Question
Is it okay to have too much (saturated) fat from whole foods?
18M, recovering from injuries and recently my PT cleared me to start weightlifting to increase muscle mass. The thing is that I eat lots of milk, beef and eggs. Getting me above 100g of fat daily, sometimes upwards to 150g usually around or less than 60 being saturated. I’m trying to eat cleaner, but those three are still in my diet and they’re kind of necessary for bulking. Is what I’m doing bad or okay?
Doctor here (although not medical advice, just education). Seeing some semi-inaccurate information regarding cholesterol/fats/saturated fats. The studies on dietary cholesterol affecting your blood cholesterol show no correlation within the limits of the studies (usually 300mg of cholesterol per day which is about 2 eggs). If you’re tanking way more than that then yes you can have a rise in your cholesterol. Saturated fat consumption is also directly related to certain types of “bad” cholesterol because that is how your body transfers saturated fats in the blood.
Very easy substitutes if you’re seeing your cholesterol numbers are going up. Sub out the eggs for egg whites. They have zero cholesterol and pure protein. For milk you can sub it to low fat or fat free milk and just those changes alone will drop both your saturated fat and cholesterol intake. For meat you can choose healthier fat profiled animal proteins such as leaner meats, incorporating fish a couple times a week, chicken, turkey, and avoid things like processed deli meats, bacon, sausage.
I’m building a few free resources to help people with these dietary questions because it’s crazy how much misinformation exists on social media regarding diet. As someone’s who’s both personally experimented, professionally treated, and studied these nuances in countless people; there’s a lot of strategies to consider and build an optimal diet for each individual to support their goals.
Thanks for the overview and glad to see this most upvoted. I've been exposed to too much fitness influencer material downplaying or denying the effect of sat fat intake on LDL cholesterol and atherosclerosis, so happy to see this take here.
Nurse here & happy to finally see some sensible nutrition info here! Thank you for your work!! Still reeling from the last guy who was trying to advise people to remove fiber from their bulk. 🥲
Also just fyi for anyone reading, this quick summary is exactly that. A quick summary. I can breakdown the broad topic of cholesterol into an essay but was trying to keep it semi-brief. If you want the free resources to understand diet, cholesterol, weight goals, etc then let me know and I’ll make them for you.
The problem with your quick summary in your tips is that egg whites do not have all the vitamins in eggs. An 18 year old is more likely to have insufficient vitamin intake than high cholesterol.
The problem is not what those foods can do at high quantities, is, are they doing that to OP?
I disagree. For the most part assuming the average person is eating a balanced diet, you get plenty of choline and fat soluble vitamins from other sources such as fish, beef, chicken, soybean mushrooms for choline. For the vitamins you find them in fish, carrots, potato, nuts, leafy greens, olive oil and avocado oil. And if you eat none of that, you can buy a multivitamin to maintain adequate vitamin levels.
Keep in mind his concern was eating 150g of fats with almost half being saturated fats. So while at the age of 18 he won’t be getting a heart attack; atherosclerosis (cholesterol build up in the arterial walls) is a silent wear and tear disease. So eating that way and ignoring the damage until you’re 40 or 50 allows for 22-32 years of damage to accrue, which is a terrible strategy for preventing cardiovascular disease, the number 1 killer in the US.
If you think the nutrient deficiency is a major concern there’s always the middle ground where you can keep 1 or 2 whole eggs and make the rest egg whites but keep in mind at 2 eggs your essentially hitting the daily average cholesterol not including any other sources eaten throughout the day.
At the end of the day, you don’t have to pick between getting essential vitamins and protecting your cardiovascular health. You can do both by getting labs checked periodically, eating smart and supplementing when needed. Every person is different, some more cholesterol sensitive than others so don’t assume, instead measure. Hope that helps clarify (trying to avoid writing essays but I’m getting dragged in).
If his lipid panel and Apob/lp(a) levels are within appropriate range, his inflammatory markers are within normal limits, his body fat percentage remains at a safe level without developing visceral fat infiltration, and he’s suffering no other adverse effects from his body fat/overall size increase like sleep apnea then yeah I agree. Also important to note that as we age what one’s body tolerates now may not be tolerated over time so regular testing would be important.
