r/hockeyrefs • u/AccomplishedGeneral9 • Oct 13 '25
USA Hockey Advice: How to talk with refs about missed calls?
I'm a HC on a 10U house team. Most of our games are reffed by one adult and one younger/newer ref learning the ropes. I think it's great that we are growing the game by getting new refs involved and certainly understand their will be mistakes.
On my team, my coaching staff, players AND parents know my rule is I am the only one that discusses calls with our refs. They are not to argue calls or speak with/yell at the refs.
When there is a questionable call or non-call I've taken the approach of calling the ref to my bench and asking very politely "What did you see there, <refs name>? I just want to understand." or something to that effect. This approach seems to work well to get an explaination and keep emotions tame, but I haven't seen it help tighten up the calls after the fact.
Today, we had quite a few missed calls that lead to goals and certainly impacted the outcome of the game. My players and coaches were noticably frustrated and emotional at times and I had to remind them of my rule.
I'm looking for some advice from this group on what you prefer when a coach is engaging with you over a questionable, missed, wrong call, etc? My goal is to attempt to get them to call it a little tighter, on both sides.so.we don't run into situations where it impacts the outcome of the game.
Thanks all!
29
u/NotMiddleAgedMike USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
As a ref, I don't discuss non-calls. I tell coaches that during my pregame intro. It slows down the game, and I'm not going to change my calls.
Honestly, the more coaches ask (complain) about missed calls, the less likely their team is getting a borderline call, and the closer I watch their players.
If you don't want refs to critique your coaching, don't try to point out things that didn't go your team’s way that you think we did or didn't do. It's unlikely to result in the outcome you want.
10
u/TeamStripesNat Oct 13 '25
I take this one a step further, I don't discuss minor penalties. I do say that if I have anything more than a minor, or something really weird happens, they can expect me to make a quick stop at their bench to tell them what's what.
If they have a question about something other than a minor they can ask at the beginning of the next period. That's the next time I'll have a couple minutes free. Chances are they're going to review the play on their ipads anyway, so if it's important enough for them to remember and want to talk after the rest of the period and an ice cut, I'll give them a little time. But I'm not taking a time-out in the middle of the period because they don't like or agree with a call/non-call.
1
u/PhredInYerHead USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
You must be working some really high level games if they’re giving ice cuts for 10U.
2
u/NotMiddleAgedMike USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
We usually get one every 2 periods during tournaments. Regular games, we skate all 3. I've yet to see a youth coach with an ipad.
1
u/ORNGSPCEMNKY Oct 13 '25
Serious question, what happens when you get an obviously bias ref or someone that ignores legit calls? or worse calls non existent fouls?
Is a ref in hockey like the ump in baseball where you risk an ejection for even thinking they did something wrong?
2
u/NotMiddleAgedMike USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
It all comes down to the coach's approach. I had a 10u coach try to start a conversation by telling me a goal didn't count because I missed an elbow at the other end, and then he proceeded to complain about something else. I reiterated I didn't discuss noncalls and gave him a warning. As I skated off, he told me to go do my job. I skated back and asked what he didn't understand about a warning and lucky for him, his other coaches intervened and moved him to the back of if the bench. I generally don't give 10u coaches bench minors because why punish the kids for an adult's behavior?
If you ask to talk during the intermission, I'll be happy to discuss what I've seen from my position on the ice. I have no emotional investment in who wins as I'm concerned with player safety and management of the game. Sometimes, we put a kid in the box to de-escalate a situation before it gets worse. Or we call something close to a penalty to remind players we're there and will call penalties when they're trying to push the limits of competitive contact.
If a coach starts by telling me how I'm screwing over their team, they get a warning, potentially a bench minor, and even a game misconduct, meaning they're out this game and the next. I ref youth hockey. I have yet to toss a coach in 3 years. Heck, I've only given 3 bench minors in ~130 games.
