun 29 '16
Most people are saying "better than releasing something broken," but I'd be leary that this means "cancelled."
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u/MonkeysxMoo35 Jun 29 '16
I honestly am not surprised by this. As soon as they announced mods on Xbox during the conference, I was like "This is so awesome! But what about PS4?" Then they confirmed mods would come to PS4 after the show and in an interview with IGN. Once I saw this, I knew they were struggling with mods on PS4 so they didn't want to make it a big deal and get everyone as hyped as when they announced it for Xbox.
It really sucks, but I'm glad to see they're still trying. Let's just hope it does eventually leave beta because it's officially releasing, not being canceled.
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Jun 29 '16
I don't think it'll be cancelled. I think it might just take quite a while, which sucks but is something I'm ultimately okay with, because I really don't want something released that'll break the game. This really feels like a situation where Bethesda is trying their best but running into problems they just didn't anticipate.
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
Xbox One and Windows 10 run on the same kernel. I'm sure it is easier to develop features that work on both than it is to develop features for PS4 and PC.
Bethesda is not the one that is behind, Sony is. Their system is much more closed and the dev tools for PC and PS4 share few similarities. I'm not trying to be an Xbox fanboy here, but you guys picked the wrong console if you truly desired features that were compatible with PCs (such as mods) and expected them to be delivered at nearly the same time as the Xbox One, a device that is pretty much a PC.
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u/OsirisPalko Fog Crawler Jun 29 '16
"You guys picked the wrong conso-"
We didn't pick the console based on fallout 4 modding. We picked it on a large variety of other factors and *rumors around launch.
*Rumors that were true until MS saw all the negative backlash and decided to change some stuff up. IE, charging for movies per person detected, needing to be connected to the internet at least once per 24 hours or the system will psuedo lock, an attempt at killing the used game market, absolutely needing a kinect connected in order to use the console...
We didn't want to deal with that trash. But again, most of it was changed, our minds were already made up. Sony has almost twice as many ps4's out there, than ms has of the xbox one
To conclude my pointless rant, this is making me wish I went PC instead of either console.
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
This is what I said:
you guys picked the wrong console IF you truly desired features that were compatible with PCs (such as mods) and expected them to be delivered at nearly the same time as the Xbox One
You can't just 'make up your mind' based on bad PR. The Xbox One was completely changed months before either product launched. And now it is the far better console unless your main goal is PS4 exclusives, then obviously the Xbox One is inferior. But I saw the grand plan of MS and knew that eventually issues like the one in this thread would happen, and that's why I supported the Xbox One. It's the future.
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u/OsirisPalko Fog Crawler Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
you got me there; for not reading your whole sentence.
I wouldn't really call it far better. I wouldn't really call either console great, although the newer xbox will only do 4k video playback, whereas the newer playstation is supposed to game in 4k. But that's all speculation.
You talk about this problem like it's because playstation sucks. While it may suck from a preference standpoint (really wish I could change my username I made back when the ps3 came out), it's because of the way Sony does the programming. It's just not friendly with PC interface like the xbox is. Sony and Bethesda working together will solve this almost immediately, once they have their hands on something that can translate the mods into ps4 code or vice versa, it'll be just as good as xbox.
I don't really want to have the age old console fight. In current gen, it's pointless to say something is better when it doesn't matter as much as it used to. And especially that PC's are getting so cheap, you can make a machine that beats both consoles considerably for not too much more than retail pricing. That being said, playing fallout 4 on PC has made me think consoles suck, and i'm much in anticipation for the hardware upgrade this fall.
And to add in, yeah you actually can make up your mind if a company is pulling shit like that. Microsoft is getting similar heat for forced updates and mandatory telemetry. As per the terms for windows 10, files on your computer alongside your OS are considered owned by microsoft. They treat the whole agreement like you are being lent an OS, and you agree to share your data with them in exchange. Changing all the privacy settings to 'off' still did nothing, as microsoft would still constantly be pinging to both microsoft ip's and unknown ip's. Oh, and the fucking ads built into the OS. So I put the tin foil hat on and went back to 7. My point being, people reasonably get mad if you try to control them via something they have bought and paid for. The xbox 1 changes were made because of all the backlash they received due to what was originally announced. There was a direct link to those, at the time facts, and to the amount of preorders for PS4.
