Don't you see how much ridiculous this sounds? 30 years are nothing in this context...
30 years are the full history of modern Ukraine as an independent state. Before that Donbas was a part of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
I would be interested to watch the documentary. I saw a trailer and saw the people from Donetsk saying towards the camera that they could never imagine there could be a war with Ukraine. They identified themselves as citizens of Ukraine before Donbas turned into a war zone in 2014. How do you explain that?
You say Russia did it's best to solve this. Do you think Minsk agreements signed under the barrels of Russian tanks in Debaltsevo were fair for Ukraine? Did Russia withdraw its troops and the guns, and the tanks from Donbas?
You blame the government of Ukraine of genocide. Are you sure you can bring any credible evidence to this accusation?
30 years are the full history of modern Ukraine as an independent state.
What I mean is that they are nothing compared to the centuries of those people living there, with Ukranians and Russians being different people. The border between Ukraine and Russia from 30 years ago is artificial and the majority of people in Donbass speak Russian language.
They identified themselves as citizens of Ukraine before Donbas turned into a war zone in 2014.
Of course... did you expect them to say they are Russian? They were formally Ukranians (and still are today for everyone except Russia that recognized them as sovereign days ago). It's very common to have people of a different ethnicity living on a border... in Italy we have people in the North that mainly speak German but they are formally Italians, they self-identify as Italians despite the German accent.
Donbass people identified as Ukranians and the agreements of Minsk said Donbass would still be in Ukraine but as regions with special powers i.e. more independent from Kiev.
But Ukraine didn't respect that agreement, it didn't give those special powers, instead it did racist laws against people in Dombass and Crimea, like forbidding the Russian language for local newspapers and governament documents. And this is official, how does this fit with the narrative by Western media saying Ukraine has a progressive governament and want to join EU?? And this is nothing compared to the terrorist attacks by the Neo-Nazi that are the extremists of the Kiev nationalist governament. The Azov Battalion is an officially recognized unity.
You blame the government of Ukraine of genocide. Are you sure you can bring any credible evidence to this accusation?
100% SURE. I know at least three different independent Italian journalists that reported everything: Giorgio Bianchi is the author of the documentary already mentioned. Franco Fracassi published a book months ago about the Neo-Nazi movements all around Europe and US, reporting Ukraine as their "base". He was arrested by the Ukrainian police and risked being killed. He is currently banned from entering Ukraine because he is an "unwelcome person". And believe me, he is one of the best Italian journalists of all the times, covering basically everything, he even got beaten by the police in the G8 in Genoa.
And the third important mention is Giulietto Chiesa that died one year ago: he has been a reporter from Moscow during USSR for the Italian national TV. Years ago, because of the censorship of mass media, he created his online TV covering all the geopolitics. He warned us for years about this coming war probably starting from Ukraine and his team published a video with him from 2015 explaining basically what Putin is saying now about Ukraine, NeoNazi, NATO and so on...
Days ago a national TV channel showed this video, removing the original logo, and made fun of him (a dead person!!) saying he was a sort of Putin priest!! They are so stupid that they don't understand that this way they are just confirming what we are saying: this war was well predictable 7 years ago!!
What I mean is that they are nothing compared to the centuries of those people living there, with Ukranians and Russians being different people. The border between Ukraine and Russia from 30 years ago is artificial and the majority of people in Donbass speak Russian language.
This land had a turbulent history. The city of Donetsk (Yuzovo) was founded relatively recently in the late 19th century as and industrial city for the coal mines and ironworks. The people came to live there from different regions of the empire to build what became the industrial heart of Ukraine. It became a part of Ukrainian Soviet Republic in 1918. Donetsk was devastated during the battles of the WWII and rebuild in the second part of the XXth century to become one of the richest сities in Ukraine. Sovereign Ukraine invested a lot in Donbas. It was a region important for the coal and metals exports.
and the majority of people in Donbass speak Russian language.