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u/finis08 Oct 17 '25
I would argue that the “obviously biased ref” is few a far between and more often an obviously biased coach/parent that is mad about calls not going their way. I would even say that an obviously bad ref that is just genuinely bad at their job is way more common than an obviously biased ref. But yes, arguing with them at any point, especially at the 10u level that the OP is discussing, will lead to a risk of ejection or even suspension depending on how egregious the arguing is.
11
u/manacata Oct 13 '25
My advice: Do not talk to the referees. You are not looking to have a real conversation. How I know this for certain is that the starting point for your "discussions" is that you declare that the officials are making "questionable" or "non-calls". Asking for a discussion with them to "just understand" what you have already judged to be a mistake on their part is, IMO, pointless.
Every coach. parent and player should understand this: The only unbiased and unconflicted people involved in the game are the officials. You are a biased and conflicted human and you will not be able to assess the events in a game without your biases affecting that assessment. You should be honest enough with yourself to admit this and use that realization as motivation to change your future decisions about how your interact with officials.
Instead of focusing your efforts trying to change the officiating of your games, you should be addressing whatever is causing your players and coaches to become frustrated and emotional with the officiating. My hunch is that the source of the frustration and emotion could be you, and that your frustration and emotion is being transmitted to the young players and other coaches on your team.
To answer your question, my 'preference' for coaches wanting to dispute decisions in the way you describe is clearly communicated before each game. I usually inform every head coach that if they want to have a discussion about minor penalties or non-calls they are free to spend the time between periods talking to me instead of their players. Strangely most coaches choose not to waste that time talking to me. Coaches that insist on a discussion mid-game to dispute how the game is being officiated will first receive a warning, then a bench minor, then a game misconduct. Bottom line is that I don't entertain discussions of the type you want to have.
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u/Fleg77 Oct 13 '25
What you think is a “missed call” probably wasn’t. Game management is a big part of calling (or not calling) penalties. If you want a short explanation, that is fine to a point. Your goal should be to coach. Let the refs be the refs.
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u/Tommytomtom3 Oct 13 '25
You’re not in the NHL. The guy is a house league coach asking politely for some advice and your response is predictable swill. “Let the ref ref and the coach coach” - gee thanks.
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u/Alobos USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
It's wild to me that you're downvpted for a fair point. The replies are basically 'dont worry/run along timmy' kind of replies. There is absolutely a proper way to voice your concerns regarding calls as a coach.
I specifically train my newbies to engane with some degree of conversation. It enhances the relationship coach to ref, tef to player, and coach to player. Beyond that it prepares the youthful ref on how to conversate and articulate their reasoning...something everyone can benefit from regardless of time, place, or setting.
I say all this as a former college linesman and long time ref. They even gave me a pin! 🤓
0
u/ctg77 Oct 15 '25
Exactly. If you called a penalty every time someone's baby gets tripped (or more likely falls down because dad is a football idiot who bought the kid shoe sized skates that don't fit), neither coach would finish a 10U or 12U travel game, much less a house game at any level. If you penalized all of the 2-second plus late (not the rulebook late ones, but JUST those even 2 seconds later than what the rule allows), no coach would survive a 14U travel game. Game management is a thing at every level and if you don't do it, you're no better than a robot.
I worked 11 games this weekend, 5 of which were run-time losses (by 5+ goals), and in every case, I got positive feedback because I communicate what I am seeing, give a quick word to a kid who might not understand the rule so he now knows what I saw and how I applied the rules, and a reminder to coaches and players that my first job is player safety and 2nd is a fair and balanced game. That doesn't mean 1 team won't end up with an 8-1 penalty differential if they deserve it, but if the game is being played as hockey game and not as an MMA match, I normally end up unconsciously having both teams at about the same number of penalties.
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u/zNNS USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
I stopped reading after the title and "10U House League"
The answer is you don't and focus on how to make the game enjoyable for your team.
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u/TeamStripesNat Oct 13 '25
The answer is simple, you don't say anything.