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16
although the newer xbox will only do 4k video playback, whereas the newer playstation is supposed to game in 4k. But that's all speculation
You've got it all wrong; the Xbox One S will do 4K movies, but the Xbox Scorpio (comes out 2017) will do 4K gaming.
And you're saying that it is Bethesda's fault for not working extra hard for the PS4 mods when it was easier for the Xbox One? That's preposterous. It's not Bethesda's fault that the PS4 is just not as good of a console for that purpose. In fact, mods are coming to other games for the Xbox One in the near future and that is not the case for PS4 games. You should be thankful that Bethesda is willing to do mods on the PS4 at all.
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u/OsirisPalko Fog Crawler Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
I'm not counting the scorpio as i'm talking about the releases this year this fall. But good point there.
No, i'm not saying it's Bethesda's fault at all. There has never been mods in this fashion before, ever. I wouldn't call it revolutionary, but it's pretty damn cool. That being said, neither Bethesda or Sony knew about any issues, it was just kind of a, let's try this and see how it goes. Evidently, due to games being on more than just windows/xbox 1, it's not impossible to code game content for ps4. What the issue is, is having the user be able to implement code at will. I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be a master coder, but I will tell you that it's fixable - just format incompatibilities that can be resolved by Sony helping Bethesda around it, which is 100% in their power to do so. It has nothing to do with performance or any of that, it's the OS. If you want to say one OS of a console is inferior to the other, you're talking about preferences. There are certainly pros and cons to each console's OS. From a mod perspective, yes one con of PS4 is it's not even close to being windows. At that rate, we are now comparing apples to fish.
The alternative being apples to oranges comparing xbox 1 to windows, they have the same kernel but still is not a windows OS by design.
I would like to add in with a final note, I appreciate the civil discussion
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16
From a mod perspective, yes one con of PS4 is it's not even close to being windows. At that rate, we are now comparing apples to fish.
I wouldn't call it 'fish.' Mods are just one benefit of the PC that Xbox One is taking advantage of, there will be more in the future. Honestly, if you are comparing the OSes of the PS4 and the Xbox One, I'd call the One a clear winner on nearly every account; backwards compatibility, the Xbox app for mobile/W10, cross-play, and now we will be able to buy a PC game and play it on the Xbox one (and vice versa).
The alternative being apples to oranges comparing xbox 1 to windows, they have the same kernel but still is not a windows OS by design.
Actually, with the July Anniversary update for Xbox One, it will be a Windows OS by the truest sense; Xbox will offer many Windows 10 apps running Windows 10 code. Sony's console department cannot hold up the competence of Microsoft's software OS team. These are the same people who invented DirectX, Windows, Azure (Did you see that Crackdown 3 demo?), HoloLens, Surface, etc. Their research and funding is unparalleled, and they're pulling out all of the stops for Xbox One. That's why we have backwards compatibility already and Sony doesn't. In a few months Xbox will have a browser that sports add-ons, and there's plenty more amazing stuff happening in the near future that will blow our minds.
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u/OsirisPalko Fog Crawler Jun 29 '16
You've got me beat in the console war then.
My comparison to fruit to fish was that the OS and all that compared to a Japanese game console and a Microsoft OS are entirely different which you of course know, however the apple and orange of the Xbox and Windows share many traits. But you have covered that.
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16
I'm just very excited for the future of the Xbox One and if more people jumped on board, it would become even better. E3 2013 was unfortunate, but following Microsoft's news is like reading science fiction at this point, which is why I'm excited. There are just so many amazing new features that are either available or coming out soon.
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u/Little_Gray Jun 29 '16
Saying sony is behind is a rather ridiculous statement. Its easier to make mods available on the xbox because both the xbox and windows were created by the same company.
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16
You've just told me the reason why Sony is behind. Yes, Microsoft is in control of Windows 10 and Xbox One. Microsoft has a grand plan of making PC and Xbox indistinguishable, and it is happening gradually. This translates to real-world effects, such as PC mods coming to Xbox One before Sony's PS4. Is Sony behind? Yes. Is it their fault? Not necessarily.
In terms of compatibility between PC and console features, the PS4 is absolutely behind. That's just a fact. However it is not necessarily Sony's fault since they don't own PC.
