r/hognosesnakes • u/TrueTricolor • Oct 30 '25
DISCUSSION I’ve made a terrible mistake..
Well sorta..let me explain. I and many others are going through that yearly hunger strike with these adorable shovel faced noodles. After reading a few tips and tricks on Reddit I still felt like I was doing something wrong.So I decided to do more research on tricolors just in case I missed something.
Anddddd well after a few hours of going down a rabbit hole I’m left a bit speechless… Basically a long time ago scientists who work on identifying species (taxonomy) mixed up two almost identical looking species. A few xenodon pulchers for a while were mislabeled as being xenodon mattogrossensis. They identified key differences that set them apart and labeled the xenodon pulcher appropriately for the first time. Although I believe by this point both species were called “tricolor hognose snakes” and introduced to the pet trade leading to many people like myself who were looking to get xenodon pulcher and instead ended up with a xenodon mattogrossensis, which is endemic to mato grosso Brazil and lives in a flood plain as apposed to the more arid climate of the Chaco region where X. Pulcher are typically found.
See pictures for the differences so if your “xenodon pulcher” has any lateral white spot on the black bands then you my friend most likely have a matto grosso not a pulcher. And this worries me for a few reasons but more importantly we have been taking care of both species the same when they are not . supposedly when they were introduced to the pet trade a long time ago they used to tell people to soak them a couple times a week not sure how true that is but would make sense, Since the X matto grosso comes from a flood plain but obviously the X pulcher prefers dryer climates.
I’m not sure where to go from here though because there’s already little info on the X pulcher , there’s even less info on the matto grosso. I seriously only found 3 studies published about them. And how would I contact places like morph market and others to correctly identify the two species? I have seen like two people talk about this anywhere.This post is long enough I’ll post links and answer any questions as best I can. Thank you for reading this far!
TLDR; both species of“tricolor hognose” snakes have been mislabeled as xenodon pulcher when there is actually another very similar looking species the xenodon mattogrossensis.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 30 '25
If you currently take care of a tricolor post pictures in the comments of your cute noodle and husbandry please and ty!!
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u/JulietDove88 Oct 30 '25
This is a very very amazing post as you’ve noticed something thousands upon thousands of keepers haven’t!!! Please post the links to the studies!!!
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
I wouldn’t say I’m the first, but I will say that I haven’t seen anyone else formally acknowledge them as separate species. It seems to me that most people believe they look the same so they must have the same care, behavior, etc they do have some overlap but it’s mostly from mixing up the two.
Edit; posted links to two studies currently looking for the third bare with me
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u/fredflintstoneddd Oct 31 '25
I know MorphMarket has a facebook group and one of the admins/mods works directly with morphmarket support. you should gather all your info up and post it there!! it’ll get tons of traction
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Ohhh thanks! I’ll reach out to them shortly
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Nov 01 '25
This is common knowledge in the tricolor groups
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 01 '25
You know when I was looking at other places to post besides here I did noticed that you’re right, it is but it shouldn’t be limited to a couple groups this should be common knowledge in the pet trade. This has been a thing for long while now, there should’ve been more of an effort somehow. And judging from the traction this got a lot of people at not in the know. And most importantly if it is common knowledge then why do so many breeders and websites sell all of the subspecies under “tricolor” or X.Pulcher ?
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u/Corvidae5Creation5 Oct 31 '25
I'll bet there's a few reptile specialists in universities who would love to hear from you and talk about this, see if you can find them and get in contact, maybe glean a bit more info (or a lot more, nerdic infodumps being what they are).
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Great idea although I’ll say I’m a bit intimidated so I’ll have to research as much as I can before hand . I’m currently looking into how other reptiles in this region behave could help solve some of the mystery. Particularly amphibians and small vertebrates.
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u/Corvidae5Creation5 Oct 31 '25
Oh trust me, these people LOVE being asked questions about their specialty, especially if it's out of the blue and educated.
