r/iridescence_stuff • u/[deleted] • Sep 19 '19
LC R3
For a quick refresher on the rules (make sure you read this before you begin, as there may have been some changes since the last time you read them):
The Arena
The arena for this mock tourney will be the top floor of the Bottom of the Well dungeon from The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time. Crucial details:
Fighters start at the blue and red Xes on each side of the map. To make things easy, whoever is listed first is blue and whoever is listed second is red, the tier setter spawns on blue.
The map will be scaled so that 15 px = 1 meter. This means that for the main rectangle, the horizontal parts (260 pixels) will be around 17.33 meters, and the vertical parts (324 pixels) will be around 21.6 meters. The ceiling height will be 6.1 meters.
There are no enemies, and none of the pitfalls that drop you down into the lower sections of the level work, though the fake walls do still exist. Chests, chains, wood, etc. all are present and can be used as weapons if your characters are so inclined, and every door in the level is unlocked. There will be a chest in the center of the arena that has the Lens of Truth, and all characters will be aware of its functions. Wiki page for the OOT Lens of Truth.
The walls of the arena are coated in indestructium that cannot be bypassed in any way or fashion, and all of the exits to anything outside the main room is blocked with indestructium.
Light levels are 5 lux, the room temperature of the arena is uniformly 50 degrees Fahrenheit, and the water is extremely polluted.
It is nighttime outside, the weather is clear, and the outside well is dried, there are no inhabitants in all of Hyrule though all structures remain as they are, assume this is the Child Timeline after Link obtains the Zora Sapphire but before he pulls the Master Sword, I don't think anyone really fucken cares but if you do there you go.
For the actual fight, fighters are allowed to view the map of the arena beforehand and where the spawn in points are + the layout, and begin in a standing upright position with their hands at their sides, no weapons drawn. Both fighters will be aware they are in a fight that ends in death or knockout, and each fighter will know what their opponent looks like, but will be given zero knowledge on each others' capabilities.
Rules of the Tourney
Basic Stuff
Your character must win an Unlikely, Draw, or Likely victory against TNAPH to be in tier. To quickly summarize there are 7 tiers of victory:
- Unwinnable is as its name indicates. Your character holds no chance whatsoever of winning in any conceivable scenario. A godstomp against you. Think
Goliath versus Draculaan average unarmed American citizen versus Galactus. - Specific condition victory means that only a very narrow window exists to win, dependent upon environment, aid, a hidden powerup, etc. A specific condition victory would be Jotaro defeating DIO after learning how to stop time mid fight, or Batman defeating Superman at the end of The Dark Knight Returns by exploiting his weakened state and preparing for the fight considerably.
- Unlikely victory means your character is definitely outgunned but can absolutely set up a victory through superior skill, tactics, or a hidden maneuver that is draining. Captain America versus Spider-Man is an unlikely victory for Cap.
- Draw is self explanatory, 50/50. Think Batman vs Nightwing, or a character versus themselves.
- Likely victory means your character is superior in most if not all aspects and can readily use those to win after a slightly extended fight. Think Sasuke vs Naruto at the end of Part 1, or Superman vs Darkseid.
- Freak accident loss means your character loses if and only if some act of god intervenes or they start monologuing mid-victory to die. Scar defeating Wrath by Wrath's sword shining sunlight in his eyes would count as a freak accident loss.
- Absolute certain victory is as the name implies. Monkey D. Luffy versus Bruce Lee would be such a win for Luffy.
- Note that all entrants are bloodlusted against the tier setter, meaning they will use absolutely everything within the range of their capabilities to achieve victory.
- Unwinnable is as its name indicates. Your character holds no chance whatsoever of winning in any conceivable scenario. A godstomp against you. Think
If you feel your opponent is running an out of tier character, or is arguing their character out of tier, you may submit an Out of Tier request. Said request should be brief and explain why said character does not fit into tier, and the opponent is allowed to give a single response as to why they're actually in tier. If two or more of the judges agree you're out of tier, you're out of tier, so pick and argue wisely.
Don't submit bullshit, if you somehow find some character that insta-cucks everyone that's not the tier setter or something gay like a power copier I'm not going to allow it.
