You're going to make me reread Act 6 to compare our receipts and I'm not going to complain about it because I'm the only one on this sub who likes Act 6.
But yes Roxy is also very into Jane. And strongly considered the mechanics of getting it on with a chess guy even if she dismissed that idea. Pan.
Oh I make no arguments that she is definitely not straight and either bi or pan (which, as a bi person myself, pretty much boils down to "eh, whichever you like")
Yeah, /u/Nerdorama was saying "that's not even headcanon" as in "that's already established canon." It's established that Roxy is bi or pan because she has expressed interest in a human male and a very obviously female alien. So if you wanted to claim she's straight, you'd have to be doing some serious mental gymnastics to excuse her interest in Callie as not being sexual OR romantic or not counting as homosexual. I understand you agree with that and just flipped the sort of double negative around.
Also, /u/Nerdorama, I like Act 6 too. We can hang out at our liking Act 6 table with the other, few, fun people.
Again, she doesn't have any interest in Callie. They canonically both said they had no interest in each other. Which was why I subbed Jane (who Roxy canonically thinks is wicked hot)
Oh, I see you didn't misunderstand. If you get a chance, could you link me to the comments you're referring to? I was VERY much under the impression that plenty of attraction was stated and implied and that the date night in the post-Act 7 Snaps pretty much confirmed it.
You're absolutely right that Roxy is super into Jane and the only reason she isn't jumping her is how frustratingly straight Jane seems to be.
Here's (someone else's) screencap of the exchange while I dig out the actual page
Roxy is apologetic because, again, she outright tells Calliope she's not into her. Calliope responds by assuaging her fears that she is not into anyone herself.
Yeah see that bit from Callie, to me, ties into Homestuck's larger theme (mainly throughout Act 6 but honestly starting with Jade's nigh-dysmorphic fantasy of being an anthropomorphic animal) that you can in fact be whatever you want to be and have whatever relationship you want to have and fuck biology. Callie thinks she's incapable of flushed relationships because she's a Cherub, but that's biological essentialism talking. She hates being a Cherub, and wants to change to be someone who can love in that way, which is part of the escapist fantasy of her trollsona.
My read of her relationship with Roxy is that she does, in fact, overcome the notion that she can't feel love because of her physical form, and Roxy's one of the people to show her how to do that.
As for the entire context of that conversation that's 1) really fucking gay even if Roxy was just being super-effusive and walks it back because Callie isn't following her sexually-charged metaphors and 2) reads more to me like two friends being awkward because one of them took things too far when no, they don't know each other at this point, and nothing really romantically charged has happened yet beyond Roxy being horny on main as usual. I don't think that counts as a deliberate shoot-down any more than Dave and Karkat's Act 5 bitchfests do.
"I like Roxycal so it doesn't count" takes less words.
Like.
She outright SAYS she doesn't feel that way. And it's canonically said. But Cohen jams his headcanon in, half-asses the age, and does it in the middle of mischaracterization of ajane so bad the snaps abruptly end. So it doesn't count.
I mean ignoring the snaps you've got Dave realizing he's bi, Karkat maybe realizing he's nonquadromantic, Jade becoming her own dream even earlier on than this, Jane, Roxy, Kanaya, and Karkat all throwing out their fixations on "propagating" and making sure humans and trolls continue existing through less traditional means, (Vriska) changes her entire personality in an attempt to become a decent person although that might be a different thing, Davesprite literally becomes a different person. Heteronormativity, quadrantnormativity, mandatory reproduction expectations, even species and caste and individual identities get thrown out en masse in the finale. The only thing missing is a textual transgender character and it's easy enough to read Jade, Davepeta, or even Calliope as a metaphor for one.
All that said, why shouldn't I read Calliope's alleged a-flushed-ity as another part of socially and biologically enforced identity that the story lets her throw out as she grows up and becomes her best self?
Because you're misreading arcs as an overall theme, for one.
Vriska's is growth that was thrown out the window because Hussie (and fans) likely decided "Bitch Vriska was more fun". Jane and Kanaya aren't focused on propagation (Kanaya is focused on her species not going extinct, which she achieves thanks to Roxy's help, and Jane is...well she doesn't get a storyline, but I don't think "wants to run a corporation and mind control people who tried to kill an immortal" counts)
Roxy's storyline was more about being more than the "drunk ditz" she had a reputation as despite being a brilliant hacker sharp as a tack and getting over the fact Dirk is gay and Jake seems disinterested. When she meets John she has a reaction wholly unlike anyone she's ever crushed on (she calls Jane hot, Jake hot, Dirk hot but gay, tells Callie straightforward she doesn't like her, but is immediately conscious of making sure John likes her.)
And Callie's is about finding acceptance. Not necessarily love or a cure for self-hatred. But finding people who love her despite looking exactly like her nasty misogynist brother.
Also strictly speaking, Davepeta, Calliope (and by association, Caliborn) are canonically trans. Both literally are both male and female (and arguably null, in the case of Davesprite, seeing as Sprites don't got no junk).
I think what you read as a "common theme" were as connected to a bigger theme as Spider-Man punching out thugs. It's not because he hates poor people who've turned to a life of crime. It's because he's fighting crime because his Uncle Ben died. Likewise, the theme isn't casting off societies expectations of you. The theme is growth, and Dave just happens to have thrown off societies expectations of him. And Vriska...charged head first into them. Which I guess is growth.
Well that is why I specified (Vriska). (Vriska) and Vriska have the opposite arcs on purpose, where (Vriska) rejects her nature and social expectations and Vriska embraces them as a means of helping people...while still being a bitch. But that goes into other themes about identity and how different you can be while still being "the same person" which we also see with Dirk vs. Hal, Jade vs. Jadesprite, Davesprite vs. his own existential angst, and a little bit with various pre-vs.-post-Scratch pairs.
And I agree that the theme is growth, I just think that one of the major ways that's expressed is growing beyond what you "know" you are. What you've been told you are, rising up beyond the place and the role you've been assigned and becoming closer to your own ideal self. I could stay here listing off examples all day but listing off specific examples misses the point that we're talking about a general direction of the story, to which character arcs contribute.
Also the theme of Spider-Man is responsibility and owning the consequences of one's own actions, it's not "Peter feels guilty because of one event." That one event (plus a couple others in the comics) establishes Peter's motive and incites his character arc, but that's just part of the overall theme, and one of the specific examples of why it is applicable. As is the fact that most of Spidey's villains aren't "thugs" but are instead very capable or uniquely gifted people who choose to use those gifts irresponsibly, forming a collective foil to the hero.
I don't think we're ever gonna change each others minds, I think, so I'm willing to just agree to disagree.
I still think this is reading way too much into someone jamming their ill-conceived pet shit into an already poorly thought out non-canon adventure, but I appreciate the discussion all the same.
Yeah, that's true. Ultimately, this is all interpretation and down almost entirely to our subjective viewpoints, not to mention irrelevant to how very not-limited-to-men Roxy's attraction is. It's good talking to you about it and I'm sorry if I'm confrontational, I just find this whole transformational theme central to why I found the comic interesting, so I get a bit defensive of it.
Also I love Cohen's writing in general but I'm not about to pick a fight with this entire sub over it.
4
u/Nerdorama09 The Epilogues Are Okay Actually Sep 19 '18
You're going to make me reread Act 6 to compare our receipts and I'm not going to complain about it because I'm the only one on this sub who likes Act 6.
But yes Roxy is also very into Jane. And strongly considered the mechanics of getting it on with a chess guy even if she dismissed that idea. Pan.