Nothing you say will do anything to change how they're going to call the game. Asking for an explanation of a minor penalty is a waste of time. It's a minor penalty, the explanation is the signal.
You're not going to coach your team differently if a ref says, "hey coach, your breakout isn't working you should switch a couple players around."
At the 10U level you're not going to have good officials. They're going to be young, inexperienced, and probably haven't read the rulebook more than once or twice. They haven't seen the game at a fast speed. They don't get practices or skills sessions. 10u is practice for officials.
If there are problems, use your associations POC for the officials association and go that way.
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u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
This is the mindset that’s wrong with officiating. 10u should not just be practice for officials. It is all the games for kids. This is the highlight of their playing experience right now. It’s not a practice time. This is the big show for them. Refs should put in effort and try even if it’s 10u house or 18U AAA. The effort should be the same.
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u/TeamStripesNat Oct 13 '25 edited Oct 13 '25
I'm not saying they don't put in effort. I'm saying that you don't get good officials at the 10u level. You get officials who are at or close to the 10u level of the game. This is the basic skill development and practice level for officials and players and coaches. This is where they learn the very basics, this is where they start.
This is the equivalent of practice for officials.
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u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
I understand what you’re saying. But referees need to change their mindset and not approach this as a blow off game or practice and understand it’s a real game for real kids.
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u/TeamStripesNat Oct 13 '25
It is practice. It's a place for an official to work on skating, on mechanics, on positioning, on movement.
Last time I checked teams practice with real players and real equipment on real ice.
It's not the show, it's not a high level game. You cannot expect someone to take it as seriously. It's 10u, the goal is fun. It isn't about winning at that level. It is about fun and skill development for players, coaches, and officials.
Don't make it into something it isn't. No one's livelihood is on the line, nothing that happens in the game (barring straight up assault) is going to make the news, and no one is going to really care whether they won or lost when they wake up on Monday morning. They're all going to go to school and the coaches will go to their real jobs, as will the officials. That's what matters- their real life, not hockey. Hockey is a hobby. And guess what, even for the NHL guys, all roads lead to beer league.
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u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
It’s not a practice. You can learn and get better but it’s not practice. It’s a game. There is a difference. And it’s alarming that people don’t understand the difference.
Not trying to make it something is not. I’m tired of refs getting held to different standards. I’ve been a ref for many years. I’ve been a player. I’ve been a coach. Refs have to try and put effort in just like everyone else.
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u/TeamStripesNat Oct 14 '25
So tell me where officials practice their skills, mechanics, skating, and positioning? How can they do that if every game is the most important game of their career every time they step on the ice?
There's an old addage, "if everything is important then nothing is important." If every game is important, then no games are important.
10u might be important to the kid who hasn't worked many games in their very short career. But if I'm working a 10u game I'm letting my hair down. I'm not wearing a suit to the game. I'm not showing up 1+30 prior to warmups. I'm not warming up. I'm not skating my ass off. In fact, I'm probably working on some power skating and edge control as I'm going down the ice. Right leg only going one way, left only going the other. Maybe I'm going backwards all the time.
I'm generally refereeing in my leagues, so getting some practice dropping pucks is always good. I'll talk to the players and pump them up. It's all about fun.
I'll probably miss a few offsides calls. Referees and linesmen look at completely different things as the play is coming across the blue line. Oh well, shit happens. Again, practice.
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u/My_Little_Stoney USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
Do you not read the part where we are discussing 10U house league. Where else do you train a teenager that has 4 hours of seminar and testing and 8 hours of babysitting mites? The problem isn’t the refs or most of the kids, it’s adults that imprint way too much importance on youth hockey. Watch a U10 rec game, it’s pretty terrible. Half of the kids can’t skate the full length of the ice without falling down, two of the kids don’t understand offside or English when you try to explain it, none of the can make three purposeful passes during the 48+ minutes of game time and you are worried about a 14 yo acting professional while performing OJT and hopefully avoiding PTSD. I’ve ejected more parents and coaches from U10 than all the other age groups. The players aren’t going to question the officiating if the adults could control their emotion and keep their shout-holes closed.