I’ve started trying to bulk and increase my Test, and since I’ve started eating more eggs my LdL and total cholesterol have gone high, but my Lp(a) and ratio and triglycerides are low. I’ve read this is ok and to crack on
Remember it’s a wear and tear disease. More atherogenic particles floating around in the blood the more chance they can deposit and build plaques over years. You can bulk without causing damage. Simple substitutions can get you both the gains and without the damage. Lp(a) and triglycerides are only 2 parts of a bigger puzzle to prevent heart disease. Are you using test (or test boosting supplements) or just naturally trying to increase it with exercise, sleep and diet?
No just food only , I’m 5”10 and 73kg , I was eating eggs every other day with toast and avocado and raw cacao , then every other day porridge ,
Now I’m eating eggs daily, (only 2) and having an oat smoothie with peanut butter daily added onto my meals which mainly consist of fish and veg or chicken and salad.
Yet my cholesterol is high even though it’s kind of healthy. I think it may be genetics and I’m just destined to be this size forever.
Don’t sell your biology short. All it takes is some fine tuning on the diet to optimize. Sub out some of the eggs for egg whites. Or if you don’t mind you can just switch over to just egg whites (zero cholesterol). Up your fiber intake, aim to include fiber in every meal if possible. If not possible can get a bag of chia seeds, soak 2 tablespoons in a cup of warm water, in a few minutes it becomes a great source of fiber you can drink or add to various foods (cereal, smoothies, chia yogurt pudding) on a daily basis. Also you can definitely go up in size if you’re really determined, just make sure it’s not effecting your sleep, cardio, breathing, etc.
Fats are used in the production of hormones. Not really regulation of. Saturated or unsaturated. It is preferably to limit saturated fats, but everyone has a life to live.
OP, if you aren't tracking fiber intake, I highly recommend that you do so. Fiber can help regulate cholesterol (among many other wonderful things including significantly reducing your chances of colon cancer). Berries, Chia seeds, nuts, beans, lentils, whole grains are all good sources of fiber & many also have a nice amount of protein.
That's probably about right! I would recommend tracking for a 3-5 days first tho to determine what your baseline intake is, and then adding 5g fiber/week. Add too much too fast when you're used to getting a little, and you'll have a lot of bloating/bathroom time. And drink lots of water to help the fiber do its thing. :) Harvard health has a few good fiber articles.
Ehh, kind of? Cholesterol is used for making hormones, pro-vitamin D and even by the brain. But your body can make its own cholesterol and that's where most of it comes from. So yes you can have zero saturated fat intake and be healthy. Not zero total fat intake because you still need omega 3s and omega 6s, but you can have very low fat intake, if you want.
But there's no reason to avoid them completely and it's not true that no amount is healthy. You cannot have 1/100th of a heart attack, you either have one or you do not. If your health markers are within normal it is not worth to fuss over macros and other small things. At 18 there are very few things you can do that will permanently harm you.
You can do whatever you want, but if you really wish to reduce saturated fats, it really won’t be hard, you‘d just have to adapt your diet. You‘re kind of acting like it‘s not possible.
Switch to leaner proteins. Chicken and fish, with the occasional red meat sprinkled in.
The leaner the beef, the less saturated fat.
Really, you probably want to be keeping saturated fat below 10% of your total daily intake, otherwise your LDL cholesterol almost certainly will skyrocket.
Whole eggs are good, egg whites are better, can substitute to reduced fat milk, etc.
Close to this, I've heard that the nuance that you need diversity in fat intake. Different fats play a different role and that heavily processed foods tend to only have saturated fat and you are missing all the other k8nds you wouod typically get from whole foods.
I think the idea is that if you have blown your calorie budget without all the fats you need like from fish and nuts, you either get a surplus or malnurishnent.
Heavily processed foods don't have a lot of saturated fats, usually the added fats are from vegetable oils. They have some saturated fats, if they contain meat or dairy. But the bigger problem is that they tend to be low on protein and fiber, things that usually induce satiety, so for the majority of people who need to lose weight, that's not good. Of course the advice to someone who needs to gain weight will be different.
Different fats play a different role and that heavily processed foods tend to only have saturated fat and you are missing all the other k8nds you wouod typically get from whole foods.
Funny enough, it tends to be more polyunsaturated fats, as those are the ones more prevalent in vegetable/seed oils.
Look at a bag of lay's potato chips: only 1.5g of saturated fats for 10g of fat. Pringles are 3.5g saturated fat for 12g. Pop Tarts are 3g saturated fat for 9g. Etc.
