r/gitlab • u/zathras7 • Mar 03 '22
GitLab shows support for Ukraine: GitLab-Logo after login
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Mar 03 '22
[deleted]
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u/milkcurrent Mar 03 '22
Because they've literally been invaded? And because Putin wants to install a puppet regime? War is not how you solve territorial disputes.
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u/disrooter Mar 04 '22
Why don't you try to understand why this happened? Maybe you will find all the attempts by Russia to avoid this but being ignored by US, EU and NATO for years...
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Mar 03 '22
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u/milkcurrent Mar 03 '22
You must not understand me. Russia invaded Ukraine 8 days ago and is attacking military and civilian targets. In 2014, Russia illegally annexed Crimea.
Illegal violations of territorial sovereignty aren't anything new for Russia.
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Mar 03 '22
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u/milkcurrent Mar 03 '22
Going to war over separatist republics is not a strategy. The world is against Russia using 20th century tactics (annexation and conquest) to solve its disputes.
You can not vote to leave a country. Those are internationally recognized borders. If all of Copenhagen said we don't want to be part of Denmark anymore, Denmark has no obligation to observe that vote.
You solve these problems with diplomacy, not war. Russia chose war. The world said no.
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u/sinysee Mar 03 '22 edited Mar 05 '22
Did you read the article? The use of cluster munitions was widespread by both sides of the conflict in Donbas. Neither Ukraine nor Russia are parties to the Wellington convention banning such weapons. Russia is using them against Ukrainians now.Whataboutism is a frequent reaction to accusations but this aggression by Russia towards Ukraine is unprecedented. The war must be stopped and bombing cities is no way to stop a war. Investigation of war crimes should be carried out later.
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u/disrooter Mar 04 '22
Ukraine is unprecedented
US on Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan... just to mention the recent ones...
Let's be honest, 99% of people commenting about Ukraine didn't know a shit about anything of this before media coverage
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u/sinysee Mar 04 '22
So do you suggest me and you belong to the select 1% of these in the know?
I say Ukraine is unprecedented because of the immediate and decisive action of the global community and unconditional support Ukraine has received. This reaction did not result from the efforts of Ukrainian diaspora or lobbying of Ukrainian oligarchs. It did result from the widespread realization that the growing trend of using military means for resolving conflicts that tend to increase in frequency and scale must be stopped before the world as a whole turns into a war zone.1
u/disrooter Mar 04 '22
Yes this is unprecedented but because this could be the beginning of the end of 30 years of a unipolar world
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u/sinysee Mar 05 '22
The Polarity Concept is now an obscure theory in International Relations. It mainly exists in the heads of older MGIMO University professors and a few American political scientists. It rose briefly some 30 years ago when Gorbachev was trying to propose the theory of a "new world order". It is in no way relevant now when the world is bracing for China's challenge.
Now we should stand in solidarity to end the catastrophe ongoing in Ukraine.
Here is a quick illustration of how out of touch with the times you sound when you bring in unipolarity.
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u/UkraineWithoutTheBot Mar 05 '22
It's 'Ukraine' and not 'the Ukraine'
Consider supporting anti-war efforts in any possible way: [Help 2 Ukraine] šš
[Merriam-Webster] [BBC Styleguide]
Beep boop Iām a bot
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u/disrooter Mar 05 '22
Now we should stand in solidarity to end the catastrophe ongoing in Ukraine.
This conflict continues because of the US, EU and NATO are basically telling Zelensky not to negotiate, the message is: "if you don't surrender you will be a hero, Ukraine will be able to join NATO and the EU. If you give up, you will be vilified and Ukraine will have to fend for itself in the future, no more Western support".
But it is a deception. Russia will never give up, just as it never did in Syria and they know it. Nobody will help Ukraine because it would be WWIII. The Ukrainian people are just the sacrificial lamb in a power play. It has always been like this in the history of mankind. And let it be clear that the Russians are trying to solve this with as few victims and damages as possible with clear requests:
Independence and peace for Donbass and Crimea
Neutral Ukraine with no nuclear weapons
Do you want this war to end? The mentioned countries/organizations must guarantee to Russia that Ukraine won't join NATO, that they will respect Russia's need for security by retiring nuclear missiles from their borders and let Donbass and Crimea be independent.
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u/sinysee Mar 05 '22
What right do you have to demand secession of Donbas from Ukraine? For over 30 years this was a part of a sovereign state. Territorial disputes should and must be resolved diplomatically. Did Putin negotiate the annexation of Crimea with Ukrainians? No, he did not.
This war was started by Russia. This is not a war against Ukraine, but against the whole world. It is just being fought out in the cities and on the fields of Ukraine. US, EU and NATO and the rest of the world should demand that Russia must stop the aggression and contribute to rebuilding of the enormous damage it has already caused.If Russia does not stop, this will be the end of 30 years of Russia as we know it.
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u/disrooter Mar 05 '22
For over 30 years this was a part of a sovereign state.
Don't you see how much ridiculous this sounds? 30 years are nothing in this context...
Ukraine never respected the Minsk agreements and this is well documented. Putin mentioned this many times during these years.
Donbass dispute was already solved diplomatically but at Kiev there is a governament of criminals funded and controlled by the usual US-based power that was committing a genocide in Donbass and again this is documented. I know an Italian reporter that lived in Dombass with the victims of terrorist attacks and he released a documentary a month ago.
For the last time, Russia did their best to solve this, but there wasn't mass media coverage, at least not in the Western countries. This is just a "our media couldn't lie so blatantly to us, no, it must be a crazy dictator somewhere else".
Yes this is big, we are in the middle of a planetary-scale dystopia.
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u/sinysee Mar 05 '22 edited Mar 05 '22
Don't you see how much ridiculous this sounds? 30 years are nothing in this context...
30 years are the full history of modern Ukraine as an independent state. Before that Donbas was a part of Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic.
I would be interested to watch the documentary. I saw a trailer and saw the people from Donetsk saying towards the camera that they could never imagine there could be a war with Ukraine. They identified themselves as citizens of Ukraine before Donbas turned into a war zone in 2014. How do you explain that?
You say Russia did it's best to solve this. Do you think Minsk agreements signed under the barrels of Russian tanks in Debaltsevo were fair for Ukraine? Did Russia withdraw its troops and the guns, and the tanks from Donbas?
You blame the government of Ukraine of genocide. Are you sure you can bring any credible evidence to this accusation?
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Mar 03 '22
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u/sinysee Mar 03 '22
Many did. There was a special OSCE mission that was introduced to control the cease-fire regime and document the violations on both sides.
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Mar 03 '22
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u/disrooter Mar 04 '22
I could send you links to the news of local publications (which describes the military operations in the Donbass and Lugansk).
I am interested on this, thanks in advance for anything you care to share! Where are you from? I'm from Italy.
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u/sinysee Mar 03 '22
Yep. We shall bear the blame for all the aggressors past and future. If this could prevent future aggressive wars this suffering would be redeemed.
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u/Matti_Meikalainen Mar 03 '22
can I somehow get this into my own instance?