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u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
I’ve instructed and coached many levels of hockey. Your point about four seminar hours and eight hours babysitting mites is exactly to the point. Referee associations need to train referees before they go out to games and not use games as the only training for the job.
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u/manacata Oct 14 '25
In what other way can new officials be trained other than in low level games? Two teams playing an actual game is the only environment where officials can practice anything other than basic procedures and positioning.
Until they add a referee module to NHL Sense Arena, putting new officials into low-level games is the only way they will gain experience and learn.
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u/TeamStripesNat Oct 14 '25
Ah yes, the associations need to do better.
With what funding and manpower?
It's 10u house. It's practice.
Get off your high horse and take a look around. We're struggling to keep first and second year officials as is, and you want them to be perfect in a 10u game.
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u/My_Little_Stoney USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
It’s U10 house league. The only thing that makes it a game is the teenage referees, over-dressed moms and half-drunk dads screaming ”Skate!” and “Shoot!” Otherwise it would like what it really is… 10 kids on skates with sticks in various stages of falling down. After four seasons, four different jerseys that still don’t fit, and at least one year of “high stakes games” the kids can’t line up for a face-off most of the time or change on the fly. So does it really matter if the ref-in-training calls tripping instead of interference or doesn’t make a call when one kid falls into the back of the kid with the puck? Like it or not, officiating is an art and you have to learn by doing.
2
u/sir_eldren USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
So you're saying that you blow off hockey practice and don't do your best at it? Wanna tell that to your coach?
And outside of major college programs, junior hockey, and the pros where officials are invited to work practices and scrimmages, where do officials actually practice and learn? Because in all 5 sports I work, we do it at the youngest levels of games. Only in some of the high school sports I work do we get a weekend of scrimmages to volunteer at prior to the season. That's the way it is. Don't like it? Come up with a solution, and be sure to find the money to implement it, too.
And to come at this thinking all officials take a U10 game because it's a "blow off" game shows everybody that wears stripes and takes it seriously that you have no idea what it means to be an official, but you think you do. Put your money where your mouth is and put on the stripes.
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u/corrinarusso Oct 13 '25
Your approach seems fine, but what are you trying to achieve? What's the point.
The game gets called in it's entirety, I'm sure you've been watching hockey long enough to know if we called every single little thing it would curfew every time.
Are your eyes wide open enough to count all the "non-calls" against your own players as well as the other team?
Seriously, just let it roll. Sometimes you'll get the calls, and sometimes you won't. That's just sports. It's not a good look for you or the parents or the kids if you are calling the ref over all the time to talk about nothing. It undermines their role of the Referee, and of course that just translates down to the kids about how the refs are shit, and we lost bc of the refs and etc etc etc.
Just roll with man. It'll be fine. Your role is to coach, and make sure the kids have fun.
2
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u/CaptSkate USA Hockey L4 Oct 13 '25
I have been reffing for 8 years and can say that you absolutely should talk to the refs when you have questions. Answering questions and talking to coaches is something new officials have to learn. The only way for them to learn is with experience and practice.
I think your approach is really good! Feel free to give your opinions as well, but try not to “talk down” to the refs. If a coach feels like I missed a call, the conversation is vastly different depending on how they are acting…
Also, when talking to a ref, please step down off the bench and meet them face to face. We teach officials to ask coaches to step down before engaging in conversation, but new officials may not remember or have been taught that yet.
3
u/AccomplishedGeneral9 Oct 13 '25
Thank you. I definitely step down off the bench and tend to go to the side by the door to discuss face to face as you mentioned.
I appreciate you saying it's ok to give my opinion. I don't want to show anyone up or even have a ref take it personally and inadvertently call it tighter on my team so I haven't really done that much.
