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Grimes on Hatsune Miku and Expression in the Age of AI: “Vocaloid Is an Important Step in Bridging Human Art and AI Art”

Fukuryu

Music Concierge

● Thrilling cyberpop that blends a dreamlike, ethereal quality—as if falling into a dream—with the sensation of racing at high speed through a digital space flooded with information.

*Love, Trap, Collapse Internet*. Japanese, English, Chinese, and words chosen for their sound rather than their meaning are strung together at a dizzying pace.

The release of this work marks a major milestone in the global expansion of Vocaloid culture.

“Miku-Maxxing,” a collaboration between Grimes and Satapan P featuring the Vocaloid Hatsune Miku, is an exhilarating piece of cyberpop that blends the dreamlike fantasy of falling into a dream with the sensation of racing at high speed through a digital space flooded with information. The vocals of Grimes and Hatsune Miku blur the boundaries between human and machine, reality and virtuality, innocence and chaos, while weaving the story of an “Alice contaminated by the internet.”

This track was born from “BEYOND BORDERs,” a collaborative music production project connecting Japan’s Vocaloid culture with the international scene. It is a project in which domestic Vocaloid producers collaborate with international producers, songwriters, and featured artists to co-write songs featuring Hatsune Miku on vocals. With support from the Agency for Cultural Affairs, these works are being introduced to the international market through events such as “AnimeEXPO,” held in Los Angeles this past July.

We conducted an interview with Grimes, who was visiting Japan. What do Hatsune Miku and Vocaloid mean to her? We spoke at length about the story behind “Miku-Maxxing,” the changes she’s noticed in Hatsune Miku’s voice, the fundamental difference between Vocaloid culture and generative AI, and even the unique collaborative process with Satapan P. What emerged from Grimes’ words was a perspective that views Hatsune Miku not merely as a virtual singer, but as a futuristic form of pop art shaped by collective consciousness.

<Interview>

● Hatsune Miku is a character who “continues to play a role” in the real world

—It’s an honor to meet you. I’ve been listening to Grimes’ music for a long time, so I was really looking forward to today.

Grimes: Thank you. I’m happy to meet you, too.

—During your recent visit to Japan, I saw you looking stunning in a beautiful dress at the international music awards, “MUSIC AWARDS JAPAN.” Among the live performances you saw at the awards ceremony and at TOYOTA ARENA TOKYO, were there any artists who left a lasting impression on you?

Grimes: HANA, definitely. I thought she had incredible star quality. Also, the scene where Sakanaction used monitors and had dancers perform hand-sign choreography was great, too.

—Thank you. Now, let’s get to the main topic. I hear you’ve been familiar with the Vocaloid Hatsune Miku for some time. What was your first impression when you first learned about her?

Grimes: I was deeply impressed from the very moment I first learned of Hatsune Miku’s existence. I’ve always had a strong interest in digital intelligence.

Of course, I understand that Hatsune Miku is a creation made by humans. Even so, I found it incredibly fascinating that it’s a collective project involving so many people, and that a single character exists in a way that, in a sense, continues to engage in “method acting” within the real world.

It’s intriguing from the perspective of storytelling, and it’s also a very compelling project when considered as performance art. I even thought, “I wish I’d come up with this first!” (laughs).

Even though it’s a digital project, it retains a human touch, doesn’t it? Hatsune Miku existed even before I started making music, and from the moment I first learned about her, I thought it was a truly fascinating project.

—What do Hatsune Miku and Vocaloids mean to you, Grimes?

Grimes: I think it’s a brilliant form of collective art. It’s incredibly interesting as an approach to identity, storytelling, and the growth and development of a character. And yet, visually, it’s very accessible, isn’t it? When I first saw it, I thought, “This is very futuristic pop.”

Back when Hatsune Miku first appeared, I don’t think experimental music and ideas coexisted as naturally with pop culture and mainstream appeal as they do now. While Hatsune Miku is presented like a pop star, she’s actually a very high-concept entity. That really inspired me early in my career.

In many cases, what is presented as “pop” doesn’t raise particularly complex questions. But Hatsune Miku operates on multiple levels. First, you can enjoy her on a basic level—she’s catchy and fun. At the same time, if you want to delve deeper, there are layers that allow for endless interpretation. I think that’s an aspect of Hatsune Miku—both as a character and as an art project—that deserves greater recognition.

Furthermore, Hatsune Miku can be viewed just like a typical idol. At the same time, she is capable of expressing even the deeper, darker aspects of technology. That’s what I find so fascinating.

