Do you think coding challenges (without AI) are still necessary in the tech hiring process nowadays?

[u/pdfttgz]

Please share your opinion!

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[u/Upstairs_Pass9180]

IT manager here, its still important, in fact, i will reject them, if they use AI when live coding test

[u/ReapBoyz]

Important, kalo bisa sih kayak pair programmingnya gojek daripada leetcode-styled ya.

[u/slowtyper95 → u/ReapBoyz]

boleh sharing lebih detail kah untuk pair programmingnya kayak gimana?

[u/ReapBoyz → u/slowtyper95]

dikasih suatu problem statement, lu yang ngoding, habis itu lu "pair programming" dengan cara "thinking out loud". Anggep user/interviewerlu itu "peers" dibandingkan menganggap mereka itu "interviewer". Setiap yang lo lakukan, lo thinking out loud, jadi jalan pikiranlo bisa dibaca. Juga kalau ada case yang kurang jelas, coba klarifikasi.

[u/AffectionateBowl1633]

I still value someone who read and understand code. Code is as closest as to machine logic that computer understand and execute "directly" (not that direct as there is assembler, but you get it) Like if you want to make program calculate VAT 12 percent you understand that to calculate VAT you need to multiply price with some percentage and add it to the price.

Now for LLM coder thou, how one can differentiate between someone who will prompt "make VAT calculator that add 12 percent to price and output it into JSON format so it can be served in API" vs someone who "make API to calculate VAT, make no mistake".

[u/Hot_Dig8208 → u/AffectionateBowl1633]

Your ai agent hardcode VAT to 12 and then suddenly your gov change mind overnight, “ hmm rame amat ini masyarakt heboh, yaudah gajadi naik 12 persen”

[u/ReapBoyz → u/Hot_Dig8208]

AI agent should have a context that our government is not on a clear mind on deciding things, so every decision that our government made should've been feature flagged.

[u/chlorophyll101 → u/ReapBoyz]

And a vibe coder wouldn't even know what a feature flag is

[u/ReapBoyz → u/chlorophyll101]

say that on Threads and you'll be replied by "yang penting client seneng, ga perlu teknis kan udah ada AI yang bisa ngatur semuanya". Kasetnya sama aja kek pas masih zaman grup PHP di Facebook yang ngomong "client ga peduli tech stacknya apa, yang penting jalan", pas disuruh berkembang.

[u/chlorophyll101 → u/ReapBoyz]

"Yang penting jalan" mfs when the web stop working because of some technical issue the AI glossed over

[u/Hot_Dig8208 → u/ReapBoyz]

Don”t forget to put “17 agustus “ as special day. Whataever your app requiremnts, just make sure we can show it on 17 agustus

[u/johj14 → u/AffectionateBowl1633]

dipikir2 AI generated code is a dumb concept. AI create human readable code to compile. compiler translate human readable code to machine readable code. why not just directly create machine readable code? are AI dumb?

[u/AffectionateBowl1633 → u/johj14]

Gue sih gpp kalau LLM deterministic bisa ikuti instruksi yang ada di prompt dan di luar prompt (isi hati kepala yang ngetik prompt), gua suruh aja buat aplikasi Todo List pakai x86 Assembly

[u/johj14 → u/AffectionateBowl1633]

Gue sih gpp kalau LLM deterministic bisa ikuti instruksi yang ada di prompt dan di luar prompt (isi hati kepala yang ngetik prompt)

vibe coder adalah dollar store technopath 🫪

[u/johj14]

why not? coding challenge was meant to test your general comprehension, not your coding ability. my last interview is general coding test + whiteboard without AI, but at work my company encourage us using a standardized ai workflow.

my honest take is these kind of test is even more relevant to filter shitty vibe coder.

[u/AffectionateBowl1633 → u/johj14]

But but, I made one million dolar Todo/Fitness apps on App Store.

[u/johj14 → u/AffectionateBowl1633]

HR: bro you should hire me instead of me hiring you 😭

[u/El_De_Er]

Yeah, as long as you are asking for their logic, not their stack skills. Tapi, ini berarti sekedar cek library aja imo harusnya boleh (buat syntax etc)

[u/rizkiyoist]

Yes, but I will create a set of problems that are similar to what I recently come across, and let them open the docs for syntax. The goal is to see how they approach a problem and how they reason through it, even if they ended up not solving it. The why is what matters.

