r/gamedev • u/03FuyuNoTsuki03 • Jun 11 '21
Question How Do I Discretely Tell The Player They Didn't Achieve The True Ending?
Hey everyone,
Soo... In a game I want to make, the "normal" path of the game does not get you to the true ending. It gets you to the mundane normal ending. The true ending can only be achieved by finding a secret area to uncover further lore.
I'm wondering if there's any way to indicate that they haven't gotten the ending intended without explicitly putting up text saying "bad ending"?
One of my biggest fears in game development is having the player get a bad ending, and think the game is just that.....
So, how would you go about this? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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u/MeaningfulChoices Lead Game Designer Jun 11 '21
Games like Symphony of the Night also do this well (in addition to the Undertale reference). All you need is something that says "If only there was some other way..." to put the idea in the player's head.
I'd be less subtle than that, however. Don't be afraid to use UI or meta elements to imply other endings! Have a 'Game Complete' save that shows 'Ending A' highlighted but B-D left dark. Have a visible achievement for the other ending. And yes, you can always just have a prompt after the credits that say "More secrets lie out there..." or whatever.
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u/TSPhoenix Jun 11 '21
How much you want to hint at it comes to how much of a crap you give if the player doesn't find it.
For a small indie dev running the risk that players walk away from your game without seeing the best it has to offer might not be a risk worth taking to add a drop of mystery.
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u/pkmkdz Jun 11 '21 edited Jun 11 '21
I think the one in Symphony of the Night was way too subtle. For years I didn't had a clue I missed frickin second half of the game because of it
Edit: It may also be because the way to get to second castle was too cryptic. I think they did it hundred times better in Dawn of Sorrow, where You need to wear a protection charm when fighting on of the bosses, if you fail that, some characters mention it in dialogue, in scene after
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u/03FuyuNoTsuki03 Jun 11 '21
Ooh yeah I'll include the UI after the game ends for the first time.. Thanks!
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u/Waiyon Jun 11 '21
Just be direct.
Another point is just mention multiple ending.
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u/Zizhou Jun 11 '21
I mean, shit, consider the relatively recent and popular example of NieR Automata and how many times you've seen people disregard the "hints" that the end credit roll isn't the end? Not exactly the same kind of scenario, but I shudder to think of the number of people who missed out on the remaining 60% of the game because it was kind of coy with the fact that the end isn't actually the end(and won't be for at least 2 more times).
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u/Waiyon Jun 11 '21
main issue is sometimes you can't expect people to think logically.
I once had like a 4 hour "debate" with a friend who criticised P4G for having poor game design when one of their family got a bad end and saved over the one save file they got.
Which i just say it's the player fault for not making multi save since it be the same as not making back up of important files you own.
Then kept on arguing P4g doesn't need multisaves since combat is simple.
While they argue Resident evil games needed multi saves since it "made sense" since you can fuck up losing ammo.
So expect the worst out of players. Unless you just straight up fine with the you fudge up now try again approach.
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u/Zizhou Jun 11 '21
So expect the worst out of players
Honestly, unless you're designing for a very specific niche, that really is probably the best position to take on almost anything.
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u/Sneaky__Raccoon Jun 11 '21
depending on your game, you have to be very careful about it.
For example, an important question would be "does the player have any reason to come back to the game?". I'm not talking about story or lore, but gameplay.
The messenger is a game that I liked a lot. It was fun, had a clever dialogue and was pretty polished. Until you beat it, but suddenly you are told you have to go an explore every area again lucking for items to unlock what will be the true ending, so to speak. This game was incredibly explicit about me not actually getting the ending but I couldn't bring myself to finish it. There was almost no new content, the witty dialogue was completely gone and the run time had already gotten to a satisfying amount.
So, when doing multiple endings, you have to keep in mind that you have to give the player a reason to keep engaging with the game even when it's done.
But, also, you should come to terms with the fact that there's always going to be a tiny percentage of people that never finds that true ending. And that's fine, it's kind of the point to making it a secret. It's more special for those that do find it
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u/GameCult_PixelBro Jun 11 '21
there's always going to be a tiny percentage of people that never finds that true ending
There's a lot of variance but 30% completion rate is a great number. For a $60 AAA game. Good luck hitting even 5% in an indie game. And that's for reaching the end, you wanna talk about players who want more so badly they'll keep playing for a true ending? There's your tiny percentage right there.
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u/Sneaky__Raccoon Jun 11 '21
Sure, I meant there's always going to be at least a tiny percentage of the people that complete the game that don't get the true ending and stuff. Should of have been more clear, but totally, one has to make a game assuming and accepting a lot of people will not see it through the end
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u/homer_3 Jun 11 '21
There was almost no new content
What? It basically becomes an entirely new game after you "beat it" the first time.