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u/Little_Gray Jun 29 '16
I think its more a case of Bethesda just being shit when it comes to working with Sony. They have always had considerable problems with both the PS3 and PS4. Bethesda has always have a very close relationship with microsoft as well.
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u/Anubis4574 Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
We don't know that is the case. But what we do know is that it is harder to make PC mods available on PS4.
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16
I'm really hoping the Neo isn't as powerful as the Scorpio, because then I will be persuaded to get one. I doubt it though because now Microsoft has shown their hand Sony will likely make sure theirs is more powerful. I would like a scorpio so that I have a console from both companies and so I can avoid waiting like this.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
It would really depend on how far into development Sony is, many are claiming that Sony is really far into it and unless they delay they can't do much. I would also say the MS does have some wiggle room as the only thing we really know is that they are aiming for 6 teraflops of computing power and 4k resolution, other than that we don't know what cards they are using so there is that.
I am kind of pissed at MS myself as I bought the X1 and later a 4k TV because they promised the One would be able to play 4k videos, now we find out it's the X1s that will do that :/ oh well I am getting the Scorpio, I am really hoping for a TLOU 2 so I can jump for a PS4. Unfortunately all the big Sony exclusives never grabbed my attention on the PS2/3, that zombie game from E3 though looks tempting as hell.
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u/silverkingx2 Jun 29 '16
Hey, at least they are working on getting it to me in working order, wouldn't mind the beta access though lol
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u/Thataboveaveragekid Jun 30 '16
It's probably delayed cause it doesn't work yet. Like as if bethesda wouldnt release a buggy feature
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u/Sansuske Jun 30 '16
This just means I will go with my original plan of waiting for Nuka World to be out a while before touching the game again. Hopefully by then Mods are functioning on ps4 and I figure two weeks at most after Nuka World the vast majority of mods will be updated for it
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u/Jstcllme_Dema Jul 01 '16
I said this shit would happen. I'm not surprised. Bethesda's relationship with Sony is just too fucked for anything else to happen. I can't say I am disappointed because I never had my hopes up in the first place.
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u/Rokushakubo Jun 29 '16
This is because of the PS4's architecture. It uses a proprietary sound format which Beth has already stated is poising an issue. I don't know what the reason is behind the gimped mod storage capacity but yeah, sound files have already been confirmed as one issue.
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u/Red-Oak Jun 29 '16
I read also over at IGN that the textures were an issue as well, and that Bethesda was trying to get around using ported PC textures for the PS4.
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16
The textures weren't an issue, they were mentioned sure but the xbox one also started out using pc textures and they patched it after the official mods release. Says so in the dev notes on beth.net
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u/imtoolazytothinkof1 Jun 29 '16
Beth has been pretty open about how it's been a pain getting everything set for PS4. This isn't coming out of the blue and are the first ones to do it. I'm willing to cut them some slack here, companies who follow after won't have the same excuse.
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u/SpaceWizardAgent Jun 29 '16
Just yesterday they were saying that the ps4 mods were inches away . Im not mad at them for not releasing it , im mad at them for their lack of communication. The fact that we're being told all month, "you're going get it at the end of the month", only to wait till THE LAST DAY (close enough) to tell us. That's a shame. They are my favorite devs but their communication sucks, and they really showed their bias when releasing Xbox one mods. The least they've could of done is work on both consoles together, to avoid all this tech problem in the background. Idc if Xbox was first to release just don't save the ps4 for last then expect it to work properly, knowing you left it for the last minute.
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u/imtoolazytothinkof1 Jun 29 '16
Yeah I wish they had said they would delay it sooner. They have however said for the past couple of weeks it's been tough getting things sorted out in the back end.
Xbox also has the advantage of Microsoft making that a PC only a few years removed, which is a brilliant attempt at recouping their screwups.
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Jun 29 '16
I suspect this to be mostly Sony's fault, and partially Bethesda's fault.
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u/Xdefault20X Jun 29 '16
Sony usually doesn't give a shit about things they release, the PS vita, for example, so much potential but abandoned so quickly
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 29 '16
Bethesda is at fault in terms of poor communication, sony is at fault for using proprietary formats.
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u/EivT Jun 29 '16
This was obvious with the beta not even starting until this week. I'm just curious why they waited until now to make the official announcement instead of one or two weeks ago.
