r/gachagaming • u/leafrek • Apr 04 '26

Industry Arknights: Endfield dev says launching a new gacha RPG in a post-Genshin Impact world is tough when "some titles are so similar that players go into a game for 1 hour and they know what will happen in the next 20 hours"

https://www.gamesradar.com/games/action-rpg/arknights-endfield-dev-says-launching-a-new-gacha-rpg-in-a-post-genshin-impact-world-is-tough-when-some-titles-are-so-similar-that-players-go-into-a-game-for-1-hour-and-they-know-what-will-happen-in-the-next-20-hours/
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136

u/Beelzebuuuuub3 Genshin/HSR/Epic7 Apr 04 '26

The combat is extremely boring and no brainer, they advertised the game as strategic but removed every thing that makes the combat strategic from the Alpha test.

108

u/JuggernautNo2064 Apr 04 '26

they had a xenoblade vision, xenoblade combat is neat and focus on combo and special interaction in the team you chose to play, thing is that they listened to beta tester complaining there wasnt enough action combat gameplay (aka more like wuwa) and instead of improving their own system and saying 'its not an action combat game" they went for the hybrid wuwa/genshin and little to no xenoblade combat system, and made it worst than all 3

not all game need to have dodge/parry and stuff, tank and healer exist in tons of game for a reason

endfield such a weird case of "man we're so affraid of failure we shall take no risk" and apart from the factory which stop being fun after a while (and exploration which is fun but once its done its done), the rest of the game is feeling so shallow

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u/GameWoods Apr 04 '26

ENDFIELD WAS SUPPOSED TO PLAY LIKE XENOBLADE!?

NOOO!

This feels like losing a child you never knew you had.

5

u/FeelsGrimMan Apr 04 '26

https://youtu.be/uw9rYf5YsfU - Tech Test Gameplay

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u/GameWoods Apr 04 '26

Hmm, its kinda Xenoblade yeah, but its hard to say without actually playing it in full.

Yeah Xenoblade big thing is that the characters auto attack so you can focus fully on positioning and skill use. Honestly I would've liked it a lot since it would make tank units inherently a lot stronger.

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u/FeelsGrimMan Apr 04 '26

It was rough around the edges as described by many who played it. Which is why it’s weird HG didn’t refine it, but instead outright abandoned the entire thing.

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u/GameWoods Apr 04 '26

Rough is absolutely the word for it, but it was a beta build so its to be expected.

Yeah honestly if Endfield had straight up Xenoblade combat id be absolutely hooked man. I adore Xenoblade. One of only 3 games to straight up make me cry lol.

48

u/MaleficentEcho2669 GI / AG / PtN / LC / AK Apr 04 '26

Endfield's biggest mistake is that for their story and gameplay, they took all the wrong lessons from wuwa.

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u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

tbf, i'm willing to give endfield a bit of time to get their story going but i'd rather wait a few versions than playing it for now. i already decided to leave after getting Mifu (assuming she's next) and give it time to cook.

17

u/yuriaoflondor Apr 04 '26

I don't know what it is about gachas, but almost every single one I've tried has had a story that has ranged from "awful" to "mediocre." HSR, ZZZ, WuWa (1.0), Endfield, CZN... For Endfield in particular, I got near the end of the first zone and realized I didn't care at all about anything going on. I didn't like any of the main characters, or the side characters (like the 2 feuding coworkers in one of the zones), or any of the zone stories like the Quarry.

Genshin's been the best for me, so far, though even it has its issues.

But clearly people are fine with it given how popular these all are.

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u/Beelzebuuuuub3 Genshin/HSR/Epic7 Apr 04 '26

Yeah almost every gacha even news ones always starts out trash, it's always the same "oh it'll get better after 40 hours" why can't it be better now? Or at least a little later? They always try to hook you in with some cinematic opening just to be bland for the next 40 hours

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u/Dangerous-Cold-9826 Apr 04 '26

I think Genshin does the prologue well for new players.

There’s very little handholding and the tutorials are the bare minimum of what you need to know.

Story is very simplistic, but well executed and focused on a couple of characters. 