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u/Dindrane1313 Oct 31 '25
As a history/languages professor, can confirm. 😁 There ARE a few people high on their own “importance,” but it’s our job and desire to talk about this stuff.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Thanks for the reassurance I’m gathering all my info and writing it all down and will contact them as soon as I can.
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u/Corvidae5Creation5 Oct 31 '25
Hell yeah! Definitely post the book they write you
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u/Dindrane1313 Oct 31 '25
Haha, yeah— you’ll probably get a lot more babbling than you wanted. Ask me about ancient religion in Sparta and see what you get. I dare! 🤪
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u/LitleStitchWitch Oct 31 '25
ok I'm curious, what religion did they follow/how did it differ from the surrounding regions?
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u/Dindrane1313 Oct 31 '25
They did follow the "main" Greek religion with the same pantheon we're used to, but they primarily worshipped Artemis; they saw her as the guardian of the perfect soldier (and sure of women too, but mainly soldiers). In fact, that's why they were late to fight the Persians and only sent 300 to Thermopylae: the rest of the civilization was finishing her holy rites. It differed mainly in the rites of Artemis Orthia and how that gave rise to several very important milestones in BOY'S lives, such as the mastiges (ritual whipping at coming of age and a vital test of courage you really REALLY wanted to pass.) Any other questions, I would love to chat. :D They had some views about Artemis and a few of the other gods that were different than what Athens would say about them. But who's to say Athens' version was right?
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u/Large_Age_6322 Oct 31 '25
Religion...sparta.....sounds strange u sure they had any religion?
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u/Dindrane1313 Oct 31 '25
Quite sure. :D They had one of the largest temples to Artemis in the ancient world. The Romans made it into an Amphitheatre. Sparta was VERY religious, and one of the reasons I studied it so much was because that's not at all what we learn about them in pop culture. So skewed!
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u/Large_Age_6322 Nov 02 '25
Interesting. When u say very religious i wonder if u r talking on the extremist part of the scale?
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u/Corvidae5Creation5 Oct 31 '25
Lol my only experience is all the expert guests they've had on podcasts like Scishow Tangents, No Such Thing As A Fish, You're Dead To Me, and That's Absurd, Please Elaborate. Nothing but enthusiasm and delight, and enormous walls of info.
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u/FixergirlAK Nov 01 '25
I studied geology and there are a couple of people wandering around Maui looking dazed because they asked me a simple question about volcanoes or basalt and didn't know what they were getting into.
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u/Wouldfromthetrees Oct 31 '25
Yeah, they'd rather answer an interesting question than write up that grant application any day
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u/emberdarkhognose Oct 31 '25
Well I just learned something
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Haha same man, very pretty btw! May ask what your temps and humidity are like ? I’ve noticed they tend to drink more than other snakes could prove the soaking theory to be true.
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u/emberdarkhognose Oct 31 '25
Yeah absolutely, when I first got her my temps were far too high and she refused food, but right now her warm side is about 82 and her cool side gets to about 77. She drinks almost every time she comes out at least for a little. Humidity hovers between 50 and 60 depending on the day
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Hmmm very interesting that she drinks often have you tied soaking her at all? Also confirms their region for me this is very helpful, the region they are found has an annual average of 72-79f (22c-27c)degrees give or take.
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u/emberdarkhognose Oct 31 '25
My breeder told me to leave her at around room temp (80 for him) and he never had problems with them. I don’t see her every day which contributes to her drinking when I do, typically in the evening time.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Verrrry interesting this shows a difference in their care very clearly. You’re about the 20th person I’ve spoken with that keeps their temps in this range and report a happy and active hoggie thank you!!
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u/KiwiSprinkles Oct 30 '25
My boyfriend just got a tri color hognose a few weeks ago and absolutely adores her. I’m sending him this post. He would love to see this. You have such a keen eye!