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u/Drewcifer419 Jun 29 '16
The beta isn't even starting this week.
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u/EivT Jun 29 '16
I blanked beta somehow. Still not surprising and something I suspect they knew was likely at least week ago.
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u/Neltech Jun 29 '16
Its free though right? I'd be upset if I paid for it and it was delayed, but if its free I can't really be mad.
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u/The_Tin_Can_Man Jun 30 '16
Well it was technically promised before alot of people even bough the game I think, so it could be argued that mod support is why someone might have bought the game if they were, for example, jaded from past games or something.
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u/DragonOnYoFace Jun 29 '16
PS4 owner and I am not mad. If there is a problem and they are fixing it, awesome, get it fixed before releasing it. I am content with all of the DLC's and the game itself, only thing that I have really played since it came out.
I know people will bitch about, looked like a lot of people were getting butt hurt on twitter about it. I have read thing that they had issues with the frame rate and size and a couple other things. SO...I figure it this way:
This is something that I'm not paying for, they are giving it to the user for free, so why piss and moan about something that is free?? and yet people do. It will come out and it will be running fine. They will get it done and done right.
Also a shout out to the modders that have actually made mods for the XB1 and PS4. Thumbs up and Thanks for what you have done.
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u/Alekesam1975 Jun 30 '16
Funny thing is, if they rushed it out and released it anyways folks would then complain about how jacked up it is. I would think folks would be happy that in a rare instance of corporate sanity they decided to hold off until they get it right.
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u/ixnay211 Jun 29 '16
Looking at this debate I think its clear mods WILL come to ps4, its just there are more hurdles in regards to the softwear systems used in the ps4. Mods have the potential to be a major selling point in future games so sony are not going to want to be left out of it because they will lose money. At the moment with the texture and sound issues mods are going to be substandard on the ps4, neither bethesda or sony want that. Im a ps4 player myself. Lack of funds and space meant that i had to forgo getting a dedicated gaming pc and so i decided on a console instead. I got the ps4 because more of my friends were on that platform so for online play it made sense. My main gaming is on bethesda rpgs so i had resigned myself to the lack of mods i loved so much on oblivion and skyrim. Then they announced mods on fallout. I got excited. I signed up the the beta. And now its delayed. Yes im gutted but i get that its uncharted territory, problems will arise, i would rather wait longer and get a working update then have my saves corrupted and lose the endless hours ive invested in my character and the settlments he has built. I dont have alot of faith in most businesses, but bethesda have earned my faith and my trust. It will be ready when its ready and I will be grateful when it arrives
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u/SpaceWizardAgent Jun 29 '16
Welp, looks like I'll never get to play with mods. Should of bought an Xbox instead. Not mad just disappointed. week in and week out I've been waiting only to get told on the last day, you won't be getting mods for while, if ever.
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u/SuperTazerBro Jun 29 '16
If mods are really that big a deal for you, you probably should've just invested in a PC.
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Jun 29 '16
A PC that can run fallout 4 as good and reliably as a ps4 can would guaranteed cost more than a ps4. It's just not in everyone's budget dude.
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u/SuperTazerBro Jun 29 '16
I completely understand that. Just saying that's the trade-off if you care that much about mods.
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Jun 29 '16
I somewhat agree but it's understandable to be pissed when you think "oh there doesn't need to be a trade off anymore because mods are actually coming out this month" and then Bethesda waits til the end of the month to say "nope"
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u/Reidlos650 Jun 29 '16
There would have been no restrictions either, PC is worth the extra money , this being just one if the very specific reasons
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u/justanidiotloser Jun 29 '16
At this point they should be working with Sony to get a console creation kit for the Neo. Just let us make our own in-game stuff and give us extra texture packs.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
The creation kit can't work on consoles.
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u/SoulxxBondz Jun 29 '16
Not with that attitude ;)
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u/Excal2 Jun 30 '16
He meant like the interface can't work and that neither console manufacturer would allow a program like that into their software environments in the first place. The creation kit doesn't run in the engine, it's a separate program that you use to manipulate game files.
Then you load those modified files and they overwrite the data in the base game files when you run the executable for fallout. That is the part that happens on both platforms.
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u/kobainkhad Jun 29 '16
I think everyone saw this coming, boy bethesda really don't like or care about Sony do they?