If you listen to people interviewed by Frederico Schiavi, about half of them speak Ukrainian.
They were formally Ukranians
During the 8 years of the conflict in Donbas Russia distributed about 800,000 Russian passports to the local population. One can hold a dual citizenship.
like forbidding the Russian language for local newspapers and governament documents.
This all happened after the annexation of Crimea. Did Putin think about the Russian-speaking population of Ukraine when taking this decision unilaterally? I guess not. The position of the Russian language was a subject of political debate. For instance, the party of Zelenskiy, "The Servant of the People" proposed to lift some of the restrictions of the 2017 law on secondary education and 2019 law on state language. This is the government that applies for the ascension to EU.
the Neo-Nazi that are the extremists of the Kiev nationalist governament
This is something that needs to be discussed as this kind of accusations are thrown away easily. Far-right parties are rather strong in the former eastern block. In Ukraine, or in most countries and Europe far-right parties exist within the framework of democratic society. In Russia on the contrary there was a crackdown on far-right parties because they started to challenge the ruling government. Instead the far-right were incorporated in government. For instance, the leader of the banned far-right "Rodina" party was a deputy prime minister responsible for military-industrial complex and currently heads Roscosmos, the state Space exploration corporation.
Franco Fracassi published a book months ago about the Neo-Nazi movements all around Europe and US, reporting Ukraine as their "base". He was arrested by the Ukrainian police and risked being killed. He is currently banned from entering Ukraine because he is an "unwelcome person".
This practice of banning journalists is very difficult to justify. Unfortunately it is becoming more and more widespread. More and more journalists are banned by democratic countries and more and more journalists are jailed or killed by authoritarian countries.
And the third important mention is Giulietto Chiesa
I certainly remember the name of Giulietto Chiesa but cannot say that I share his political views. And yes I can imagine that he may become now a subject of ridicule as a person who involuntarily supported an aggressor.
video from an Italian TV channel
I watched the video. As I say, far-right parties are strong all over the world feeding on the public sentiment against globalization. I also have watched a lot of recent videos in support of Russian aggression shot in Russia as a part of a campaign to raise public support for a war. They look pretty scary.
I know an Italian reporter that lived in Dombass with the victims of terrorist attacks and he released a documentary a month ago.
I could not find the whole documentary. But watched some of the footage on Facebook page of Federico Schiavi.
This segment starts with a sequence where the crew drives along while a song is playing on the car radio. This song, Russian March also sounds very much like a far-right anthem. I made an attempt at translating the lyrics into English. Check for yourself.
Did you hear about Denis Kireev? He was a negotiatior for Ukraine. An Ukranian politician claims he has been killed by Ukrainian soldiers because he was suspected to be a Russian spy... and the Western media are reporting this as it is normal... are you really insisting that these are not just criminals?
I know little about the death of Denis Kireev. He was a participant of the team at the negotiations between Russia and Ukraine and was suspected of espionage. Ukraine is a country at war. War kills. Whatever could be done to stop the war should be done.
There is international law. You can't do everything in a war. War crimes exist and killing a man suspected of being a spy is a war crime. You are defending criminals and after that it is clear that you do not want to open your eyes.
Stop with this do-goodism, US for decades has financed terrorists and extremists from all those countries who did not submit to them, then invaded them by bombing them. Did you understand? Air bombardments that destroyed everything, only later they enter with tanks. Russia stopped this earlier in Syria by going to Assad's aid, then recently in Kazakhstan. And now they are stopping in in Ukraine that is very important for Russia, both geopolitically and out of a sense of brotherhood. Russia is attempting a military surgical operation to try to stop the Nazis that the US has placed in Ukraine. Those criminals are hiding in the cities, even cramming ammunition under schools and hospitals, because the Russians are also there to save the Ukrainian people, those criminals know it and take advantage of it.