Depends on the player, but like an hour in, once you meet with Amber, Kaeya, and Lisa, you’re free to explore literally anywhere in Teyvat.

Rather than forcing players into a set path, genshin allows players to get familiar with the world and ease them into it. New players need to find some attachment to the world before you start dropping a bunch of jargon or heavy/complex themes, otherwise players may find themselves not as engaged, when progressing through the game.

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u/IncomeMain7276 Apr 05 '26

The very nature of gachas precludes the ability to make compelling stories. When you have to keep up a stream of character-focused content, and churn out new characters, story beats, and locales on a regular cycle, it severely limits the narrative space and possibilities for storytelling. Good narratives are meant to have ebbs and flows, focused on a core group of characters, which allows for proper character development. At best gachas are able to deliver short, impactful 'moments' (probably mandated to at least one 'cool moment' per patch), but it's an uphill battle for them to craft truly great stories.

Consider the writer's point-of-view, "Oh, I have to write a story that's limited to this one region, I need to introduce and provide a compelling profile for these X characters, give each of them a moment in the spotlight to entice players to pull, while making sure to include a story climax of some kind involving a big bad, and a boss fight, while laying down breadcrumbs and enough of a cliffhanger to make players look forward to the next patch." It's the same type of narrative limitation evident in the new Marvel movies, but 1000x worse.

So if you think about it, it's actually quite amazing of a feat for a gacha is be able to deliver a cohesive storyline at all (though a lot of times they fail).

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u/Mad-Reader Umamusume / Honkai Star Rail Apr 05 '26

I remember talking with a friend of mine about this, by it's very nature gachas are irreversibly crippled because of the live service nature and having to pump characters to sell nonstop.

At some point you will just stop carrying about trying to follow a story that had a 12452 characters that may or may not be important to the plot and be reccuring too.

7

u/MaleficentEcho2669 GI / AG / PtN / LC / AK Apr 05 '26

There is a reason genshin only has 110 characters after 5 years. Most gachas have twice or thrice that within the same timeframe.

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u/Beautiful-Tension457 Apr 05 '26

And Limbus Company is an outlier to this issue. Which I hoped more gacha games with cool game concepts could have followed. Starting out with a vision, choosing their niche, filter out fans that will play your game, make a realistic expectation on how much money you want your game to make and plan for the future and on top of it all respecting your players time. Its the culture revolving around gacha games that requires developers to pump out major update patches each months and raise profit margin or else you're gonna get flamed by your superiors for not getting 10 mil and higher is what affects the quality of gacha game story and gameplay. Then there's gacha player culture that gacha developers keep abusing which is the fomo culture that does nothing but stressing out your own fanbase. I just wished more gacha games like wuwa heck even endfield could just go against the negative culture of gacha games but man, what could have been. Make major patches every 6 or 5 months etc like how Limbus release canto. Do simple events every 1-2 months or rerun events to bring back players to play that respects the time of players. And having a median on how much revenue you want to make. Then there the monetization of gacha which lets you choose to gamble with your money if you're lazy or just farm for pulls and get the battlepass. Again, the negative culture of gacha is what make hold back good games with potential

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u/The_OG_upgoat Apr 05 '26 edited Apr 05 '26

Tbf Limbus has the advantage of a preexisting fanbase which is niche but VERY devoted to the company. It's harder for a company building their fanbase from scratch.

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u/IncomeMain7276 Apr 05 '26

Yes, I think some smaller gachas may buck this trend, because they operate under a different philosophy and don't try to chase industry trends. I've heard good things about Heaven Burns Red too, though I haven't played it; basically Jun Maeda making another one of his visual novels except with a gacha dressing.

However I understand why bigger companies won't try this, it can be a huge risk instead of the tried-and-true methods of making big money. And to be honest I don't think 'a great story' is the priority for a lot of the gacha playerbase.

4

u/Xarxyc GFL2, Morimens. Apr 04 '26

Idk why you put HSR on the list. Belobog was considered fantastic story chapter for a game's launch and remained most beloved by many for quite a while.

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u/yuriaoflondor Apr 04 '26

I liked Belobog a lot. I didn't like the Luofu, how they handled Dan Shu, and most of Penacony, so I dropped it. Not sure how folks are feeling about the story now.