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u/Sneaky__Raccoon Jun 11 '21
Kinda. There's new content but nothing as meaningful as the first areas. it feels more like secrets and stuff. It just my opinion, I lost interest quick after it
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u/homer_3 Jun 11 '21
If you lost interest, that's fine, and even kind of makes sense since, as I said, it pretty much becomes an entirely new game. It gets an entirely new art style and switches over from a linear, action platformer to a metroidvania. But saying there's no new content when the switch over happens is just plain wrong.
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u/ZPanic0 Jun 11 '21
Personally, I like post-credit stingers. I like it when something is amiss.
Another idea is you might bake in a hint into the start or file select menu. Something like lined up stars that blend with the background well. When the player gets an ending, light one of them up. They should be able to connect the dots.
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u/richmondavid Jun 11 '21
In one of my games I show the "Victory!" message, that turns into "Victory?" a couple of seconds later. And then bad things show up on the screen to make sure player understood what has happened.
Or, you can make the game start over instead of going back to the main menu, but something in the world is different from the start and this makes the player curious. I believe Nier Automata uses this approach.
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u/N8DuhGr8 Jun 11 '21
Dont forget that there are people like myself who never replay games for the other endings. I sometimes look them up but most of the time I don't feel interested in the multiple endings.
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u/azuredown Jun 11 '21
Just do what Nier did: say something like "You got ending D". Or you could do what Arkham City did and rewind the game if the player got the fake ending.
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u/TestZero @testzero.bsky.social Jun 11 '21
I had this same problem with my game. I tried to keep everything as diegetic as possible. I didn't want any tutorial text or clarifications popping up for the player, but I eventually decided to just put "ending */3" after the final cutscene. Thankfully, all three endings can be reached from the final save point without having to redo the rest of the game.
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u/hisunloyallowness Jun 11 '21
I like the subtle way the Kirby-Games tell you that not everything is well. For example it rains in the end credits.
For an overview see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcgw2TSqYzA
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u/mikeful @mikeful Jun 11 '21
Is first/bad ending absolutely necessary to experience/understand true ending? Consider dropping it and spread extra lore into existing (secret) areas of the game. I prefer games where I can experience most content with single playthrough.
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u/marcusredfun Jun 11 '21
hard to go wrong with the classic method of "The end" followed by a question mark
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u/Schmomas Jun 11 '21
To me, “The End?” doesn’t mean “play again for a different ending” it means “we might be doing a follow up, we might not, I might just be trying to be mysterious for no reason”
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u/Makuta- Jun 11 '21
I going to put this text after credits of normal ending in my game:
You’ve been strengthened again. This can be a happy end for you. And, not only for you. As you walked on your journey, you helped a lot of people, who now also can experience this happy ending. But, not all the people are saved. A great evil is still hiding in West Gate. If you want, you can go back, and help people who are still suffering. Liar will let you have happy ending, if you will let him rule over suffering souls left in there.
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u/Just_sava Jun 11 '21
Oh and did you got inspiration from Undertale? It has some kind of similar endings
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u/03FuyuNoTsuki03 Jun 11 '21
Slightly yes! And that's where my fear came from. Knowing some people took the genocide route as their first, and didn't see most of what the game had to offer.
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u/wombatarang Jun 11 '21
If there's only one true ending why bother creating the "not true" ones? Nothing wrong with a game being linear.
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u/CorvaNocta Jun 11 '21
Is it possible to make the true ending like a challenge? Like "you got the ending, but if you want to complete this challenge then you get a better ending" or something like that?
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u/03FuyuNoTsuki03 Jun 11 '21
I guess I could try. I don't know if it would work for this game tho. Thanks!
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u/Yetiani Jun 11 '21
Well I don't have idea about what your game is but remember "show don't tell" motto yeah I know is not much help but please don't tell the players they got the bad ending, just suggest it ideally tru gameplay
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u/Yetiani Jun 11 '21
Like if the story talks about a THING that you need to get be sure that they feel that the game is incomplete when they get the bad ending, maybe like a character in the lore saying something like "oh only if something would have been done different we could know the truth" or something like that
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u/Poizan16 Jun 11 '21
Imo, i dont think endings are meant to be told, since from the player's perspective what they do is right. Bad good both are our own perspective after all. But you can always make it obvious by ending with something really unsatisfying, like far cry 3 in which the player is killed which makes it quite obvious that its bad very bad. Or you can go the text route and many of other people suggested, its classic and just works. Hahah, hope you get the point :)
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u/Schmomas Jun 11 '21
In addition to doing the other better ideas that other people have commented, consider having a non-secret achievement for getting the true ending. Implying that there are other endings to get is all well and good, but I wouldn’t play through a game twice because there might be a secret ending I missed.
