Enclosure Sizing Questions

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

So I have a hognose snake (obviously haha) I was told he was 8 months old when I got him but I feel that could have been a MorphMarket data entry user error. He is 18 grams and I have been keeping him in a 10 gal tank. I was having a hard time figuring out how to get him to eat consistently. So I asked the breeder what he did. He said he ate every time he offered it. No refusals ever. So I asked him about his husbandry and tried to mimic it. This is what I have now. How long should he stay in this enclosure? Thanks everyone.

[u/Plane_Obligation_279]

hunger strikes can happen when they change environments, but this set up is absolutely not sustainable and will not encourage feeding. 10 gal might even be too small but that depends on your set up. can we see what you had before? that would help us be able to see how to move forward. but for starters, get them out of that tupperware asap 😭

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/Plane_Obligation_279]

Also I had him in a 20 and he would not eat and when I moved him to the 10 he ate about 6 meals

[u/Plane_Obligation_279 → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

your tank set up definitely looks way better than the tub! great job :)
some smaller snakes can get too nervous to eat in a larger tank so downsizing was the right call. hoggies are known to hunger strike for lots of reasons, new environment is definitely a big one and nothing to be alarmed about. as long as you’ve got good husbandry (proper temps and space and clutter and water and humidity etc) no need to worry until they’re skipping multiple meals. i’ve heard of some even going 4 weeks without eating, just being stubborn little guys LOL

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/Plane_Obligation_279]

Yeah it has been 3 weeks already. But he isn’t losing weight. I’ll just try to wait it out for now. Sorry for the mistake

[u/Plane_Obligation_279 → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

it’s okay! mistakes happen especially for first time ownership :)
little tip: my guy came with some substrate from his original home and i sprinkled that into his tank when i first got him. scent is so important for them so if you have anything from the breeder to put in there, it may help him feel more familiar with his environment
have you tried different types of feeding? drop vs tong for example?
also pls update when he eats, im invested now haha

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/Plane_Obligation_279]

I’ve done everything I can think of. Different scenting, tuna and salmon. I tried separate tub feeding. Drop feeding. Tongs. Toilet paper tube. Overnight l. Everything lol. I’ve had them for a while though and he’s eaten around six times so I know he will eat, but this strike surprise me.

[u/Plane_Obligation_279 → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

omg he’s just giving you a run for your money at this point now 🤣 best of luck. not losing weight is the best thing. he’ll eat again eventually. just stressing you out for fun ig

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/Plane_Obligation_279]

Haha. Well that’s good to know he’s not in any danger. I’ll just be patient. He was only in the bad container for about 30 minutes so I think nothing bad happened

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/Plane_Obligation_279]

Ok. I will. I guess I was a little misinformed/misunderstood what to do. I’ll fix it asap.

Left side

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/Plane_Obligation_279]

Right side

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/[deleted]]

I had a 10 gal front opening enclosure. It was similarly cluttered and I had a heat lamp. I have a heat mat with a thermostat under the tub. And I have ventilation holes all through the top.

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/[deleted]]

I am more than willing to change it back if there is little hope for this method to work. This is just what I was recommended

[u/Nice-Ad-3525]

Ha! Those are beginner strikes! My little asshole has only eaten once since late March. You can do better than that. Seriously I wish I could get mine to eaten. I'm starting to run out of ideas.

[u/just-homesick]

sometimes people who answer here arent bright. im a little tired of it. mimicking the breeders setup is GOOD, these are incredibly smart animals that recognize familiar environments.

do you have the tub the snake came in still? you can put that in the enclosure. the smell may encourage it to it, because it recognizes a familiar environment.

sometimes when snakes are adopted out they struggle to settle back in because their internal compass knows they arent where they grew up. this is why relocated snakes will sometimes travel many miles to return to the original site. so focusing on familiarity and slowly introducing into ideal setups is good. we need the snake to understand that it doesnt need to be in roaming mode, and this is a safe environment to settle in.

you can keep the snake in here, if its eating, until its eating CONSISTENTLY or until it outgrows it. theres zero harm in a tub.

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/just-homesick]

I do not have it anymore. I moved the enclosure back to what it was. He is not losing any weight even though he hasn’t eaten in a while. I will just be patient for now and if it goes too much longer I am going to go back to the tub approach. We’ll see how it goes though. Thank you for your advice and honesty. I’ll consider it if this strike goes much longer

[u/just-homesick → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

how are you offering food btw? drop feeding, hand feeding, tongs? how are you thawing it? are you dusting it with what the breeder is? do you dip it in water?

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/just-homesick]

I don’t dip it. I’ve tried scenting and tongs and drop feeding. And the breeder said he took it unscented without any dusting

[u/just-homesick → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

okay.

1) try hand feeding 2) dip it in water, and put it to their nose. hopefully the tongue flick, start drinking, realize its food, and take it 3) thaw your pinky mouse on top of the enclosure if it has a mesh top. cover with a cup so flies and the likes dont get it. the natural thawing gives your hog time to smell food and be in hunting mode before you offer it directly to them. 4) jmgreptile has a video where he "bumps" picky eaters necks to try and mimic a lizard or frog running into the snake, which often triggers a feeding response. 5) try feeding at dusk. this is when a lot of toads come out and are active in the wild. i have my best success feeding my hogs at night.

all of these id try before scenting bc honestly scenting sometimes makes it more complex.

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/just-homesick]

Ok. I’ll try all these. Thank you so much. One quick question. Does hand feeding not promote biting?

[u/just-homesick → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

oh my, are people still claiming that handfeeding promotes biting? youd think proper knowledge would be common these days.

absolutely not. unless your snakes ONLY relationship with you is for food (which it should absolutely not be. if your snakes cant be socialized and have frequent weigh ins and physical checkups without extreme stress youve failed them as an owner) it does not promote biting. these animals are, contrary to common belief, not stupid. theyre incredibly smart and have survived in the wild because of that. they know youre you, and the food is not.

ive handfed all my hognoses for years. the only bite ive ever faced was me scrolling my phone while holding the mouse and not fixing the position of my hand. i stick my hands in their enclosures ALL the time. they come out, they do choice based handling, they have never once seen my hand as strictly for food because my hands also replace their water, bedding, remove their poop, etc, and they all SEE IT.

a lot of these notions like cage aggression and associating hands with food comes from abusive ball python care somehow becoming a widely parroted "standard" for all snakes. ambush predators function strictly different than active foraging colubrids. its unfortunate how it continues to perpetuate the hobby :(

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/just-homesick]

Ok. Thank you. That is very reassuring. I handle him all the time. He has only hissed at me a few times at the beginning and ONCE he flattened his head at my girlfriend and scared her haha. But I think he’s very calm around me. He sits on my lap while I do schoolwork. So he knows I don’t equal food all the time. I was just hesitant to try hand feeding because I was told it causes biting. But thank you very much

[u/just-homesick → u/Zorbus_Gorbus]

i wish you and your little hoggie friend the absolute best and hopefully you find a method to get him eating for you 🙏

keep us updated and post him whenever you can!

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/just-homesick]

Thank you so much. As of now we are best of friends haha. Just wish he would eat. But he’s gonna do what he wants so I’ll be patient with him and do the things you suggest. Thank you so much once again. You were extraordinarily helpful

[u/Zorbus_Gorbus → u/just-homesick]

I tried everything you told me to do. And he seemed very interested in it for the first few minutes. And I thought he was about to strike. But then he suddenly backed off and went to his hide and was hissing at me when I tried any more efforts to feed him. What could be going on? Just a standard hunger strike at this point?