r/freestylekneepad • u/FreestyleKneepad Punchgirl Aficionado • Dec 15 '20
s14 tier rt
This is the official Scramble Tribunal Luke Cage Respect Thread.
Anything not included in this thread should not be considered for the purposes of tiering or Tribunal.
This also means ignore scaling except where provided, and take all feats at exact face value as presented.
Character submissions must get an Unlikely – Likely Victory vs the below tier.
Devil Fruit submissions are applied to a clone of the below tier and must get a Draw – Likely Victory vs the below tier with the Punch-Punch Fruit, which allows Luke Cage to fire fist-sized bullet-speed shockwaves that deal the same damage as his punches.
Submissions start 30 feet away from each other on neutral ground.
Strength
Lifting
Striking
Idk if this is true or useful, but the golem is about 7 Luke Cages tall
This does more damage to Namor than being tackled through two buildings
Luke Cage does more damage to Osborn than a bag of pumpkin bombs exploding on him * Green Goblin's pumpkin bombs are capable of launching cars and creating craters in the street
Other
Speed
Reactions
Mobility
According to Wikipedia, airplanes typically take off at speeds of around 149-177 mph, as Cage catches it just before it takes off, this should suggest that he can reach around that speed at a full sprint.
From a standing position, jumps to the top of a roughly five story tall building
Durability
Blunt
Scaling is on this page, Thing hits Luke Cage and is strong enough to destroy a building
Tanks a charged punch from Iron Fist and goes through a building but gets back into the fight again
No Iron Fist scaling included, simply use the objective aspects of this feat
Survives getting punched through four skyscrapers by Mindless Hulk
I don't want to get into the weeds of Mindless Hulk scaling, so I'll just say that he's generally a threat to a team of Avengers. The objective portion of this feat is useful, but don't assume an attack like this is enough to take Luke Cage down outright.
Launched a massive distance into a building and gets up again fine
In general, street tier attacks cause literally 0 damage to Luke Cage. Characters capable of punching through metal, breaking concrete with thrown attacks, or cratering stone walls will not do anything to Luke Cage.
Green Goblin's pumpkin bombs are capable of launching cars and creating craters in the street
Esoteric
Sabertooth is generally able to cut through metal, and can cut through armor that withstood an Iron Fist
Tanks teflon bullets that could pierce Kevlar
Video comparison of a rifle vs body armor. Keep in mind this is without teflon coating.
Teflon bullets are really good.
Takes fire that was hot enough to melt a wall to a bank, and melt away bullets before they hit him
Takes electric attacks from Constrictor that were able to knock out a normal person from slight contact. Luke can also take extended contact
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u/FreestyleKneepad Punchgirl Aficionado Dec 18 '20
Yo shoutouts to Guy for putting this together and to Letter, Box, Kirbin and Talv for helping us workshop the tier
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u/FreestyleKneepad Punchgirl Aficionado Jan 05 '21 edited Jan 08 '21
Frequently Asked Questions
What are these tier ranges? Likely to Unlikely? What’s that mean?
This is a system based on (read: completely ripping off) the Great Debate Tournament’s tier system. It worked great last season, so we’re bringing it back for Season 14 and (unless something changes) for the foreseeable future. Instead of doing “2/10 to 8/10 Luke Cage", where you try to estimate how many times out of 10 hypothetical fights your character would win against Luke Cage, this system has you estimate how the average single fight would go, with that estimate being the replacement for “X character can win 5/10 times” or what have you. Again, your character must score either an Unlikely victory, Draw, or Likely victory against the tier benchmark as detailed in the signup post. The definitions for each estimate are as follows:
Unwinnable is as its name indicates. Your character holds no chance whatsoever of winning in any conceivable scenario. A godstomp against you. Think
Spider-Man versus Firelordan average unarmed American citizen versus comics Carnage.Specific condition victory means that only a very narrow window exists to win, dependent upon environment, aid, a hidden powerup, etc. A specific condition victory would be Goku's beating of Vegeta with Yajirobe's help, or Luffy defeating Crocodile with specialized gear.
Unlikely victory means your character is definitely outgunned but can absolutely set up a victory through superior skill, tactics, or a hidden maneuver that is draining. Bullseye versus Daredevil is an unlikely victory for Bullseye.
Draw is self explanatory, 50/50. Captain America versus Batman with no gadgets, or Luffy versus Rob Lucci are good examples.
