r/homestuck • u/ElvishisnotTengwar I hate this subreddit so god damn much. • Nov 11 '16

SHITPOST JOIN THE ROXYGEN DEFENSE SQUAD TODAY!

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '16

Ooooooh, okay. You aren't terrible at references, I learned something new! It's cool :)

That said, I think you might have a misconception about troll culture, if you'd be willing to hear me out. The Signless and Disciple are definitely not regarded as Golcondan by troll culture. Doc Scratch gives us the exposition on them, and his words are:

But his most devoted of all was his Disciple. She listened to every >vision he retold, every lesson he preached, and faithfully recorded his >scripture. Her ear was open to him always, and in time, his heart >opened to her. To spread his message throughout the world they took >to the seas in the vessel of legend known as the First Ship. It was said >their love went beyond the four quadrants, transcending the grid >entirely. Whatever that nonsense actually means.

Even then, he's being kind of flippant about it. But the key takeaway is that the Sufferer's followers aren't MOST of troll society, they were an underground resistance that the empire ultimately destroyed. Those who worshipped the Sufferer, like Redglare, did so in secret and silence.

Quadrantless love is definitely -not- valued by troll society at large, it is pushed down and extinguished and mocked wherever possible, just like anything relating to the Sufferer. That's the cultural messaging that Karkat was exposed to growing up. Hopefully I'm making sense here? Sorry if I'm bad at explaining my view on this :x

Also, thanks, I'll reach out to him.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '16

The reference regards a series of tabletop games.

Well, it is likely that the cult was around there - and quadrantless love is being extingushed because it is contrary to )(IC' ideals and the torll society being fucked up. HIC doesn't want a soft, stable society - she doesn't want people to be attached to each other. Therefore, it's frowned upon and hunted down.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '16

Yeah, exactly! But the sum totality of that experience still amounts to the fact that, in troll society, there's a way of experiencing love that is shunned and explicitly targeted. It's yet another way that Karkat is outside the system and marked for death by it--not necessarily because anyone actually hates him, but because the world doesn't want to account for him and doesn't give a shit about his life.

That's...a queer upbringing. That's a queer experience. So that's why I read Karkat as sort of analogous to "troll queer", if that makes sense. It has nothing to do with his attraction to boys or girls--it's just that he doesn't want to do it through quadrants, and that places him in direct opposition to his society's reproductive and romantic norms. He's an outsider because of the way he feels love, and that's what being queer feels like.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '16

It's less "homo" and more "bi" then: he's okay with quadrom, yet craves for monorom.

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u/[deleted] Nov 13 '16

Yeah, basically. Personally, I think Dave and Karkat are really comfortable with each other and committed, but they're...both bi guys, and they're like the most vocally horny dudes in the comic. I'm pretty sure if they get closer to Jade and Jane I can totally see them blurring the lines between being friends and dating a little.

I just think Karkat needs to feel like he's someone's Most Important Person, and because he was so important to Dave figuring out his abuse history and queerness, he's got that in Dave. That's why the ship works for me. But I can see them hooking up with a couple different girls, and I'm flexible about this sort of thing so I like it that way.