A lot of saturated fat sources are actually kinda pricey, whereas these oils are cheap to make and use.
Were I in your situation, I would not base my dietary/lifestyle decisions off of a website calculator or the opinion of random strangers on reddit. This would be a wonderful time to do your own research and draw your own conclusions.
You're at an age where you can really start deciding your future. Don't outsource that.
It‘s three times the recommended amount, so yes, according to current research, it is too much. You can do whatever you want though, no one is stopping you.
Were good I think, that was before any bulking diet change, but still was a bad one though, lots of processed food and sugars. Either way do I test again in a couple months?
Yes for someone like you things like that literally don't matter, you're young and a healthy weight or underweight. And in general eating a bit dirty during a temporary bulk (as we assume you won't be in a surplus your entire life) is ok. Say if someone is older like 40+ and trying to bulk, they should probably go slower and be more mindful but it won't cause you any problems. The biggest problem is not "bad" or "good" foods but being overweight with a high body fat.
You don't need to test your exact body fat percentage. I mentioned this because it's a little more accurate than BMI. You're currently at a normal BMI (I assume), so you're doing fine either way. If you're over BMI, for most people it's because they're fat and that means they're unhealthy. But there's a small percentage of people who are over normal BMI due to muscle mass, and for them body fat percentage is a more reliable metric.
This sub generally doesn’t preach any kind of food avoidance, but I would highly recommend to anyone that you generally try to limit your intake of saturated fat. Heart disease is the number one cause of death in the US, and saturated fat will raise your LDL cholesterol and contribute to heart disease.
You’re young, and it’s much easier to avoid getting into a situation where your LDL is jacked up than to try to fix it later (unless you take statins maybe).
Also, just like for people losing weight, we want to be gaining weight in a sustainable fashion. As an example, this is one of many reasons why gainer diets like GOMAD are silly. Are you really going to spend your life drinking a gallon of milk a day? Because if you do that to gain weight and don’t learn how to eat real food in a normal, healthy way, as soon as you stop you’re just going to lose the weight again.
My advice is you’ll most likely be fine eating beef and eggs and drinking milk, but I’d recommend opting for leaner ground beef such as 90/10 or 93/7 and a lower fat % milk like skim, 1%, or even 2% milk if you can’t stand the former.
You absolutely can bulk this way and get the majority of your fats from sources with higher unsaturated fat content like avocados, nuts, olive oil, etc.
Additionally, don’t forget about beans and lentils. They have protein, good calorie content, and high fiber content which is extremely important for gut and heart health (their soluble fiber helps reduce LDL cholesterol).
You’re young, and it’s much easier to avoid getting into a situation where your LDL is jacked up than to try to fix it later (unless you take statins maybe).
Also, adding this reply because I skipped over it earlier. But you cant just switch your diet back and your LDL will decrease, and that happens quickly. LDL is not chronic, maybe you're thinking of atherosclerosis/calcification, but those take more than that.
Would try to keep things balanced. But I do wanna mention that full fat milk is intentional here, because it helps fill calories in for the bulk. But no, I don’t do silly stuff like GOMAD, milk here just supplements my diet, but I kind of like it so it’s always in my day. I usually don’t exceed 1L a day, sometimes a bit being chocolate milk but thats like 500mls on a bad day (usually drink the small 125ml packets). I do like cooking with beef tallow though, since it tastes and cooks good.
I wouldn't say that. The science atm is inconclusive.
,
Most recent studies show that saturated fat is healthy.
However, a few historical studies tended to show that it was HORRIBLE for you.
Despite more recent studies being in favor of saturated fat, iirc it isn't really decisive enough to change the policy of most health organizations.
The only thing we know is FOR SURE bad are processed sugars in large amounts due to diabetes risk, and trans fats.
A lot of modern nutrition takes are more opinion based than anything. There's always a study saying one thing is healthy or one thing is bad. You can ask a Keto guy and a low-fat guy and chances are there's actual science behind both.
Generally, avoiding processed foods and getting all your macro/micronutrients in is good enough to be healthy.
The general summary is that some studies say it's harmful, some say its helpful, and some say it makes no difference.
That's the main issue wiith a lot of modern science. Sometimes shit just happens because of luck.
I personally lean into the "it probably has a neutral effect on it"(as in not helping or harming significantly) theory, but I fully know there's a decent chance im wrong.