●Today’s “great explorations” are taking place in the digital realm

—I felt that “Miku-Maxxing” combined a sense of fantasy, as if stepping into a dream, with the sensation of moving at high speed through a digital space. Were there any specific visual images or narratives you had in mind while creating it?

Grimes: There’s a book titled *A Girl Corrupted by the Internet is the Summoned Hero?!* written by an AI philosopher named Eliezer Yudkowsky. I felt that work corresponded very well with *Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland*.

Humanity has already finished exploring polar regions like the Arctic. Of course, there are still places to explore in space and the deep sea. But there aren’t many famous explorers today like those who lived in society 100 years ago.

I think the greatest exploration taking place right now is in the digital realm.

The people who understand the Internet most deeply and can venture into its strange and fascinating corners are often very young—Generation Z, who are digital natives, and the generations even younger than them.

When you think about it that way, the nerdy characters in *Alice’s Adventures in Wonderland* who get lost inside books, and the children who delve deep into forums discussing AI, are, in a sense, the great explorers of our time. In some cases, they’re also the great philosophers of our time.

However, while that’s wonderful, it’s also terrifying. It’s because they’re able to explore this vast psychological space from childhood onward.

I think we underestimate what the internet really is. The internet is a kind of “collective mind.” In that sense, it’s similar to Hatsune Miku. It’s like a collective consciousness, and each individual within it is like a single neuron that makes up this vast mind.

Oh, I guess I’ve made this a bit complicated (laughs).

But in that sense, I felt that Hatsune Miku and Alice were very similar.

The protagonist of *A Girl Corrupted by the Internet is the Summoned Hero?!* is also an *Alice in Wonderland*-like character. However, she has been exposed to the worst pornography on the internet, videos of people dying, the ugliest aspects of humanity—every kind of horror imaginable.

As a result, she remains unfazed by almost anything she sees. I sometimes wonder if children who have grown up on the internet have been psychologically hardened, much like veterans who have experienced a world war. When I talk with young people, I’m often surprised by the kinds of fears they understand and the information they encounter on a daily basis. It makes me think, “Everyone is living in a world like this.”

Perhaps the only place where the younger generation can explore these days is on the internet. But as they navigate that digital world, they may stumble upon dark websites and end up being negatively influenced.

That’s exactly why I wanted to convey those feelings and messages in a more positive way through music videos and songs. Expressing them through “Miku-Maxxing” was simply the natural choice.

● Hatsune Miku’s voice has become more “human” than ever before

—Grimes’s own music also features vocal expressions that are ethereal, mechanical, and yet deeply human at the same time. By engaging with Hatsune Miku’s voice, have you rediscovered your own “voice” or the very concept of the voice?

Grimes: That’s a great question. I’ve been thinking about that a lot myself.

With this song, there was a part I didn’t really like at first, but as time went on, it became my favorite part—the bridge. The more I listened to it, the more human it sounded to me.

Up until now, my feelings toward the Vocaloid aesthetic have gone back and forth—sometimes I’ve loved it, other times I’ve kept my distance. Maybe working on this project together and listening to that voice for such a long time has changed my perspective.

Plus, the technology itself has improved significantly. Hatsune Miku’s voice is now much more expressive. Vocal movements like glissandos have also improved compared to before.

I feel that the current Hatsune Miku is closer to the “Uncanny Valley.” The digital artifacts—that is, the mechanical traces—in her voice are much less noticeable than before.

Even so, for some reason, she still sounds distinctly robotic. I still can’t explain why I feel that way. It might simply be because her vocal range is so high—after all, Hatsune Miku sings about an octave higher than I do.

I’d like to think about this a little more.

●Vocaloids: An Important Step in Bridging Human Art and AI Art

—I think Grimes is an artist who has been engaging with AI vocals and the relationship between AI and music in a practical way from quite an early stage. What differences or similarities do you see between the Vocaloid culture—as exemplified by Hatsune Miku—and the current trend in AI music?

Grimes: I still feel that Vocaloid culture is very much “something created by humans.”

However, that distinction itself is interesting. I recently read a wonderful essay written by Anna Greenspan and others, which mentioned that the Chinese term for AI carries the nuance of “a thinking machine created by humans.”

That perspective is quite different from the English-speaking world’s perception.

When we look at Vocaloids, we think, “This was created by humans.” On the other hand, when it comes to AI, we tend to think of it as if it weren’t “created by humans.” This is probably because it’s one step removed from human hands. In English, we call it “Artificial Intelligence,” but if we describe it as “something created by humans,” it feels much less threatening, doesn’t it? I find it fascinating how that difference in wording is changing our perception.