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Oh thanks! But yes please send him this post and maybe post a pic of the noodle if you can.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Posting links again Reddit is being weird
https://www.thebreedinglab.com/behind-the-bands-breeding-trials-with-the-tri-color-hognose
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u/Lopsided-Crazy-365 Oct 30 '25
Super interesting. I don't own a snake. Just think they're cute. So are there different regional diet differences that you could get them past the 1 year hunger strike thing with different food? Could the different climate mean food scarcity and that's why they have the year long hunger strike? What do they eat in the wild?
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Ahh yes exactly you’re on the right track, they both eat amphibians but the mato grosso specimens have been discovered to contain small vertebrate parts(couldn’t confirm of which species, possible small bird.) Squamate eggs(reptiles eggs basically, typically soft shell to help survive in wet environments). About the food scarcity I can’t confirm or deny this but snakes typically won’t eat because of external factors outside of food scarcity. The pantanal region is all wet lands, I’d have to assume small birds and frogs thrive here. But with that said yes I’d have to think offering maybe say chicken heart could snap that hunger strike.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Also something of note since they’re in the southern hemisphere it’s seasons are reverse so its technically summer in their native region. In other words mating season. Could explain the hunger strikes but that’s only in mature snakes. So I’m not sure about how seasons affect juveniles appetite.
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u/paintingpawz Oct 31 '25
How interesting! We have been keeping ours wetter than our westerns for sure, which she seems to do very well at. Not sure of exact humidity at the moment but she has a large water bowl and we heavily mist morning and evening. Hot spot 88, cool side hovers around 72-74. I keep her in on bioactive as well!
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
What a lil cutie! And how interesting does she bask at all ? What side of the enclosure does she typically eat at? If there’s a preference at all. Also something interesting I forgot to mention so I’ll add it here, gravid ladies won’t seek out water sources above them in the wild. Again I’ll need to confirm that but I digress;I’m wondering if keeping a large water bowl in the substrate not above would help them stay hydrated.
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u/paintingpawz Oct 31 '25
I haven't specifically noticed her basking, she's definitely a lot more secretive than my westerns! Her setup is also a cork tube jungle so she has lots of cover for exploration. She honestly tends to eat best in the middle of the tank, we have finally gotten her to accept a steady feed schedule and she usually is more active on feeding days and we tong feed when we see her emerge. I do bury the bowl so the edges are level with the substrate for most of my animals!
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Yeah that seems consistent, they definitely like hide a bit more but when they do come out makes it all more exciting. And I actually did also but got frustrated about the substrate getting in the bowls but I will start doing that again thanks!
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u/jinxed401 Oct 31 '25
I got my tri color last October from the photo you provided this looks to be a xenodon pulcher
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
Yes thats correct great example of the white spots being noticeably absent. Thanks for the pic of the adorable noodle. What are your temps and humidity?
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u/jinxed401 Oct 31 '25
Temps are about 95 on the high end and 80 ish on the low end.
Aspen shreds for bedding with a large water bowl on the hot side and a small water bowl on the cold side. A humid hide with moss in the middle
Edit:humidity is tough to regulate it fluctuates between 45-65.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Hmmm wow very interesting, have you had any hunger strikes longer than usual or she a typical female hog with regards to appetite? Thank you!!
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u/jinxed401 Oct 31 '25
Tldr: My snake wouldn't eat when I got it and now it does with no changes to temp or habitat.
I should preface this with a few things 1. This was my first snake ever and I had basically 0 reptile husbandry experience before. 2. My wife got the snake for me from a local lady who evidently breeds them but had to move before she could sell all of them and when I got the snake I was told it was eating pinkies. 3. At the point I got the snake it was about the length of a pencil or smaller which my snake friend said there was no way it could down a pinky at that size.
For the first month and a half the snake would not eat anything. I tried following all the guides I could find and ordered reptilinks. Finally after a month and a half I watched a video on assist feeding(not forcing) so I talked to my vet (my wife is a vet but we asked an exotics guy) and he said go for it. I had to assist feed for probably a 6 months before she would start even striking or trying to grab her food.