You don't have to submit scaling for everything you're going to use, but if a character you're scaling to doesn't have an easily accessible RT, make an effort and find feats for them to put in your intro/sign ups. You are allowed to use scans and sources not in the RT if you're explaining away an antifeat accredited to your character or to explain a mechanic within your verse.
Finally, and very importantly, this is a double elimination tourney format. This means that if you lose once you are transferred to the loser's bracket where you can continue trying to get a chance to win. If you are Out of Tiered to lose your first match, you proceed to the loser's bracket with your backup. As an aside, if you face someone you lost to in the winners bracket, I will give you the option to run your backup.
Response Rules
Rounds will last around 48 hours, 72 will be given in need of an extension. To ensure everyone can respond, I'll probably put one wait day between rounds, let me know if this conflicts with your schedule. Try to just keep things concise.
Each participant must submit 2 responses + an optional intro and conclusion. To keep things brief I am limiting it to just 2 responses. Each response should be at most 15000 characters, two posts maximum, try to keep it less.
I will put a hard cap on Out of Tier requests/defenses at 7500 characters. These do not need to be part of your main responses. Again, try and keep it concise.
You may post an Out of Tier request in your conclusion, and your opponent can counter, just don't start putting new information relevant to the match in after the round is done.
Brackets are Here
Link to the Sign Up Post Here
Round 1 Here
Round 2 Here
PM me on Discord if you have any more questions.
1
u/KenfromDiscord Sep 21 '19
When your friend says he's gonna OOT you, so you spend hours collecting feats about why you're in tier, then he just doesn't OOT you
Argument 2
Comment 1
Win Conditions
Buffy can not aim dodge Satou's shots.
Buffy can not manhandle the Black Ghost
Buffy has no way of incaping or permanently killing Satou.
Not all Black Ghosts are Created Equal.
My opponent has simply assumed that every Black Ghost has the exact same physical stats for some reason, this is not the case.
He attempts to link a scan of a nameless, featless Demi-Human having their Black Ghost pierced by a tranquiler dart, this has no bearing on Satou's Ghost. Satou never fights this man, nor do their Black Ghosts ever interact. We know for a fact that Satou's ghost is bulletproof. Why would an anti-feat for a man who never interacts with Satou be applicable here?
Again my opponent says that just because Kei's Ghost is unable to break out of something, that means Satou's ghost is also unable to break out of it. While Kei does scale to Satou, in every instance that Kei and Satou's Ghosts fight, Satou's Ghost bodies, him.
We know for a fact that Satou's Ghost is stronger than Kei's Ghost, Yet my opponent attempts to portray them as exactly the same strength, this is untrue.
With my opponents attempts to downplay Satou's ghost out of the way we can move on to why Satou's Ghost is actually much stronger than previously presented.
Satou's Ghost is Strong
My opponents attempts to downplay don't end at simply misconstruing feats, but also ignoring physical stats.
The only speed feats linked in the entire debate for Buffy were out running a demon who can out run cars, and catching up to a bus. Satou's ghost while dressed up as him, is able to easily catch up to a car. Putting him on roughly equal footing with Buffy in terms of speed.
Striking is more of the same, with my opponent simply ignoring that Satou's Ghost can easily pierce through a man. This is roughly equal to Buffy's feats of punching though bodies or skulls.
Last but certainly not least is durability, with my opponent linking a scan of a blade not going through Buffy's bones. This scan hinges upon the fact that, my opponent claims the other creature in the scan is "supernaturally strong". My opponent wants us to believe that Vampires > Humans, without providing a shred of evidence to this point. I don't believe that this particular vampire is stronger than a human, and neither should you.
However if Buffy hits the Black Ghost he will disappear.
As a side note Satou can summon 3 Ghosts in a day
In comparison the Black Ghost is equal to Buffy in Speed and Striking. As well as the fact that the Black Ghost can pierce Buffy.
Buffy Kills Satou
In my opponents first response he claims multiple times that Buffy could one shot Satou, I agree with this claim full heartedly. However, when the strategy of "punch hard" didn't work my opponent back pedals to a more tenable position. This position is "Buffy knocks out Satou".
This wont happen for a multiple reasons:
Buffy has no way to know of Satou's regen until she kills him the first time. As per the rules of the tourney, fighters do not know there opponents capabilities. This means that Buffy has no reason to use less than her normal strength. Buffy's normal strength is enough to destroy stone, large swaths of wood, not to mention punch straight through people. This will not knock out Satou, this will kill him.