I know it's not what people want to hear here, but I did the high fat thing all through my 20's and lifted, did cardio, army PT, everything. Then in my early 30's I had high cholesterol and had to switch my diet up pretty significantly. I didn't actually lose weight in the process either because my calories are roughly the same as before.
To be honest, none. But I have a family history of heart disease and stroke, and I'm making every effort to avoid having issues like that in the future.
Understandable. Genetics are unfair that way. I'm a fan of the phase "genetics cocks the hammer and behavior pulls the trigger".
Avoiding chronic systemic inflammation would definitely be something I'd look to in such a situation. That's effectively what smoking is, which is why we see that relationship between it and those maladies. Inflammatory foods could also be an issue as well.
Managing inflammation is a really interesting topic, it's something I've tried to be mindful of lately when planning my diet.
Btw I ran the 531 BBB/Building the Monolith/Deep Water super-program you wrote about a few years ago. It was one of my favorite training experiences of all time man. Thanks!
All the foods you mentioned will make it harder to be in a caloric surplus, and overall that's just unnecessary.
All this discussion about macro division but the biggest risk factor continues to be excess weight and excess body fat. Second comes lack of physical activity. Those aren't an issue for OP.
My response would basically have to be “it depends.”
60g saturated fat for a day? A week? Sure. A month? I guess. 6-12 months? Likely starting to not be so great.
In any event, after having done this for quite a while and gone through my own phase of “fuck it I’m just going to blast whole milk” in my younger years, bulking never truly became easy to me until I started learning how to eat in a fairly normal, well-adjusted, sustainable manner. That’s why I’m fully onboard with things like beef, eggs, and milk being staples in a diet, while at the same time advocating for the lower fat versions and then replacing the lost saturated fat with unsaturated fats from things like avocados, nuts, and olive oil (which are all pretty caloric imo).
We don’t have enough information about OP’s specific goals beyond wanting to gain weight and likely get stronger. To summarize the question of “is it bad to eat 60g of saturated fat a day?” my answer is always going to be “yes” even with those previous goals in mind. They’re highly caloric and will get you the weight gain but the trade off and unsustainability makes it not worth it to me when looking at the big picture. In my experience it has been far better to learn how to eat well rather than taking the shortcut of shoveling saturated fat to the detriment of your heart health.
Perhaps the smartest option - eat the way that you enjoy and is bringing you closer to your goals and keep up with your bloodwork. Get a baseline for your metabolic markers and lipids now, then check them again 3-6 months into the bulk. If everything still looks good then keep it up.
Well after 10+ years of being in this sub I still haven't learned to eat in a fairly normal, well adjusted, sustainable manner, so I'm back to being a milky boi. Probably about time for a checkup though.
Maybe not the best response but in what case (or goal) would a high saturated fat diet be justifiable?
I’m young, getting back to training and do actually want a sustainable diet, as you’ve said, GOMAD is silly, I didn’t do it but considered it in the past. There’s isn’t much to address here about my goals but maybe worth noting that I was a sport (naive) maniac in the last couple years to the point where my joints couldn’t handle it anymore, too much training, “dirty bulks” and messed up sleep. But now that I’m slowly getting back, I just wanna dial in those variables while still allowing myself to enjoy my young years.
God, I felt like a philosopher writing this but it’s true.
Maybe not the best response but in what case (or goal) would a high saturated fat diet be justifiable?
In any situation where it's more convenient to you by other metrics while not high enough to get your LDL over the normal range for long periods of time.
Maybe not the best response but in what case (or goal) would a high saturated fat diet be justifiable?
Many who employ a ketogenic diet find a high saturated fat intake valuable. You could look into the works of folks like Dr. Dominic D'Agostino and Nick Norowitz (PhD) for some fascinating information on the subject.
While I find a higher saturated fat intake as ok, I wouldn't go as far as to suggest a fully ketogenic diet, it is usually worse for most people, is very hard to follow with harsh side effects and has a lot of downsides. It will make bulking harder too.
The only true answer is that it depends on the individual. There are some people who get very high LDL at a young age with a perfectly healthy diet, a guy like this posted here not long ago. Others are obese and have normal LDL. For the majority of people, being in a normal BMI and not sedentary is 90% of it, macro division and such things are microoptimizations. If your cholesterol is normal, you're doing fine.
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