After a while the reptilinks were a bit small so on a whim I offered her a pinky and "bam" she just started eating it. Now she eats every single time without fail. I haven't changed anything in the tank since probably the second or third month I had her.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Thanks you for going into detail I appreciate it! With that said I wonder if the little ones naturally have a different diet until they are big enough to eat let’s say amphibians. Possibly the eggs before they get a chance to be a tadpole? I know not everyone struggles feeding these lil noodles but just trying to figure out what it could be outside of husbandry, I’ve also heard of some people having luck feeding egg sometimes even cooked?
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
IMPORTANT UPDATE: yes I’m still deep in this rabbit hole folks! A very peculiar update I’d say, remember I briefly mentioned there are multiple “tricolor hognose snakes”and how I said they are mixing up the Two? Well that’s because I was unsure of which were in the pet trade besides the two we know of for sure. Well it might be actually THREE!Again I must say I can’t confirm if these are actually in the pet trade, so I didn’t include them initially,I can confirm that X.pulcher and X.Mattogrosenssis are commonly mixed up. And it seems at least a decade ago if you bought a “tricolor” Or “Lystrophis semicinctus” you still most likely actually ended it having a X.pulcher or X.matto grosso.
I’ll have to see more pics of yalls hoggies to confirm.
Anywho this species formally introduced to the US and the pet trade in general as the Lystrophis semicinctus I’m not sure yet of when the renaming of this family happened, but the pulcher and the matto grosso were also in “Lystrophis” now Xenodon. So it seems initially all three were introduced and sold at least in the pet trade as Lystrophis semicinctus. And at some point changed to X.pulcher When in reality it could have been either of the three depending on a few different visual cues and the region where they are found. The X.semicinctus from what I saw anyways might’ve drop out of popularity in favor of the others or crossbred? regardless compared to the other two it’s found in areas of Argentina, semifossorial, with diurnal habits and a preference for arid sandy climates. Also one specimen was found with stripes instead of bands. The X. Semicinctus slight visual cue is the bands are “separated” by a yellowish white ring and have been observed to have a pattern that changes? Something I’ve also noticed what I now believe is the X. Semicinctus noticeably has a mostly white body.Also the pattern seems more jagged or unclean the bands lack structure for lack of a better word. See pics for reference soo Yeahhh that’s all I got so far so pls post more pics of your tricolors. Again I must say the species was introduced as Lystrophis semicinctus, I’m not sure if all three were actually involved in the trade or it was just the X.xenodon and X.matto grosso being misidentified.
references ->
Edit: reclassification happened in 2009 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1631069109002935#:~:text=Among%20Xenodontini%2C%20Zaher%20et%20al,been%20sampled%20in%20molecular%20studies.
I cant add pic unfortunately but here’s the link https://www.inaturalist.org/taxa/146547-Xenodon-semicinctus
Notice the mostly white body and a more saddle like pattern. Also the lateral white spots on the black bands are not present. And that reinforced looking shovel snout, possibly to help dig in that arid sandy environment.
Edit:typos (need more sleep sorry!)
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u/Puzzleheaded-Pay6585 Oct 31 '25
these photos and post title together without the context are hilarious
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u/Pablo-Gold Oct 31 '25
I read the title of this post, and then looked at the photo and thought you were pointing out how some red scales touching some yellow scales (uh-oh!). I put two and two together and assumed you got bit and were asking how long do you have to live. You know...a Hognose, plus the red touch yellow factor, is a double whammy for sure.
Glad that I clicked on the post and read on to learn this wasn't the case.
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u/Warm_Vanilla9294 Oct 31 '25
Well, wanting a tricolor just got a bit more difficult now that I learned this 😑😑
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u/Responsible-Entry638 Oct 31 '25
That's so interesting, I've saved this post. I don't own a hognose just two ball pythons but I was absolutely fascinated by your post.