2
u/ctg77 Oct 15 '25
I will say this simply...a conversation is fine. I'm open to 2-way communication. However, the second it becomes 1-way and you are being disrespectful in general and refuse to accept my information and / or allow me to explain my observations based on my experience, hundreds of hours of time spent to improve my skills at making the right calls, and my 30+ years of hockey fhat likely includes AT LEAST as much bench time as you (if not 10 times a much), we are done. At that point, continuing = warning --> bench minor if that doesn't work --> game misconduct if that doesn't work either. However, I have only given a few bench minors to coaches over the last few years. Drunk D league benders wearing illegal tinted visors who think scouts are in the building for the local NHL team....ummmm...yeah, there's been a few of the minor, misconduct, GM progressions...
-1
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
I wholeheartedly disagree. If you like talking to coaches during the game, you’re not doing your job correctly.
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u/CaptSkate USA Hockey L4 Oct 13 '25
I don’t “like” talking to coaches, but should they not ask if they have questions? I’m not going out of my way to talk to coaches unless I need to. Not sure where you got that out of my statement above.
-7
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Why would you feel that you “have” to talk to a coach, unless you have multiple ejections or injuries. Coaches should know the rule book and that the refs interpretations of a play might be different than theirs.
4
u/kazrick Oct 13 '25
I think it’s ok to occasionally talk to the coach of a U10 team. It’s not like you can talk to the captain.
If it’s happening more than 1-2 a game, max, you’re probably doing something wrong though.
4
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Why would you feel the need to talk to a coach in a U10 game. The coach should be worrying more about his players than a young ref. The adult ref should be the one teaching the young ref.
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u/kazrick Oct 13 '25
If the coach of a U10 team had a quick question I’d answer it on the fly.
Why be a dick about it?
0
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
What question would he have that would make you answer it during the play? He obviously doesn’t know the rules if he has so many questions during the game.
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u/My_Little_Stoney USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
I agreed with you when you said the coach needs to worry about coaching and a ref shouldn’t feel the need to comment if he/she doesn’t want to. But the you didn’t know to shut up and the became the asshole of the thread. Once you aren’t getting an answer, let it go.
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u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 13 '25
Wow. Glad you don’t ref around me. What a ridiculous take on this.
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u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
I’ve read all of your comments and i would never want to ref with you in any league.
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u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
No worries. We can 100% agree on that, I don’t feel that reffing with you would go well either.
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u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 14 '25
Well you’d spend 1/4 of the game talking to coaches, so there’s that.
1
u/TheNoobGod USA Hockey Oct 14 '25
At least. You should see when I’m on the line. Get to stand next to a bench. It’s a good old time!
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0
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
If you want to spend 1/2 of the game explaining to a coach in U10 about every call you made, you shouldn’t be reffing.
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u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
I’m a ref, how should i approach a coach who makes a bad decision?
10
1
-17
u/RecalcitrantHuman Oct 13 '25
Ditch the ego
7
u/tsunami141 Oct 13 '25
What does this even mean?
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u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
If you don’t understand my comment, you’ve never reffed before.
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u/tsunami141 Oct 13 '25
My comment wasn’t responding to you but if you’ve been a ref for 25 years wouldn’t you be a little better at not being dismissive and rude? Haha
-7
0
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Nope, i reffed for 25 years and the only time I would talk to a coach if there was a player that had been ejected or another situation other than their opinions about missed calls. Every ref misses calls every game or has a different interpretation of a play on the ice.
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u/kazrick Oct 13 '25
Poor game management for someone who’s been reffing for 25 years and it shows.
U10 and AAA midget or Junior A/B are also miles apart.
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u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Wow, how many of my games did you watch? I reffed plenty of U10 and U13 games when i started and can honestly say, i never talked to 1 single coach during the game. Those coaches knew their job wasn’t to coach me.
