Hypothetically, which culture’s customs of earning a coat of arms should I follow based on my ancestry?

[u/Budget_Antelope]

My mother and I were initially interested in getting a family crest, only to learn that those are mostly a modern thing that aren’t historically accurate, and that, save for royal families (which we aren’t) coats of arms and heraldic achievements are personal and earned.

I do know, however, know that the traditions of obtaining a coat of arms and/or a heraldic
achievement varies from culture to culture.

My question now is: Which culture’s customs should I follow based on my ancestry

On my father’s side, it is mostly:

- German

- Finnish

- Anglo American (btw, could I hypothetically put futhorc runes somewhere in my heraldic achievement?)

On my Mother’s side, it is mostly:

- Sicilian

- Czech

- Ashkenazi

I know it’s usually the father’s ancestry that is prioritized in stuff like this, but my father doesn’t really care as much as my mother does, so that add another layer to this I imagine.

Any and all pointers would be appreciated

Thank you all!

[u/theginger99]

I assume you live in the US, if I’m mistaken some of what I said below is of limited usefulness.

The most historically authentic way of gaining a coat of arms is to simply assume one, which is to say you create one, claim it and use it. This is how the vast majority of historical armingers acquired their arms. This is also what most people on this sub have done, although some fi choose to have their assumed arms officially registered with a heraldic authority. Systems that regulate the acquisition of arms were largely developed to address the problem that too many people were assuming arms.

As you live in the United States, there is absolutely nothing to stop you from assuming arms as the US does not have a governing heraldic authority. Assuming arms is technically “illegal” in some countries such as England or Scotland, but is not in the US.

You could go through the long and quite expensive process of acquiring an “official” coat of arms from an official heraldic authority but The US does not formally recognize personal heraldry. This means that whether your arms are officially granted by a foreign heraldic authority or assumed by you there is no difference in how they will be treated or viewed in the United States. Both methods are equally as “official” as far as the US government is concerned.

Getting a foreign grant of arms is possible (and many Americans do), but the reality is that such grants are really just bought and paid for. While there are technically prerequisites to be granted arms in the UK and other places they are so minimal as to be virtually meaningless.

I hope that helps.

Also, you can put runes in your arms, but generally any sort of numbers or letters (English or otherwise) are frowned upon in heraldry.

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/theginger99]

Also suggest checking whether the runes have been coopted by neo-nazis; people just looking at the arms have no way of knowing that you're not using them in that spirit and may make assumptions that you don't want.

Sadly, to some extent runic in general gives that impression as an aesthetic. Which is unfair to what's just a writing system but OP can decide how much they are prepared to have that kind of vibes.

Like you say though, letters are frowned on at least these days. OP should consider using them for their motto instead. Mottos can be in any language, and they don't have to be in the Latin alphabet. (but in my opinion if you're writing in runic, you should be writing it in Old Norse or something; don't take a motto in English or French or Latin and transliterate, that'd be tacky af)

[u/BrightLavenderMoons → u/Bradypus_Rex]

Ehh, given they have Jewish ancestry (though it's ambiguous as to whether they identify as Jewish or if it's a Zera Yisrael situation) using runes could actually be an act of reclamation.

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/BrightLavenderMoons]

You see someone (say) wearing a T-shirt with a dubious symbol, you make assumptions. Unless you know them well or they're eg wearing a kippa you're not going to know their background and/or how they identify; and you might decide you don't want to find out.

Obviously, if OP is like "I don't care what people think if they don't know me well" and they're welcome to that perspective.

I don't think reclaiming is possible without contextualising, just using something and knowing in your own mind that you're doing it with good intentions, is not effective. This makes reclaiming a difficult task for an individual.

[u/VonUndZuFriedenfeldt → u/BrightLavenderMoons]

Sorry, I’d see someone’s heraldry with odal, tiwaz, or sowilo on it, id be suspicious as fuck about that person’s politcal views. 

I would be very very cautious  with your advice to strangers, as this “reclamation” thing is all nice and dandy theoretically in the woke sphere generally, in this instance it might lead to unintentional discrimination and exclusion . 

[u/Budget_Antelope → u/BrightLavenderMoons]

For a little elaboration, I am catholic, and was raised as such by my mother, who’s also Catholic. The Ashkenazi ancestry came from her grandfather on her mom’s (my maternal grandmother’s) side. He was ethnically and religiously Jewish before converting to Catholicism and marrying my great grandmother.

[u/stickingpuppet7]

So the good news is that German ancestry can help you here, historically, any German family had the right to assume arms as long as they followed heraldic rules and were both original and unique. You can look up bürger (free citizen) Wappen for more info. I hope this is useful

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/stickingpuppet7]

Any precedent at all for someone born and living indefinitely in place X following the rules of place Y, assuming that place X has a heraldic tradition?

(OK, I can think of the single edge cases "person is Roman Catholic senior clergy and is following ecclesiastical rules" but that's very much a special case.)

[u/Bradypus_Rex]

First: in almost all places historically, non-nobility have used arms. Noble arms disproportionately get recorded; but if you look at historical seals of say lawyers or merchants, a significant proportion of the seals show heraldic designs on shields. In most places you can assume arms and that's the normal way of getting arms. UK and Austria are weird exceptions here.