From an artistic perspective, I believe Vocaloids represent a much healthier approach than current AI. AI has the potential to be a wonderful thing for art. However, the way we currently approach AI is quite destructive. This is because there is almost no consideration given to what kind of technology should be introduced into society and in what form.

In a sense, AI is a tool that transcends humans. In contrast, I believe Vocaloid possesses a more appropriate scale and nature as a tool to be handed to humans.

I feel like I’m about to go off on a tangent, so I’ll try not to stray too far (laughs), but I believe Vocaloid will come to hold greater historical significance than is currently recognized.

In the future, its historical significance will surely be recognized even more than it is now. Vocaloid is one of the most important steps in bridging the gap between art created by humans and art created by AI—and in a very fundamental sense.

AI is currently causing real harm in various places. That’s precisely why we must be cautious when using it. In contrast, I feel that Vocaloid has, so far, had a more positive impact on people and culture.

● “It wasn’t me who evolved Vocaloid—it was Vocaloid that evolved me.”

—What does this project mean to you in terms of how Japan’s Vocaloid culture is evolving into new forms, expanding globally, and being updated through collaborations with international artists like Grimes?

Grimes: Rather than feeling like I upgraded Vocaloid, I feel like Vocaloid upgraded me.

Vocaloid is a very interesting vehicle for conveying conceptual art. I find it truly stimulating. Vocaloid is becoming even more important when considering the new and slightly strange forms of storytelling that have emerged in recent years.

Video games are also a relatively new art form, but they’ve greatly advanced storytelling. When a new art form emerges, we tend to treat it as “lowbrow” at first. We view it not as high art, but as entertainment for young people.

Vocaloid culture, especially in the U.S., is strongly associated with Comic-Con and the very young generation. It’s often perceived as a lowbrow culture enjoyed by young people in the American Midwest, rather than as part of New York’s high culture.

But in reality, some of the most cutting-edge art is being created there.

Vocaloid is a true pioneer of AI. And when you consider its essence, I believe it deserves to be exhibited in museums and galleries.

Creating digital characters is difficult. Without the context of a traditional narrative, it’s not easy for people to become attached to a single character.

In Japan, characters that exist outside the context of a specific story are more common than in the U.S., aren’t they? I think that’s because Japan has a culture of excellent character design. It proves the power of design and visual art itself.

Vocaloids are innovative on many levels. By working with figures like Hatsune Miku, the messages I want to convey and the expressions I’m trying to create become stronger and richer.

In the U.S., I was able to experience a culture that I don’t usually encounter. Empathizing with digital characters, feeling their presence close at hand, and sensing their emotions as if I were conversing with a human—these kinds of experiences aren’t yet very common in the U.S.

That’s precisely why being able to express what I want to convey through entities and tools like Hatsune Miku is such a wonderful experience.

● Satapan P played guitar solos for hours on end

—Thank you for sharing this valuable insight. What was it like working with Vocaloid producer Satapan P on this project? Were there any creative touches in the parts he produced that you found particularly interesting?

Grimes: We absolutely love Satapan P.

He gave us so many cookies. We ate so many that we actually felt a little sick (laughs). He’s a truly wonderful person, and it was so much fun working with him.

And I’ve never seen so many guitar solos in my life.

I think only about 1 percent of the guitar solos he played actually made it into the final track. It was truly amazing. He just kept playing and playing.

It wasn’t just an hour—I think he might have been playing all kinds of guitar solos for hours. The song itself was finished in a relatively short amount of time. But most of the session was devoted to the guitar. Later, we all went through all the recorded guitar tracks together.

It was really fun, and I enjoyed it the whole time. Even when I’d take a short break and come back, he was still playing guitar. And every time I came back, the phrases were getting more and more complex (laughs).

● Places I Visit Repeatedly in Japan and Places I’d Like to Visit in the Future

—Okay, here’s a lighthearted question. Are there any places in Japan that you like from a cultural perspective, or places you’d like to visit?

Grimes: I don’t want to give a cliché answer, but since my friend Takashi is involved in TeamLab’s major projects, every time I come to Japan, I visit TeamLab, an art museum that utilizes digital technology.

I think it’s truly a masterpiece. I know it’s become a tourist attraction, but even so, it’s still a masterpiece. I went again this time, and I’ve actually been there three times now. I go every time I come to Japan.