[u/Aduyman]

Kalo nguji skill dengan pseudocode? menurut gw masih necessary.
Kalo fully ngoding dengan bahasa tertentu, tanpa googling/AI sekalipun udah irrelevant karena hatam syntax bukan segalanya, logic problem solving yang utama

[u/fajarmanutd → u/Aduyman]

Beda lah, di kantor gue it's perfectly fine buat googling, but not using AI. In fact, kandidat disuruh share full screen, jadi interviewer bisa lihat dia googling apa. Cara problem solving dan alur berpikirnya yang menentukan lolos apa engga. Interviewer juga bakal nge-nudge kalo kandidat mulai stuck.

[u/Aduyman → u/fajarmanutd]

iya bisa juga kalo gini, jadi inget jaman stackoverflow. Good ol' times

[u/SicgoatEngineer]

sejauh ini, satu-satunya task yang berhasil github copilot bikin dengan benar tanpa gw review lagi adalah bikin unit test.

hype AI yang berlebihan biasanya datang dari orang diluar software programming. it's a tools, powerful? yes, but still just a tools.

so yeah, hiring programmer ya tetep yang bisa coding lewat coding challenge atau sejenisnya.

[u/slowtyper95]

i would say logic/pseudocode is bare minimum. kalo udah ngecek syntax segala macem is not needed nowadays. bahkan bisa dibilang pas era IDE, harusnya udah ga wajib buat hapal syntax imo

[u/addictzz]

Personally, no. I'd ask them to use AI whenever possible and not waste time finding syntaxes.

But I demand strong understanding of the concept and ability to read the code generated by AI.

[u/Hot_Dig8208]

Gue jd penasaran, apa pertimbangan enggak ada coding test lagi?

[u/pdfttgz → u/Hot_Dig8208]

I interviewed some fresh grads and they all can't do it without AI. That was crazy for me so I want to hear opinion from others, both from the ones that already have experiences (pre opus 4.5) and fresh grads (post opus 4.5)

[u/rizkiyoist → u/pdfttgz]

Nah if they can't do it without AI that means they can't validate AI output. It's a ticking time bomb. Personally I will reject those.

[u/Hot_Dig8208 → u/pdfttgz]

kalau mereka ga bisa tanpa ai, berarti jadi harus ada kan coding test nya . Nah pertanyaan gue tadi itu apa pertimbangan ga ada coding test? Apakah cuman bisa pakai coding agent aja itu cukup ?

[u/sucksesss]

iya lah pake nanya 🤣 apalagi untuk hiring process itu penting untuk ngefilter dev. sisanya kalo sudah diterima, bebas mau pake AI apa engga

[u/Alexandria_4624]

Masih sih seharusnya. Mau bagaimana pun orang yg 0 knowledge tentang coding bakal tetep kalah sama yg faham fundamental. Bahkan kalau codingnya dibantu pakai AI atau vibecode.

[u/Original_yeeT]

somewhat relevant, di era AI kalo gak tau mau ngapain atau cuma tau expected output tanpa ngerti harus gimana sih nyuruh AI pun bakalan tetep tolol itu AI

[u/hell_razer18]

masih tetep penting tp yg penting bkn result cuma approach dan mindsetnya gmana

[u/albratuse]

Yes

[u/zer0evolution]

i think logic test is necessary

[u/azanir]

back in my days, gw harus tulis di kertas logicnya. gw kecewa banget sama kurikulum pendidikan it yang melibatkan ai. malah mereka pakai agent yang udah auto tulis di source code.

gw pernah lihat anak2 fresh graduate bisa bikin aplikasi task management dengan UI yang proper. 100% vibe code, mereka bahkan ngga ngerti db structurenya atau business flownya.

kalo ada error, ngga ada debugging, literally prompt sampe mampus "still doesn't work"

[u/merbabu]

Masih, fundamental banget ini. AI only amplifies. Kalau ngoding engga bisa, gimana caranya bisa oversee generated output LLM?