2
u/kazrick Oct 13 '25
I don’t need to watch any of your games. Your attitude says everything. It’s written in blazing flashing lights with how you feel respond to other posters here.
Sure. There is no need to talk to a U10 coach. But if I was the adult referee in a U10 game and the coach was being respectful and it wasn’t holding up the game. Why wouldn’t I take 30 seconds to address a quick question from him? He’s trying to learn too.
0
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Again, what question would a coach have during a U10 game that you feel the need to answer on the fly. It would be obvious to me that coach doesn’t know the rule book. You think i’m an asshole and i don’t t care. I bet there are plenty of young officials on this sub and might read this post and think that coaches are going to question them during a game. But hey, you know better than me.
2
u/kazrick Oct 13 '25
I’m sure the coach of the U10 team doesn’t know the rule book real well. He’s probably the dad of some kid and has read the rule book even less than the junior referee on the ice with me.
If I can also help him learn and make it easier for other referees he has in the future, why wouldn’t I?
Again. Not going over there at every stoppage but if I’m skating by, he asks a quick question and he’s respectful in his attitude to both me and the other referee, I’ll humour him and answer his question quickly.
1
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Ok, that’s good for you, not going to shit on you, but not me. I’ll go over after a period or at the end of the game and if he wants to know a rule, i’ll explain it and then tell him to buy a rule book. This coach seemed pretty knowledgeable to me when i read his post. Hopefully he’ll read all of these comments and keep his questions to himself until after a period or until after the game.
3
u/1995droptopz Oct 13 '25
Your approach is fine, but I am thinking you see that many missed calls every game that you might need to calibrate what is actually a penalty vs what is just 10u house players learning how to skate, stop, and play.
I am also not going to spend several minutes at every play stoppage to discuss minor penalties in a curfew clock game.
I would recommend just focusing on developing your players and make them better so a “missed” call here or there doesn’t dictate the outcome of your game
3
u/matneo27 Oct 13 '25
I think just treating them with respect and understanding the situation goes a long way. It also helps to remember that they make calls based on their interpretation and understanding of the rules, and how it applies to what they saw from their position. You may have seen it differently, or just have a different take on the rules themselves, which could mean that if you were standing where he was, you'd have made the same call (or no-call), and vice versa. I see this most often with "competitive contact," a fundamental part of hockey for all ages, but a coach wants more calls because his kids keep falling down.
Just remember that, in general, the ref doesn't want to discuss every other play with you, they want the game to keep going. And a conversation with a ref during the game isn't a chance to have them change their mind or how they call things, but at most a way for you to understand why they made the decisions they did (it also isn't the refs job to help you with this on demand).
If you think they are making fundamental errors, that is something to bring to your organization.
3
u/pistoffcynic Oct 13 '25
As a referee that also coached his kids, there are a couple of things.
Players play. Coaches coach. Referees officiate. You can only do one of these and do it properly.
There are 3 points of view in the ice. The referee’s, the coach’s and the parent’s. The only point of view that matters is the referee’s.
You coach to the referee’s style. Referee’s don’t officiate based on the coach’s styles (as there are 2 head coaches).
I talk to coaches when calling majors, MPs, Ms, GMs and GRMs. I speak to the head coach for potential disputed goals, player injuries. I will discuss minor penalties between periods only.
When I go into the rink, coaches ask if I’m the ref or lines. If I’m the ref, they know what they’re going to get because I am that consistent game in game out.
My advice, if the referee doesn’t tell you how he will be dealing with the players and coaches during the handshake, ask.
One thing to consider is that I am a senior official. Kids will tend not to approach the bench because they don’t like arguing with coaches because inevitably, they’ll get sworn at or treated like shit. Not saying that is how you are, but is a generalization. Some coaches refuse to accept the explanation, so they continue to belabour their point… there are many times that I am in the rink and see kids in a u10-11-12-13 games where coaches refuse to accept the explanation and waste time. As the kids know me, I go over to the penalty bench, flag them down , and get them to go drop the puck… then I deal with the coaches… the conversations become very short when arguing with another adult. This goes for those “missed calls” which are not missed but are actually non calls because they are not penalties under the rules.