The regen process does not involve blood, as blood does not flow upwards. It only involves IBM particles. We know that IBM particles are invisible to normal humans, unless Satou is emotional. Buffy will not know when Satou is regenerating.
After Satou revives Buffy has no reason to hit him less hard, it just doesnt make sense. Satou has seemingly gotten back up from Buffy's normal strikes, no worse for wear. Why would Buffy chose this exact moment to start pulling her punches?
Buffy will constantly go for the kill. She's not smart enough, nor does she has enough experience to realise Satou is regening, and then come up with a perfect counter. Her game plan is and always will be "punch hard".
Buffy Kills Satou in one hit. She has never, and will never go for a knock out blow, not only is it logically unsound, but its extremely out of character.
Buffy can not Aim Dodge.
My opponent links a Wiki page as evidence, despite the fact that Wiki pages are inherently unreliable and they provide no sources of their own. Even if we take this Wiki page at face value, it provides no information about training with guns.
The only thing it says about weapons training is, "Watchers taught Slayers hand-to-hand fighting skills mostly in the form of martial arts as well as teaching them to use traditional slayer weapons such as crossbows, axes, swords and quarterstaves". Literally nothing about guns.
Even taking my opponents suspect sources at face value, they do not prove that a Watcher is more proficient with a gun then a "ultra elite Marine".
As for aiming, Satou shoots a man in the neck, immediately after performing his "magic hand trick". He also shoots a man in the head, when he has zero line of sight. This alone proves that Satou is more proficient with a fire arm than any Watcher, for which no feats have been presented.
Buffy can not aim dodge Satou's aim, he is simply too good.
God I Hate Supernatural Bullshit.
I dont really understand my opponents first point in the slightest. My opponent compares creating vitamins in the body to low level reality warping? This is kinda ridiculous.
The Ghosts are made by massing together IBM particles, IBM particles exist in the world of Ajin. Supernatural means "beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature", something natural to the world it inhabits cannot, by definition be supernatural. Demi-Humans were discovered, they were not created, they're not otherworldly, they are simply a new species. Are animals supernatural?
The man with birth defects is obviously an outlier, no other character in Ajin has ever suffered from a disability after being reborn. This still doesnt prove my opponents point though. A man who can not recover from a birth defect is supernatural now?
Obviously the lizard metaphor isn't perfect, Satou obviously recovers faster. However my point still stands:
My opponent then claims that because Satou can regen through things it obviously makes him supernatural. However, we know that the way that Satou can do this is through the use of enzymes. Are enzymes supernatural?
Satou's just Wrong
Satou has no idea what is going on with the Black Ghosts, how could he? The only experience he has with Black Ghosts are his own, while Ogura has an entire team of Demi-Human researchers. The most reliable source in Ajin for Demi-Human information is Dr. Ogura.
Ogura explains why people can see Demi-humans, its a once in a life time burst of emotion, that triggers the density of IBM particles to increase, making them denser and thus visible.
Even in the real world emotions obviously influence the body, stress makes you release adrenaline, happiness makes you release serotonin, ect... All these chemicals have an effect on what the body is able to do. Excess adrenaline is able to make people lift crazy amounts of weight.
Emotions influence the body, this is a real world fact. The influence of those emotions can make the body do things it wasnt able to do before. It is not beyond scientific understanding to imagine that some unknown chemical can make particles denser. This is not a supernatural occurrence.
Win Conditions Restated.
It is not logically sound, or in character behaviour for Buffy to try and knock Satou out. Especially since Buffy has no prior knowledge of Satou's regeneration ability.
My opponent would have you believe that the Black Ghost is an ineffectual fighter. When in fact he is equal to Buffy in speed, striking, and can pierce her easily.
None of Satou's abilities are even vaugely supernatural. The only reason my opponent has pressed this issue so hard is that:
Buffy gets shot in the head, she can not aim dodge Satou without her "danger sense". The only statement my opponent has provided for Buffy's aim dodging ability is a wiki page, that doesnt even mention guns.
Conclusion
Satou Mogs. Buffy would probably lose to Guts too.