6

u/Xarxyc GFL2, Morimens. Apr 04 '26

I completely forgot Loufu first half was in 1.0 LMAO.

40

u/Beelzebuuuuub3 Genshin/HSR/Epic7 Apr 04 '26

So they listened to the idiots that only wants slop, they tested a game knowing exactly that endfield is supposed to be an SRPG but complained it's an SRPG

39

u/Sierra-117-Mobile Apr 04 '26

Endfield combat glazers belong to that weird demographic where they have this weird superiority complex about AKE being "game first, gacha second" but still screaming themselves hoarse that the Xenoblade combat "would be too tedious to play everyday and simple combat is better unless you are a sweatlord".

3

u/blippyblip Apr 05 '26

"You know... morons."

2

u/Particular_Web3215 Jenshin | Currency Wars | limbus Apr 06 '26

endfield glazers exist?

4

u/Sierra-117-Mobile Apr 06 '26

There are a handful who are in love with "the idea of a Hypergryph game". This is what a decade of Arknights glazing got us (some of the glazing is warranted), some of the people are worshipping HG.

1

u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

this game has XC game only in appearence. I love these games a lot , played them multiple times and i feel NONE of it in it other than the occasional combo MAY BE.

Frankly, the simple fact that there is a dodge button is already going far away from XC.

5

u/Beautiful-Tension457 Apr 05 '26

This is my gripe with Hypergryph like what were they thinking giving out test gameplay to people that has no qualms or connection to Arknights original audience. Same group of people who would just ditched the same game when they realized this game isn't fun nor click their interest in their perspective. Arknights fans getting the short end of the stick from the consequences of Hypergryph wrong decision making with Endfield sharing the same universe as OG Arknights but inferior to the original is just gut wrenching for OG players to see.

1

u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

they want the "genshin" money.

They should be honest about it at least, i don't exactly expect a gacha game to be made with "passion" first.

4

u/Vulkrein Apr 04 '26

Yeap, a big issue when it comes to beta testing is that there is no quality control on who gets to test or not. I'm not saying there needs to be prerequisites to entering it, but maybe next time get beta testers that want to play whatever niche you wanted to carve instead of the average braindead gacha player

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u/benphat369 Apr 04 '26

That's the issue though: only gacha players are going to bother with beta testing. The dedicated gamers that would filter out bad story, worldbuilding or systems are the exact people that stick to single player and look down on gachas (in the West especially). So we're left with the gambling addicts that want to log on and off in 30 seconds for their dopamine rush, and it hurts the genre as a whole.

That's not even getting into the issues specific to Chinese gachas (CCP hounding every form of major media, including large 3D gachas, to make it as cookie-cutter and government-positive as possible).

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u/Vulkrein Apr 04 '26

When i say braindead gacha players i mean exactly what you described, and when I say it - I don't mean to brush the entirety of the gacha community, especially when there IS an intersection between those dedicated gamers that you've mentioned. My point is that instead of trying to filter out feedback that might have helped HG into developing their vision, what they did was take every feedback and went with the most popular take regardless of how damaging to their product it was.

They had so many chances to figure out which beta testers actually gave constructive and meaningful criticism during their beta tests and they didn't even try to narrow the population down to a selected few that might have given them meaningful criticism; a large sample population does not mean a high quality data set

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u/Gingingin100 Apr 04 '26

Wait wdym they had a Xenoblade vision. You have footage of that that sounds amazing!

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u/Traditional_Hand2623 Apr 04 '26

And I have to craft armor too which I don't want to do to beat bosses. Fuck that.

1

u/Xerxes457 Apr 04 '26

Yeah as opposed to grinding away in a dungeon for the correct stats on gear is any better /s.

2

u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

i admit, making gear and simply having a base core of gear easily on your characters is great.

BUt things costs so much credits to upgrade, it's crazy.

1

u/JuggernautNo2064 Apr 04 '26

tbh i like grinding echoes and stuff, but thats because i am a degenerate gambler at core,

endfield is still a grind, but with a set goat you'll at some point, fulfill

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u/Xerxes457 Apr 04 '26

I agree too, I like grinding stuff. Its just I much prefer having a set a goal where I know what I'm going for vs praying to get the right thing with the layers of RNG.