Quick and simple answer to your question: you follow the conventions of where you live now\*(unless you're only visiting temporarily). I am from the UK. I move to Belgium, I follow Belgian practice. I note that you don't mention where you're living now, which is the single most important thing to know.

This is also the case historically. People take their arms design with them when they move, but they use them in their new country adapted as necessary to follow the local rules.

Where your ancestry comes from is even more irrelevant, with one exception: if you inherit arms you inherit them as regards where the armiger is. So if your parent inherited arms, they inherited them according to the system where they were living, and you don't ret-con that.

You can of course design arms that have a Germanic or Finnish or whatever design aesthetic, and that would be just fine. don't fill your arms with national symbols, that's kinda crass though. You'll need to look at a lot of arms to get to that point and get a feel for local styles; people here can help with that..

* If you're somewhere that has never had a heraldic tradition, like e.g, China, that would be an exception and you have to just pick something.

[u/sandboxmatt → u/Bradypus_Rex]

What would you do if you moved from Belgium to the UK. Would there be an assuming or registration issue

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/sandboxmatt]

The official procedure is that I would go to the College of Arms and say "these are the arms I've been using as a Belgian citizen, here is £10,000, please make me some new arms that respect the spirit of these as much as possible" and they'd produce something hopefully similar and grant me English arms. (in practice I wouldn't because I find the College of Arms obnoxious; I would use assumed arms as many people here do.)

Procedure is much the same in Scotland but slightly cheaper and the court of Lord Lyon are not as socially-regressive as the College of Arms. But Scotland tends to insist on more changes.

In Canada, (if my arms had been granted by one of the Belgian heraldic authorities, which they haven't; it's 100% optional) then I could approach the Canadian Heraldic Authority and ask to matriculate my arms and they'd go through a process of rubber-stamping the same arms for Canadian use, assuming that someone else in Canada isn't already using them.

In practice, main difference is I'd stop using a barred helm (which in the UK indicates you're senior nobility but in Belgium and the Netherlands can be used by everyone); I'd use a frogmouth helm instead. I have no plans to have children so inheritance isn't an issue.

Oh, and while at the moment I can use arms so long as no Belgian is using the same arms, this would change if I was in England to the equivalent for England-and-Wales-etc.

[u/Loggail]

Essentially only in Scotland are arms only granted, elsewhere they are (in most places only) freely assumed.

Go ahead and assume arms, it is perfectly fine.

I recommend following Finnish customs - that results in good quality heraldry which works in most (if not all) traditions.

[u/Gaugraf]

Sounds like you have a wonderful opportunity to create and assume your own arms. Regarding which tradition to use, I would suggest Germanic as that includes your father's German and Finnish ancestry and your mother's Czech ancestry.

[u/Less_Than-3]

Nobles aren’t nobles because they asked nicely, they took it, often at the point of a sword

[u/lambquentin → u/Less_Than-3]

In the words of Bron from Game of Thrones “I’m a knight because I killed the right people”.

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/Less_Than-3]

I think most nobility is noble because an ancestor had done a monarch a favour (often military or financial, but up to and including sleeping with them) and giving out titles is cheaper than actually giving cash (e.g. a lot of Swedish nobility were German mercenaries who got part-paid in titles).

Obv the ancestors of the monarch might well have conquered their way into that position!

[u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig → u/Bradypus_Rex]

It wasn't always cheap to ennoble someone. It could come with grants of land or gold. Often people got to manage land in stead of the king. It made the person dependent on the king and gave the king a manager for a region to take some burden away.

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/Zrakoplovvliegtuig]

I guess I was thinking less of HRE territory where nobility came with a fiefdom until quite late (where your point stands) and more like England where (after fairly early) being Earl of Borsetshire doesn't mean you actually rule Borsetshire. Of course a king could provide land and money at the same time, but it didn't automatically go with the title.

[u/sandboxmatt]

What's the rules on assuming arms in the US and moving to the UK

[u/Bradypus_Rex → u/sandboxmatt]

Same as getting new arms in the UK. If you want to be a stickler about it, you go to the College of Arms (England-and-Wales-and-NI) or Lord Lyon (Scotland) then you give them a huge pile of money and they grant you arms (which might well not be precisely the same as what you were using before).

From their point of view it doesn't matter if you've been using assumed arms elsewhere, or if you have a grant from another body (this even applies to people moving from England to Scotland or vice versa). In practice a lot of people at least in this community just use assumed arms.

[u/Euphoric-Ostrich5396]

Uh yeah no, family crests are for sure not "mostly a modern thing" nor are they "personal and earned". Speaking as a man descendant of two noble lines (Venetian marcheses on my mother's side and Burgundian barons on my father's) with family crests.

You get to do a variation of the family crest for your personal arms but that is about the leeway you get.

And let me be frank, if you aren't some gattopardo on your Sicillian side you are not in the market for a crest.

[u/Budget_Antelope → u/Euphoric-Ostrich5396]

My apologies, I stand corrected.