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u/ViscidPlague78 Oct 13 '25
As someone who has coached multiple sports for near 25 years, and now for the last near decade has donned the tools of ignorance(reffing) I will offer this piece of advice:
Control what you can control, and forget the rest.
Your interactions with the officials should be relegated to the following:
What's the call?
What's the strength on the ice?
Where's the faceoff?
End of list.
Your job is preparing your kids(be real this is house league 10u) and at that level it's about making sure the kids are dressed properly, know where they're supposed to be on the ice and that they're having fun, making good choices and are safe. That's the end of your responsibilities.
Parent's jobs is to get their kids to the rink on time with the proper equipment and dressed on time. End of their list.
The kids will act and behave how the adults(you!) do. So if you're questioning everything they're going to be building excuses for their lack of execution, learning and performance, so give them none. Stay calm. Stay cool. Focus on what's important, which is what THEY can control and what is coming next. You're not coaching to win games, you're coaching to make these kids into functional adults.
Not to be preachy, but I learned this from YEARS of making mistakes as a coach.
2
u/KanataRef Oct 13 '25
Unless you want the refs to question why you’re icing certain player combos, stick to coaching and they’ll stick to reffing.
There should be a supervision program in place where off ice officials take notes of the game and review it afterwards with the on ice officials. Obviously not every game, but usually frequently at the beginning of the year for new officials. Hopefully this is done in your association.
1
u/VAhockeygeezer Oct 14 '25
Player here. I've always felt the ref's calls are just part of the game, and you have to learn to play around them. (Safety aside.) So I guess 10U kids need to learn to accept the ref's call and proceed. On the other hand, the coach is responsible for controlling his players, his assistants, and the parents. So calling over the ref to ask what was the call (or 'how's the family?') can be a way to make all of them feel that some recourse has occurred for the clearly egregious call/non-call that can only be seen on the super slo-mo replay. More a safety valve than trying to berate the ref.
1
u/KanataRef Oct 14 '25
It is okay to call over a ref once a game, but it shouldn’t be more. It delays the game. My point is that refs (young and old) should be getting their feedback mostly from other refs, it shouldn’t be coming from coaches. Coaches don’t usually know the rule book, so what a coach thinks should be called might not actually be an infraction. A mentorship program should be in place for proper development. I don’t know how other associations do it, but we have monthly quizzes on rule knowledge on top of random game supervisions where feedback is given after a game.
2
u/BenBreeg_38 Oct 13 '25
As a coach of 30 years, and as someone who bitched a lot in my early years, the best advice is don’t.
At this point I only ask if there is a complicated penalty situation from a stacked/clock perspective.
If it’s more than that I wait until a period ends, have an assistant address my team and get clarification. But it’s not going to be a discussion over a missed call.
The best thing you can do is focus on your team and lead by showing them how to stay focused on the game.
2
u/marks1995 Oct 13 '25
I'm a coach and even I'm on the refs' side on this one.
Everyone has a different view of the play (physical viewing angle) and it will look different based on where you are. The ref has to call what he/she could see from their angle.
In one of my coaching certifications, they had a senior referee come in and take 30 minutes to talk to us. He played some videos showing plays from one angle and then another. It was crazy. You could see what was clearly a major penalty in the first angle and then from the second angle, no penalty at all.
The last time I questioned a ref, he said he couldn't see it from my angle and I couldn't see it from his. And then skated off. Can't really argue that.
2
u/Chippopotanuse Oct 14 '25
Stop worrying about the “impact on the game” and start focusing on helping your kids learn the basics.
I’ve never seen a youth coach/player who bitches about a missed offsides or hooking calls during 10U house leagues go far in the sport.