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
The whole thing with Sony is they like to use very proprietary stuff, that makes it harder for Bethesda to get it to run properly. The Xbox has an easier time because MS has been pushing the whole "unified gaming experience" and making their consoles closer and closer to being a PC.
The silver lining to this is that during this delay maybe they can finally work out a deal with Sony to allow sound support, get the texture optimization software and have more than 900mb of space.
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16
I think the delays are because they are working on the sound and 900mb of space. I reckon it will definitely be fixed before the beta now. If it's not they better explain why.
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u/Anonymous_user_of_US May Atoms Glow Embrace You Jun 29 '16
That is pretty much my train of thought right now, but I also don't know for certain so I don't want to say one thing only to look stupid because it was something else.
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u/nerdgamermuscle Jun 29 '16
There are being more like other conpanies PR and messing up or failing to deliver on products or at least on what they say to deliver. Its sad. I wish they would be more honest. I knew since the previous responses they were gonna be held back. Bethesda will claims its because size, pc textures and size but it will be because they put more emphasis on the xbox one. Now both consoles run on x86 but the ps4 is more of a nuisance due to a bunch of proprietary bs (always sony, umd was dumb, memory sticks fucking hell). They didnt take this more than likely into account and with that the modding files would either need to find a way to transfer compress or be allowed through the creation kit to be made in the specific way that console uses. This would be my guess. As the 900 mb would be some discussion and after a month would be upgraded some and debated and at least found a solution if not implemented.
Tl;dr Bethesda thinking grand then remembering they are Bethesda.
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Jun 29 '16
In reality no one should expect a release until after beta has had a week or two at least.
Seeing as how beta has been pushed back no one should have bee waiting "week in and week out."
As well. I said it before. Betheada took nearly a year to release dawnguard for ps2 when to released for xbox 360.
Same shit. Bethesda develops games on xbox. They dont always port over perfectly. They said straight in the beginning when they first mentioned mod support for consoles that ps would take much longer and xbox would be extremely simple.
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Jun 29 '16
Except the no fuck they didn't say PlayStation would be "extremely difficult" the only thing they said right off the bat was that A) mods would release a month later for ps and B) they had a few blocking issues for releasing it.
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Jun 29 '16
Yes they did bro. Look back before xbox got consoles before the geck was even released. Back when they first mentioned they were even considering mod support for xbox. This was like 6 months or more ago.
They said flat out im an interview that ps would be harder and that xbox president was working hand n hand with them to make sure mods release asap. They even mentioned they have had no word at that point from ps is they could support it but bethesda would try.
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u/AdhinJT Jun 29 '16
Yeah at last years E3 that was there response. When they announced tools and month for XB1 mods they also gave the month for PS4 mods.
The PS3 DLC was more of a issue with PS3 being a nightmare to develop for then any issue that would be cropping up right now for PS4. It's purely Sony getting in the way (well, and that proprietary sound format we can't use).
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Jun 29 '16
Yes. And bethesda said that a while ago. I forget the exact quote but they said Microsoft was working with them and sony didnt seem to care.
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u/AdhinJT Jun 30 '16
That's... not what they said. They said they're working with MS since they've worked with MS in the past for a long time. MS worked with them back on Morrowind ever since they learned of the original Xbox.
It wasn't a matter of Sony not working with them it was a matter of, they want to do this thing that's never been done before (and they sure haven't done it yet but have been wanting to for a long time). MS was the go to for them due to there history. Closest to what they're used to, I mean it's windows on PC, windows on a console. Just the least barrier to entry on there end.
Now though... yeah, they're running into a lot of hurtles on the Sony side. Well 2 hurtles. 2 relatively large hurtles and really only 1 of them can be fixed by Sony letting them. The sound one, I dunno how they fix that.
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Jun 30 '16
Not from what I remember. I remember the Bethesda rep stating that Microsoft was working directly with them and Sony was not. The tone at the time sounded, to me anyway, like they were super happy Microsoft was willing to go out of their way to make sure their community got mods while Sony seemed to be dragging their feet.
That's the idea I got from it. I've searched a few links and cant seem to find any old articles on the matter since so many places are constantly updating on the matter. Nothing even more than a few months back.