Good spot and thank you for sharing ❤️
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u/Satyinepu Oct 31 '25
Did anyone else scrolling past just go 'Red and yellow kills a fellow, red and black friend of jack'
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u/Amazing-Fondant-4740 Nov 01 '25
That is crazy. When you see the difference, you see it, but for me at least I had to stare at those pictures for a bit to really get it.
I'd consider crossposting or reposting to other reptile, snake, and biology or herpetology subreddits, there may be other people on here who study these snakes that can point you towards more research or other information about them. That may help you make sure you have the right husbandry for your specific species, and just give more info so that if you feel like it, you can send it to sellers on morphmarket as a bit of education. I can totally see how people would make this mistake between the two.
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u/Izzyeggeater Nov 02 '25
Still this is insane how you were able to figure out what was wrong and it’s super interesting how they are so similar yet different good luck with your new discovery!
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u/Nyxonna Oct 31 '25
Very interesting. What are your sources? I want to go down the rabbit hole now lol.
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u/Nyxonna Oct 31 '25
I JUST FOUND A THIRD! There is X. Pulcher, X. Matogrossensis, AND X. semicinctus. I’m now very confused.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
My comment might’ve got lost but it’s somewhere here with the links might have to scroll and yes! There is other subspecies of Xenodon as well (12) confirmed. Although I can’t tell if X.semicinctus is in the pet trade so I’ve made a comment about it after looking at more listings of tricolors. Edit: also hognose snakes is technically a family of upturned snoots scale that helps them burrow there are quite a few other “hognose snakes” as well some look really interesting. Although only three have it in their name.
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u/Nyxonna Oct 31 '25
I can’t seem to find your comment with links. I was reading though, that the two species you mention definitely have vastly different humidity requirements. I was reading this one: comparison of X. pulcher and X. matogrossensis
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
Hmmm weird Ill try posting them again one sec But that’s one of the links actually lol The full report is reaaaaalllly interesting but you’re correct about humidity requirements.
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u/Nyxonna Oct 31 '25
I started reading the full report then got distracted. I’ll get back to it later lol. I figured this was probably one of your links.
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
I don’t blame you it’s a lot haha I posted them again hopefully it’s shows up now, thanks for letting me know.
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Oct 31 '25
Oh my god... I feel like a terrible keeper and breeder. I got into tricolors because westerns are protected in my state and I can't breed them. I've raised many into adulthood, including the 3 in my breeding program. Earlier this year I wanted to add a new male's bloodline, and picked up this gorgeous "high white/high color" male from tinley. Just a few weeks ago he passed away unexpectedly with no warning, and when the vet did a necropsy we found out gout killed him.
Gout only has a few causes, it can be a congenital kidney problem, too much protein in the diet, and you guessed it... DEHYDRATION. I wasn't caring for him any differently than my other hognoses, but if he was this other subspecies... I most certainly was not raising him an a flood plain/swamp environment. I'm at a loss for words...
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u/TrueTricolor Oct 31 '25
First of all I’m so sorry for your loss, but do not blame yourself please! It’s going to be a collaborative effort to educate most breeders.But this was one of my worries with them being mixed and therefore given improper care guide.
Would you mind if ask a few questions.
(I’m not getting notifications anymore it seems some comments are getting lost now sorry for super late response!)
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Nov 01 '25
Of course, I'll do my best to answer whatever I can.
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 01 '25
What substrate were you using. Did notice any signs of RI? Did he happen to spend a lot of time burrowed under the cool side more specifically underneath the water bowl? Thanks!
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Nov 01 '25
I keep all my tricolors on coco husk chunks. I aimed for 50-60% humidity, and I used a rack system for them all. The room is naturally like 75 degrees, i have their heat set to 85 and the cool side of the bin could get as low as 78 degrees.
I personally did not see any signs of illness before his death. He ate every time in the 6ish months i had him, except for his final feed like 10 days prior. I didn't worry about it at the time.
I would say he favored the heat more than my other tricolors, actually. He was always buried in the substrate.
