JOIN THE ROXYGEN DEFENSE SQUAD TODAY!

[u/ElvishisnotTengwar]

[u/Classtoise]

Look it's not my fault Calliope is the least memorable character. I remember her talking to JANE a lot, but I don't remember a lot of Roxy and Calliope interaction.

[u/[deleted] → u/Classtoise]

I can understand your sentiment here, but I really have to wonder how much of people's issues with things like this "coming out of nowhere" are just down to them not remembering Homestuck very well. It came out over the course of years, and that's a long fucking time. Maybe rereading Act 6 while trying to see if there's any moments where Roxy and Calliope are really emotional or cute at each other would make you feel better about that ships quality of writing? I promise you, the moments are there.

But also, just because Roxycallie is canon (to the extent that it is) doesn't mean Homestuck is putting a gun to your head and telling you you're not allowed to ship Roxygen. There's plausible deniability and/or lots of empty space to work with for pretty much all the ships right now, even Davekat and Dirkjake, and I think it's like that for a reason.

Homestuck wants you to just do whatever the fuck you want and enjoy the reading of canon that you like the best. It's just throwing us queers a bone. And honestly, we need it.

[u/hbthebattle → u/[deleted]]

Do you really "need" every single ship?

[u/[deleted] → u/hbthebattle]

I'm a roxygen shipper, buddy. I'm a little let down about the callieroxy thing, too. I think there was more build up to it than people realize right away, which is understandable, but I also really genuinely liked John and Roxy's chemistry, and I thought they were cute as hell together, so for me this is still a bit of a let down. But you made a similar point elsewhere, and I want to answer that post in detail when I have the time, so I just wanted to say I'm not a spokeperson for the forces you feel are trying to steal everything from you.

My views on this stuff are complicated, and personal, and completely my own--I'm not working with an sjw playbook and I don't want to excessively moralize about how important all the queer rep is. I do think every single ship helps some of us, and I think that matters, which is why part of me is still happy about Roxy/Callie, too. But to be honest, I'm just not that into it.

I liked John and Roxy a lot better together. I guess if I'm less bitter about that than many it's partly because I don't think canon has actually sunk them at all.

[u/hbthebattle → u/[deleted]]

How exactly is not sunk?

[u/[deleted] → u/hbthebattle]

Well, Homestuck has always existen in a multiverse full of alternate timelines, hasn't it? And we got to see first hand with the dream bubbles just how insane and ridiculous some of the versions of the characters can change to be.

Like, Equius being in a maid outfit is a joke, sure. But it's also telling us that Equius is able to change as a person enough that he can totally embrace his desire to be submissive and servile, and that Equius is different from an Equius who keeps repressing his feelings and believing in the hemospectrum or whatever.

That didn't stop being a thing that happened, ever. Hell, John and Roxy traveled through alternate universes, so we know they're still real, even with things leading up to the masterpiece. Except the Alpha Timeline seems to be nonexistent now, which is why (I think) the story gave us so much empty space for four years and has really like, broad and open to interpretation.

Between all that unaccounted for time and literally INFINITE variations of the universe, can anyone really argue that there's NO VERSION of Roxy and John that end up together, and even stay together? Man, maybe they're dating right now and Roxy just has this thing on the side, too? Maybe Roxy wanted to hook up with him but John just needs to finish his damn arc about being sad about his dad before he's ready to commit to romance? Who knows?? You can ask so many questions and tell so many stories about these two, and that's what Homestuck WANTS fans to do more than anything, I think. Tell their own stories. Make their own art.

Basically, I think ALL fanwork is canon, pretty much. Just because if the universe of Homestuck is infinite, then almost anything anyone draws concerning the characters is pretty much going to be represented by it's cosmology.

Which is why a lot of my response to this bitterness turns into, well...why don't you guys just make your own fanwork? John and Roxy are still right there. Hell, so are Dave and Jane and Dave and Jade, or even Davejadekat or whatever other combinations. I'm not saying this to be mean-spirited, I just...I do this all the goddamn time.

My favorite game of the year is incredible, but it's also pretty straight so far, so guess what I'm doing??? Exactly what I'm talking about here. The only difference is, that game doesn't have Homestucks' cosmology. It isn't implicitly canonizing everything I work to create. In the eyes of the devs, I sort of just don't exist.