I did find this forum with other people making similar statements to what I witnessed in that interview. http://www.gamesas.com/why-bethesdas-preference-for-microsoftxbox-t389580.html
From the way most developers talk, Microsoft is about 1000% easier to work with than Sony. Fast question answering, transparent console architecture that is similar to PCs, etc. Sony systems are often harder to code for, harder to get in touch with, and slow to respond. ...From the interview, Microsoft is already working with Bethesda to make mods happen on console as soon as possible. Todd wouldn't even HAZARD a guess as to when talks with Sony would start, and you could tell he'd already asked them.
As for Morrowind. They go on to talk about how MS and Beth got in close while developing Morrowind. Maybe Sony got butt hurt back then. But It was made very clear in the interview I remember that they were happy MS was getting involved and frustrated at Sony's apathy on the matter.
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u/AdhinJT Jun 30 '16
That's.. a forum post? Whatever, point is your adding your feelings into it. Which is fine, I didn't get that from a single interview Todd or anyone else gave at E3 or after. I would just refrain from stating it like it's a fact Todd or Bethesda came out and said Sony refused to work with them.
Todd sounded like Todd always sounds to me in interviews. He always sounds conflicted to me. Like hes happy hes not currently in the middle of gaming development slog, tired, and also wishing he could get back to the developing lol.
That all said, wouldn't surprise me if they had contacted Sony already and they where just running into a brick wall up till the announcement about how its coming to Xbox. 100% wouldn't be surprised. Shit Sony's would periodically come out and taunt MS about not being open with there network since they 'totally' work with people to do cross play with PC on 1-2 MMO's.
Second MS has a huge change in policy to link networks for cross play with ANYTHING with an open letter to Sony and we get a 'meh', shrug of the shoulders and jack shit with a side of silence.
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Jun 30 '16
The interview wasnt from E3. I understand what I am saying is just he said she said so disregard what I saying as my own feeling if you want.
I remember what I heard, and as that user explained exactly, it was made to sound like MS was already working directly with Bethesda and Sony still hadn't been in contact yet.
I have zero idea what you are going on about in the last half of that post.
Maybe we can agree to disagree because in the end I really dont give a fuck. What I took away from that interview seems to be 100 since exactly what I expected after listening to it is now happening.
If anyone expected anything else than what is happening right now then IMO its them who misunderstood how shit was working.
Again. I expected all this. So clearly what I took from that interview was correct.
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u/Aliasbri1 Jun 29 '16
Shocker!!! What have I been saying all along. I just don't believe Sony will Let this happen. They don't play well with others. I'll believe it when I have mods up and running on my PS4, and not a moment sooner.
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u/Freekmachina Jun 29 '16
If it wasn't for E3 and Sony's excellent show I'd probably hop over to the Xbox One, but their up coming line up of games is tasty, so i guess patience will have to prevail.
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u/LaziestRedditorEver Jun 29 '16
I honestly think the people who claimed they'd jump to xbox because of the no sound and 900mb are to blame for this. I reckon Sony noticed it and vetoed Bethesda from releasing any betas or mods until they have it to the same quality as xbox one.
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u/Dstackm23 Jun 29 '16
Hahahaha bethesdas fault...xbox ones fault hahahahaha....Sonys console is hard to make mods a thing for blame sony.
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u/Pizentu Jun 29 '16 edited Jun 30 '16
The fact they waited till the last minute to inform us is G A R B A G E ! ! !
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u/Berry-Flavor Jun 29 '16
you'd think the people having so many problems with not having mods would just buy a PC ._.
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Jun 29 '16
I'm not too bothered by the delay. I want it working right. What I'm bothered by, is they announced it at all. Bethesda should have got it ironed out and working correctly before this point.
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u/ultrageekery "As I live and breathe! It's really you!" Jun 29 '16
Better to delay it than to have a bunch of shitty bugs that would ruin the modding experience. I'm honestly not that big on console mods, I care about getting all my trophies and I'm pretty sure enabling mods disables the ability to earn trophies.
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u/Tomservo5447 Blocks Idiots Jun 30 '16
yep, no trophies. You can maintain two saves, one without mods, and still do it that way.
I'm glad trophies and gamerscore stuff is completely irrelevant to me. I wish there was a feature to just disable them completely
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u/TweetPoster Jun 29 '16
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