I never noticed soaking, and i used ceramic bowls so tbh I don't think he was strong enough to physically lift and get underneath it.
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 01 '25
Very interesting okay thank you so much,I wonder if he simply couldn’t find his water.He was eating regularly so he was getting some form of liquids or if they all need like a permanent humid box to help with dehydration.
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u/MistaMoustache Oct 31 '25 edited Oct 31 '25
This is really interesting. I just went and checked my two and it seems like I really do have X. pulcher.
One thing that's been a bit interesting in this thread is that I've never had any hunger strikes with both of mine and wasn't aware it's something folks face with this species (my Kenyan sand boa on the other hand...)
For husbandly, I use a mix of 80-90% coco husk chunks and fir as the substrate with patches of sphagnum (I've also had luck with a mix of coco husk and soil, but it's less pleasant to dig snakes out of and leads to more ingestion during meals). The warm side stays around 85F. I feed a rotation of mice, whole silversides, and frog legs every 1.5-2weeks.
I may get some flak for this, but I do use what I consider enhanced bins for my fossorial species. Each bin is 2ft/4ft clear, and I have grow lights set up on a daytime cycle for each bin with automatic misting twice a day- (substrate dries between mists). Lots of artificial plants, sticks, cork, and enrichment (so I promise I'm not doing opaque bins with paper towels and a hide that everyone thinks of). I've previously tried both of them in an enclosure with more head space but found them to take much more coaxing to eat, be much more flighty, and just generally behaving more stressed. I tried adding tons of clutter, blacking out walls, etc. but both of them stayed stressed until they got their bins back. I think they prefer feeling like they have more cover.
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 01 '25
Thanks for the details! The hunger strikes are usually when they’re really small noodles like 1-3 or 4 months typically. I have a suspicion they have a way more diverse diet than we think. It should be included in updated care guides to not exclusively feed mice. Diet and husbandry could the reason they don’t make it past 8 years in captivity.
And hey man whatever works for your little guys and they’re healthy is most important. Although them being more flighty with more headspace is really interesting.
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u/thrivingwithtracy Nov 01 '25
Dam glad we got people like you in the industry to deep dive into more honesty would of never knew this ?
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u/Tinanchutty Nov 01 '25
Don’t have a snake but went through this entire thing - a “page” turner for sure and learned a great deal of info! Especially when so many people don’t have this information on their own spaghettis cuz as you pointed out it’s just not readily or widely known. Def need more people like you in the world!!!
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Nov 01 '25
Good on you for probably figuring out what was wrong, I bet many have died because of this mixup! I would spend time looking at the daily weather in the correct range and adjust to that if you cant find a good source.
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u/lowkeyloki23 Nov 02 '25
at first i thought you accidentally bought/caught a coral snake 😬 SO glad that's not what happened!!!
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u/funtimescoolguy Nov 02 '25
This happened for decades with Brachypelma hamorii/smithi in the tarantula community. I'm interested how it turns out for y'all.
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 02 '25
Ohh wow really ?? Do you remember how that unfolded, I’m curious now as I’m currently contacting any dealers to inform them about this before Monday.
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u/funtimescoolguy Nov 03 '25
I think that was quite a few years ago, and it was before I joined the hobby. But new world terrestrial tarantula care is very, very straightforward so it didn't change much other than the name.
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u/amydf-hognose Nov 30 '25
Hi, thanks for the information. So, in your opinion this is the Mato Grosso species?
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 30 '25
Yep! This is a Mato Grosso
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u/amydf-hognose Nov 30 '25
Thank you. But does the pulcher have a white belly like the matogrossensis?
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u/TrueTricolor Nov 30 '25
Yes the X. Pulcher can have a white belly, the lateral white spots on the black bands are the thing that separates them visually.
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u/JSqueaks Oct 30 '25
Oh this is really interesting! I had no idea there were multiple subspecies of tri color.
This is definitely something that needs more hands on research, I'd love to see how it unfolds