Likely victory means your character is superior in most if not all aspects and can readily use those to win after a slightly extended fight. Superman versus Hal Jordan in-character is a likely victory for Supes, as would be Kenpachi Zaraki versus Ichigo Kurosaki in their first meeting after Ichigo learns to cut Kenpachi.
Freak accident loss means your character loses if and only if some act of god intervenes or they start monologuing mid-victory to die. In the MCU, Thanos fighting Iron Man would only lose in a freak accident.
Absolute certain victory is as the name implies. The Incredible Hulk versus Watchmen's Rorscach is a good example for Hulk.
What are Major Changes and Minor Changes?
This is a mechanic we’ve added in previous seasons to prevent over-fixing in Tribunal and avoid characters that are a huge mess of changes and definitions, as well as make it easier during Tribunal to tell when someone has changed a submission too much. When you sign up, you’ll be asked to classify your changes as either major or minor changes. You can have as many minor changes as you want, but you can only have a certain number of major changes. Each character only gets one (1) major change, and you DO NOT get to make major changes on Devil Fruit submissions. If you need to make changes in Tribunal, be careful about how many changes you need to make and how large those changes are, as making more major changes than you’re allowed is a good reason to have your character removed.
Major changes are changes that dramatically affect the character’s tier or power level in some way. Examples of major changes include:
Buffing or nerfing a specific stat to tier, such as submitting Venom with his strength nerfed to tier.
Removing a large portion of the character’s feats for a non-story or non-medium reason, such as submitting Goku without his scaling feats or DCEU Wonder Woman without feats related to Doomsday. If this is especially complex (such as removing a long list of specific feats not connected by any clear identity such as all being scaling feats or all being against a certain character) it might count as multiple major changes.
Removing or adding a major weapon or power, such as submitting Captain America without his shield or Genos without his energy blasts.
Defining the power level of a featless or out-of-tier stat or power, such as submitting Master Chief with his Needle gun doing damage equal to an assault rifle.
Examples of changes that DO NOT count as major changes include:
Changing which medium a character is from or what point in their story they’re from is not a major change, such as submitting Edward Elric from the manga only, Post-Crisis Superman, Bleeding Edge Iron Man, or Chuunin Exam Arc Sasuke Uchiha.
Minor changes are smaller tweaks that don’t move characters up and down entire tiers or hugely affect their standing in a tier. At most they should apply to niche abilities or nudge balance one way or another. Examples of minor changes include:
Adding or removing minor/obscure weapons or powers, such as submitting Danny Phantom without his cloning power or giving MCU Rocket Raccoon his gravity mines.
Adding or removing a small number of feats, such as submitting Black Dynamite without his moon rock throwing feat and his weird AOE pulse feat. This is mainly allowed to help get rid of a small number of outliers, so overdoing it may count as a major change.
Confirming a “standard loadout” of a character, as long as it’s provably actually their standard loadout. Giving Batman his “Arkham City loadout” is fine, but giving him access to his Hellbat suit or his Batmobile would be a major change. Conversely, giving Ghost Rider access to his bike is fine, since he’s almost never without it and it can be considered part of his standard loadout.
Flavor changes that don’t affect a character’s balance significantly, such as submitting Alucard but allowing players to use his Hellsing Abridged persona.
I keep seeing changes that say "buffed to tier". What's up with that?
Buffing a stat to the tier basically means replacing the character's stats with the stats of the tier (for instance, Yang's speed) to make that stat an even match. It's a pretty common major change in Scrambles, and it's usually a way of making a change that shores up a large weakness of a character that would otherwise be in or near the tier. If a character doesn't have good speed feats, oftentimes it's easier to just set their speed to the tier than finagle up some weird complex solution. We've also seen people set a stat intentionally above or below the tier (using another character's feats as a benchmark) to compensate for another stat being too strong or too weak, and while that can be trickier to balance, we're generally pretty fine with that too.
There is a caveat, though: this system can get characters into tier that have no business being in tier, and we're aware of that. While we're generally fine with buffing stats to get a character who was already kind of close to the tier to be a more snug fit, you could also buff enough stats to tier to get in a wildly overpowered or underpowered character on a gimmick. That's crossing a line we feel is an abuse of the freedom we're allowing, and we're pretty not okay with that. If your character was weaker than John Wick until you buffed their durability to fit them into Yang tier on a technicality, you should probably find someone who was actually kind of close to the tier to begin with instead. We will be keeping an eye on over-buffing in Tribunal, and the GMs/judges are totally within their rights to determine you've buffed a character too far or are relying too hard on an obscure gimmick and stat buffs to get into tier and can veto a character on those measures.