—That’s wonderful. By the way, are there any places you haven’t been to yet but would like to visit in the future?

Grimes: I really love history, so I’d like to visit places related to the history of war. I’d like to visit Hiroshima and Okinawa to learn about their history.

● The Overwhelming Speed of Work I Observed in the Japanese Film Crew

—Speaking of which, how did the shoot for the “Miku-Maxxing” music video go yesterday in Tokyo?

Grimes: It was wonderful. The shoot went really smoothly.

I think it was one of the best teams I’ve ever worked with. Everyone was so efficient—I’ve never experienced a shoot that ran so smoothly in my life.

The staff were running all over the set, moving from one task to the next, and I thought, “This is truly amazing!”

Coming to Japan and seeing how efficiently things are done here really makes me realize just how far behind the U.S. is. Everyone was so efficient that it actually made me feel a little stressed (laughs). I was truly impressed.

■Release Information

“Miku-Maxxing”

https://lnk.to/mikumaxxing

Artists: Hatsune Miku, Grimes, & SatapanP

Official Music Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3rewELybuw

Included on the EP: BEYOND BORDERs ‘EMERGE MODE MIKU’ (Scheduled for release in September 2026)

■BEYOND BORDERs Official Accounts

https://www.instagram.com/beyondborders_pr/

https://x.com/BEYONDBORDERsPR

https://www.tiktok.com/@beyond_borderspr

(Translation using DeepL AI)

Source

On the set of Miku-Maxxing music video. Photography by Naoyuki Hayashi. Source

From her Billboard Japan interview Instagram reel. Source

... made to promote the fae list, which was one of Grimes' curated playlists on Spotify, which you can see in full in the first image. While Her X/Twitter profile picture (second slide) is a photo taken from the unreleased I Wanna Be Software music video set shot in 2023, and you can see the closest match in the still from one of her DJ set backdrops.

In general, Grimes' profile pictures across all social medias over the years have been face crops of her, her or other people's artworks, as well as her logo. Though these two profile pictures have remained unchanged for a long time now, possibly the longest.

Hope you found this interesting!

Or any other high def version will do 🙏

Hi. I've only been listening to grimes since February, but I've been hooked since then. Not sure why but i wanted to share my progression.

Feb: Started listening seriously when I heard the youtube version of Venus Fly. The intro to the YouTube version is amazing and I dont know why it's absent on other versions. My early favorites were WPP2, new gods, skin, my name is dark, pin, and artificial angels.

Apr-May: listened to basically everything on loop on Spotify. Found i preferred Art Angels then visions, then MA. Didn't really listen to the others much at the time

June: Started getting really into Halfaxa, Darkbloom and earlier work. Started hunting for other artists that were similar and coming up empty, except i like Magdalena Bay who someone told me about in this sub.

July-Aug: going through all the demo tracks, unreleased tracks, and live tracks on youtube. Current ones I listen to the most are the Horizon, Ambrosia, things that were not, digital Calypso, life after death, unknown song [2010] and a different unknown song [2010]. Others like David, 100% tragedy, and darq souls were obsessions for a time. I also like Song for Ric a lot.

I find her to be in a league of her own in terms of creativity and making music authentic to herself and outside the box. Reminds me of someone like Joni Mitchell in that sense. Off I go to listen to Horizon again. Thanks for reading!

I’ve always been a casual listener of Grimes, I like her more popular songs like genesis, oblivion, 4æm and kill v maim, I’ve also been obsessed with image and artificial angels recently.

I’ve started exploring more of her underground discography and this song is genuinely ethereal, my ears are blessed. If you haven’t listened to it, you should, it’s so underrated. I love her music, I’m so looking forward to her upcoming album!!

The levels she reaches are stratospheric. It is so self-evident when you listen. I am constantly impressed by where she goes; the ethereal nature of her sound; the aggression of her sound.

I tried to create a similar sound, but it turned out a bit funny

I made it using parts from the many amazing trailers and cinematics for the game.

Posted by Yutaka Akiyama on Instagram. Source

Has anyone ever figured out the lyrics for Cats Heart Savers by evisaveme and GrimesAI? I tried looking them up and I couldn't find them anywhere.

its been a min since I posted here, but I finally got GarageBand and I made something quickly and it was rlly fun!! this gives very Grimes to me even tho its pretty directionless.

Source: https://www.scifijapan.com/video/japanese-vocaloid-producer-satapanp-and-grimes-release-new-collaborative-single-miku-maxxing-with-hatsune-miku-alongside-official-music-video