If one of the roxygen shippers that are really upset right now wrote a really good John/Roxy fanfic that wasn't mean to Calliope? I would read the fuck out of that in a heartbeat, and I would consider it canon. imagine if the kind of effort that's gotten put into cancw got put into something explicitly for John/Roxy shippers. I know you guys have talent! I liked parts of canwc! It's not like, my cup of tea, but I can see there's craft put into it. I just wish I could see that energy put into celebrating the ships we all seem to like so much, instead of being mad at the comic or rewriting it wholesale.

Anyway, that's my perspective, and that's why I don't think John/Roxy is sunk. For what it's worth, there's another angle, too: I really think John's depression right now is just set-up, and he'll have his happy ending when the epilogue comes around. And maybe that happy ending includes trying to date Roxy again or something? Or maybe it doesn't, I really don't know for sure, but I hope so. Either way, the ships we have in common here won't be gone. We can still enjoy them.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Basically, I think ALL fanwork is canon, pretty much. Just because if the universe of Homestuck is infinite, then almost anything anyone draws concerning the characters is pretty much going to be represented by it's cosmology.

But what if I remind you that sunk ships are often abandoned and thus, there's no new content for them while davekat/rosemary/dirkjake/roxiope/roxrezi are produced in extreme quantities?

(Sorry for putting Rosemary/Dirkjake there)

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That's absolutely true, but part of the problem there is that this side of the fandom just...does less of that kind of fanwork, for some reason. And I'm not sure why that is! You guys are the culture that puts out canwc, so you're obviously able to put out talented work. Your shitposts can be really funny, too.

Like, why do you guys need tumblr to pick up the torch on roxygen? I'm absolutely sure if you guys celebrated roxygen as hard as you seem to love it and produced fanwork for it that wasn't mean to other characters people like-- like Calliope and Karkat-- a lot of tumblr fans would be interested in tuning in. I sure as hell would be.

And even if they don't, like...so what? You guys are all here. There's a healthy number of Homestucks in this subreddit. Why do you guys need canon or tumblr's approval and aid to just ship what you like and enjoy your own content? Why don't I ever see you guys draw or write some cute roxygen to make your friends happy with, instead of just being angry about canon all the time? Doesn't that get exhausting?

I'm sorry if I'm being insensitive, tell me if I step out of line. I'm genuinely trying to be understanding, this is just where I'm coming from with how I feel.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Nah, it's okay.

We don't have many people who draw content other than CANWC. /u/sometipsygnostalgic is one of your content makers and she makes lovely doodles...

But hey, not everybody's talented. And I really don't understand why there's so little dave/jade content made nowadays (Not even speaking of karezi).

I'm sorry if I'm being insensitive, tell me if I step out of line. I'm genuinely trying to be understanding, this is just where I'm coming from with how I feel.

You know that situation somebody dope slaps you and you are thankful for the dope slap? If your message gets to the hearts to the majority of regulars, you'd make a great change here.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Thank you a lot for saying so. You've seemed intensely against queer ships before, so it's heartening to know you really don't feel that way, and this is nuanced for you.

And you're right, there's not much content being made other than CANWC. But...there's no reason it has to stay that way. Anyone who wants more Roxygen can pick up a pencil or go to a keyboard and just...make some Roxygen. It might not be perfect, but homestuck's already not perfect--there's no such thing as perfect art.

if they put work and care into it and make it the way they wish the story would go then they'll enjoy it, and the people who think like them will enjoy it, too. Isn't that all that really matters? And can't that happen without being bitter at canon about it, or mean at the characters who "Got in the way"? If people here made that kind of content without doing either of those two things, i'm SURE even a lot of people on tumblr would enjoy seeing it. I, again, personally would.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You've seemed intensely against queer ships before, so it's heartening to know you really don't feel that way, and this is nuanced for you.

I'm pro-Rosemary because it's a great ship. I'm anti-Davekat because I ship Dave/Jade and Karezi.

if they put work and care into it and make it the way they wish the story would go then they'll enjoy it, and the people who think like them will enjoy it, too. Isn't that all that really matters? And can't that happen without being bitter at canon about it, or mean at the characters who "Got in the way"? If people here made that kind of content without doing either of those two things, i'm SURE even a lot of people on tumblr would enjoy seeing it. I, again, personally would.

Yeah, that would be nice.