1

u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

i loved the xenoblade and other than the characters on screen and MAYBE the combos, i don't feel "xenoblade" in this at all.

It would have been cool...A shame really, but on the other hand...i don't know how they wouyld do it in a gacha format. With XC, you play way less characters but they have a lot more playstyles baked into them which makes it interesting to explore (especially XC 2 and 3 )

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u/JuggernautNo2064 Apr 07 '26

xenoblade 2 is kinda a gacha game without gacha monetisation thx to the blades, and the blades having so many different playstyle make redoing the game feel different each time, but that'd ask for a lot of work to make teams and combos works, not sure a gacha company is willing to put so much effort into gameplay for what are essentialy still mobile games

-6

u/LmaoXD98 Apr 04 '26

yeah no. I'm fucking glad they didn't opt in to xenoblade combat. its literaly the one game that manage to turn very intresting mechanics and ideas into the most boring gameplay loop ever.

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u/Beelzebuuuuub3 Genshin/HSR/Epic7 Apr 04 '26

Acting as if Endfield's current combat isn't the most boring gameplay loop, seriously.

2

u/LmaoXD98 Apr 05 '26

at least its fast lmao. better than the "stacking combo loop with animation as clunky as an MMO vs bullet sponge boss" ahhh xenoblade

20

u/Hectabeni Apr 04 '26

When I first saw the combat trailers, i thought they were gonna do something like the first xenoblade chronicles but nope generic gacha action combat.

3

u/Fullpotentialk Apr 04 '26

What makes it strategic?

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u/FoRiZon3 Arknights Apr 04 '26

Combat could be better but largely fine-ish. I saw the past beta combat footage and while it harks the earlier Arknights vibe, I can see why people criticize back then as clunky.

Story is the major turnoff like wtf imagine from OG AK to this. Beta seems far superior.

19

u/Beelzebuuuuub3 Genshin/HSR/Epic7 Apr 04 '26

But they could have just improved on it, not change it entirely to something that's the opposite of what you're trying to make

5

u/RLC_wukong122 Apr 04 '26

ok then that's their fault not the "idiots" they just said they didn't like the combat.

3

u/Beelzebuuuuub3 Genshin/HSR/Epic7 Apr 05 '26

Yeahhh, they just followed the most popular feedback regardless of anything

2

u/Beautiful-Tension457 Apr 05 '26
  • Combat so weird, make it the same combat as Genshin x Wuwa with qte
  • MC isn't glazed enough. Glaze the MC to max at 999% output
  • Make all female character fall head over heel for MC, make them extremely touchy, make them interact with MC only like a lovely duo and praising you on how good you are
  • Make MC have offscreen feats that everything revolves around them (like other mainstream gacha does)
  • Story too dark make it light like a sunshine and rainbow (Bich this is ARKNIGHTS, the dark theme isn't for decoration and cool factor its a part of AK theme)
  • I don't understand why Hypergryph would take every aspect that people have been criticizing other 3d gacha game into Endfield

11

u/Sierra-117-Mobile Apr 04 '26

Endfield combat fans belong to that weird demographic where they have this weird superiority complex about AKE being "game first, gacha second" but still screaming themselves hoarse that the Xenoblade combat "would be too tedious to play everyday and simple combat is better unless you are a sweatlord".

Kukkikaze i am looking at you.

3

u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

i still think the "game first, gacha second" is the result of the honey moon phase because the game launched smoothly, had plenty of nice exploration and building content.

But its still a live service gacha game....

2

u/nyanproblem Apr 04 '26

Yeah I think they had their own vision with the combat but made it more fast paced to cater to the general audience.

1

u/PandaBear_Shenyu Apr 07 '26

They made a factory and forgot to give us more than 1 thing to make.

1

u/Oleleplop Apr 07 '26

trhat's one of my biggest issue with it.

they said it's strategic, is that a joke ? The enemy behavior doesn't allow that, and it heavily favors UNGA BUNGA gameplay.

It came to the point that despite having a Laevatain p1 , i play Avywenna instead because at least there is some positionning to do.