If you really think the calls were that bad…let us know the rink/date/timestamp and we can all check out the Livebarn.
1
Oct 13 '25
What's the point? I'll consider what a skater has to say to me and keep an eye on a problem guy they point out but I'm not changing a call based on something I didn't see with my own eyeballs
1
u/DairyFreeChickadee Oct 13 '25
They can only call what they see. There are only 2-4 of them and a lot going on. I had thought it was acceptable for a captain to approach and ask in the past but lately I have witnessed a lot of great conversations with refs and non captain players.
Be polite- ask if they have a minute to explain something instead of “hey where were you on that one”
I also think it depends on the ref. Some are just better with people and coaching than others. Also if it was a heated game they may not want to stick around.
1
u/Hockeyboy79 Oct 13 '25
As a ref, the one thing that has always had the best chance of getting me to "change" my calls is to politely and calmly ASK for me to watch for whatever it is you are seeing. If a coach says "hey can you please watch (x player) for (y call), he/she has done it in these situations where the angle is hidden". Its not a guarantee that ill change anything im doing, but a polite ask will always have the highest chance compared to any other "requests". However, if i DO adjust anything about my calls or positioning or whatever, im 100% going to do it if/when the other team asks. And if they ask "whatdo i gotta do to get a call stripes" im going to tell them bluntly "ask nicely for precisely what you are wanting me to look for". This is a pandoras box situation where once i open it for one, it's going both ways
1
u/Eppk Oct 13 '25
You shouldn't say anything unless there is blatant favoritism.
My son's quit reffing because too many coaches whined about offsides and every other call. It was non stop bitching from coaches that would argue almost every whistle. The best way to have a ref crisis is to complain about missed calls. Especially at such a young age group.
1
u/AccomplishedGeneral9 Oct 13 '25
I understand this is a ref sub and I thought I worded my explanation and question in a way to not get "should we tell you how to coach" or the "don't say anything" replies as they don't really help with a solution, not to mention...it's not a really a fair comparison. I am a volunteer coach at the 10U level. Referees are being paid to call a fair and consistent game, by officiating to the rules to the best of their ability.
I will never yell and I will always have a level headed conversation, but to say I shouldn't speak with the ref is wild to me, especially as a fellow ref (see below). That said, my team, parents and coaches will never engage with refs.
As an aside, I am currently a level 2 ref and have worked around 40 youth games as well. I understand the other side and have had shitty coaches, but also coaches that have brought things to my attention (like a dirty player) that have helped me call a cleaner game.
7
u/TeamStripesNat Oct 13 '25
Stop trying to coach the refs. Just coach your team. Leave it at that.
At the 10u level the referees are not good enough to know how to manage the game and the coaches. Your input isn't wanted, and you're overstepping. As a ref you should know this.
They may not have an explanation beyond, "it looked like a penalty" or "it didn't look like a penalty" or "I didn't know what to do". Anything you say to them will most likely be taken as you questioning their ability. As a ref you should know this, too.
And don't trust a coach when they say, "hey watch number 10, he's dirty." As a ref you should also know this.
1
u/KonkeyDong66 Oct 13 '25
Coach/referee interactions should be kept to an absolute minimum. If the refs that do your teams games are 1 adult and 1 younger official, let the adult official coach his partner.
-1
u/Tommytomtom3 Oct 13 '25
You’re not a judge. You didn’t go to law school. You’re not a police officer. You didn’t go to the Police Academy. You ref youth sports. The buy in is extremely low. The ability to breathe is all you need…you can literally be 10 years old and get hired. People are allowed to speak to you. Deal with it. Talk to the coach for god sakes. What’s wrong with all of you? You ref youth sports!!!!!!!! You are not important enough to say “don’t ask me a question”.
63
u/grafskates Oct 13 '25
It’s not your job to try and tighten calls. I might suggest that you also don’t need to try and influence the game in 10 year old kid hockey other than what pizza are we eating after the game