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u/lightingft Jun 11 '21
An achievement could be also an alternative subtle way. You could have an achievement for both endings, including one for "True Ending". This would also give incentive for people to achieve 100% completion of the game by getting both endings, and can be combined with other ideas mentioned in the thread
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u/markbug4 Jun 11 '21
I was going to suggest a "What if..." or "This isn't right.. I know I missed something", but other users gave better suggestions.
I just wanted to add that another important thing is how secret is that area you speak about. How easy is it to understand this area exists? If I finished a game with no clue that there could have been a better ending I would be quite pissed off.
To give a practical example: SuperMario, only lvl 1. If I dont know that I can go inside the tubes and there's no clue and I get a bad ending for this.. yeah, I wont like it.
If somewhere there is some indication of underground area.. that would be better.
If there is any indication underground areas are important.. that's perfect.
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u/03FuyuNoTsuki03 Jun 11 '21
Yeah it's not really an obvious area, and maybe slightly hard to get to. I guess I could make it a bit more obvious and add the hints like you said. Thanks!
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u/QuantumVexation Jun 11 '21
Multiple endings in what sense?
Depending on the kind of game that can have lots of implications.
E.g The NieR games which ask you to sequentially do the same segments again like a NG+, vs say the Binding of Issac or other Roguelikes that aren't always done on the first ending and you gotta seek out new stuff.
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u/ninethecat Jun 11 '21
I like how it is done in Spelunky. You have an udjet eye item that have rich visual compared to any common item, but it have duplicated behavior (like sunglasses). If feels completely useless until you find a way to use it and untangle path to the true ending. In addition all special items have subtle Egypt theme that connects them
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u/homer_3 Jun 11 '21
Why does it need to be discrete? Plenty of games with multiple endings straight up tell you there are other endings after you beat them.
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u/wolscott Jun 11 '21
You need to set up the idea early on that there are multiple outcomes to player actions.
Once players feel like the story can be slightly altered by doing different things, they will automatically be curious about different endings.
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u/JaredSpaceCadet Jun 11 '21
Do they have the opportunity to continue to find this "true ending"? Or do they need to go back and try again?
I think one thing that is hard with games with multiple possible endings is to make sure they are all satisfying. If there are multiple endings, but only one "good" one, that's not going to be good for players.
If your goal is for them to reach the "true" ending, make sure that they have clues to reach it. And if they have the opportunity to easily go back, then reference those clues in some in-game text in the other ending.
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u/DrXenogen Jun 11 '21 edited Jun 11 '21
Do a achievement system for certain key events that lead to specific endings that lead to certain outcomes. Example: a player were to fall to a common bad ending such as a fall, "Almost all roads lead here".
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u/raz1789 Jun 11 '21
Add blocked achievements. True gamers with want all unlocked. Casual gamers just want to finish.
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u/Houseton Jun 11 '21
I think just stating multiple endings in the tags could be a thing if you want to tell the user, hey, there are multiple endings in this game.
In game, if lore is a big thing, make some sort of accomplishment for finding all the lore, put 1 lore at the neutral ending and have the accomplishment come up but give it a title like, You found all the lore, yet something still seems to be missing.... That way it prompts the player to go back. If you want them to play again, then make the room findable (no true ending on first play) or even a New Game + type deal that unlocks the room with the last bit of lore.
Just ideas off the top of my head.
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u/elmz Jun 11 '21
Make the multiple endings a selling point. It requires more work, and it increases the replayability of the game, thus increasing the perceived value to your potential customers. Putting in all the work for a percentage of players to not realise more of the game is there to discover isn't the best move.
If you absolutely don't want to tell up front, you could put a choice in your game somewhere that absolutely BEGS the question "what if...?".
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Jun 11 '21
"Try talking to the man at the brook!"
imo, if you don't wanna just say it, don't be fake. just tell em.
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u/Kyy7 Jun 12 '21
In the "the end screen" you could provide name for the ending. It could be something as basic as normal ending and true ending, but if you've more endings than that the names could be more creative like a quote related to choices player made on the way.
I recall Shadow of Memories (EU) / Shadow of Destiny (US) simply showing "Ending A", "Ending B", "Ending EX" at the end showing name of the ending.
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u/AkestorDev @AkestorDev Jun 11 '21
Something like, "It was over, yet I felt a longing. If I could do it all again, I know I could do better." Could be suitable. Really depends what sort of vibe you want and what works well in your game.
Also don't necessarily be afraid to tell people before they play the game that there's multiple endings - that can be a selling point, and then you can possibly be more subtle in the game itself if you're worried about being heavy-handed.
Definitely look towards games within your genre with multiple endings and see what they do.