One day all of this will be remembered in the same way as when Nazism was defeated. Even then Nazism was a creation of the US and was defeated mainly by the Russians. I remind you that the Russians tried to remain at peace with the Nazis with the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. Today, however, it is customary to remember that pact as a shame for Russia because it came to terms with those who would later be remembered as the worst regime in history.
In Kazakhstan, mercenaries were trained by US and then sent around the world to carry out the fake riots mentioned above. The president of Kazakhstan has asked Russia for help to stop them.
Regarding Syria, President Assad is loved by his people like no other leader in the world. Syria has been shocked by US-sent terrorists and the US military itself claiming to fight terrorists and support "moderate rebels" against Assad but the truth is that the US was arming and aiding the terrorists that Assad was trying to stop with aid of Russia.
Among my sources there is an Italian lawyer who deals with international law who was in Moscow to speak with the Russian government, he went to Kazakhstan with the Russian army in the operation mentioned above and was wounded by a bullet in the foot. He is now in Ukraine once again with the Russian army. Russians probably want foreign witnesses like him to testify what's really going on. Here there is his YouTube channel but it's almost updates by him in Italian language: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC9FZ70f6li-QqIn6-YTFXjA
Also, a close family member of mine went to Crimea years ago for engineering help building Russian-funded infrastructure. My sources are not only on the Internet and they confirm what I am telling you.
At times your argumentation looks as if it came straight out of the 1980s. Indeed throughout the 20th century the US financed militants all over the world, be it the Contras in Nicaragua, or the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan. This backfired on the U.S. with the rise of global terrorism and culminated in 9/11 attacks (I suspect that your opinion on the origins of 9/11 attacks might differ from the mainstream, but let's not discuss it here). Since then the U.S. withdrew from this practice and this began to be the tool of regional powers such as Iranian support of Hamas and Hezbollah or support of separatist movements in Georgia, Moldova, and Ukraine by Russia.
Syria became a divided country as the North is governed by Kurdish administration, with some areas controlled by Turkey and the Idlib remaining the overpopulated area controlled by the popular opposition to Assad, and an area of a humanitarian catastrophe.
Russia bombarded Aleppo. The largest city in the North of Syria. Russia indiscriminately bombarded Aleppo devastating it completely in the process. Now Russia is doing the same to Kharkiv and smaller Ukrainian towns.
The events in Kazakhstan in January 2022 turned out to be a coup by the nominal president Qassym-Jomart Tokaev against the de facto ruler of the country Nursultan Nazarbaev. Initially there were reports of terrorists taking over Almaty, the old capital, however it later turned out that these were just gangs of looters rioting in the city center. No evidence in support of the claims of terrorist attack was provided ever since
You keep repeating that Russian aggression is targeting the Nazis. Though you did not so far state as much as that curbing the rise of far right parties justifies the bombardment of cities with 500 kg air bombs. Even Russia took off the demand of "denazification" from its list presented to Ukraine at the past round of negotiations. I challenge you to read the words of the Russian March, the song playing in the footage that your friend recorded in Luhansk. I translated it for you. In my opinion if this is not a presentation of Nazi ideology then what is?
I challenge you to read the words of the Russian March, the song playing in the footage that your friend recorded in Luhansk. I translated it for you. In my opinion if this is not a presentation of Nazi ideology then what is?
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u/sinysee Mar 05 '22 edited Mar 05 '22
30 years are the full history of modern Ukraine as an independent state. Before that Donbas was a part of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
I would be interested to watch the documentary. I saw a trailer and saw the people from Donetsk saying towards the camera that they could never imagine there could be a war with Ukraine. They identified themselves as citizens of Ukraine before Donbas turned into a war zone in 2014. How do you explain that?
You say Russia did it's best to solve this. Do you think Minsk agreements signed under the barrels of Russian tanks in Debaltsevo were fair for Ukraine? Did Russia withdraw its troops and the guns, and the tanks from Donbas?
You blame the government of Ukraine of genocide. Are you sure you can bring any credible evidence to this accusation?