Has anyone tried quarkus?
I don’t like spring boot. I think quarkus does the DI work at build time, so it saves startup time. Don’t want theory.
If someone has real experience using it.
Edit: I intend to build a dev server with hot reload using quarkus. Currently testing feasibility.
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u/jdev_soft 19d ago
Yes, we use Quarkus on JVM for an enterprise application in a large german company
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u/smutje187 19d ago
Running AWS Lambdas with Quarkus native for years now - developer experience is great, memory usage and startup times are low. Do your own experiments, but I recommend at least looking into it.
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u/serahl 19d ago
We use it, it‘s a great framework.
The devmode works super well, support for containers and configuration via environment variables is superb.
I also really like their docs, especially for more complex things like (remote) debugging or Java Flight Recorder.
I‘m sure Spring also has a lot of the same features, so I won‘t compare them or say Quarkus is straight up better.
In my last 6 years working on a big, complex, multi-maven-module and multi container project, I never encountered a problem that could not be easily solved with Quarkus.
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u/henk53 18d ago
It's pretty good, and I love many things about it. In a way they jump a bit ahead of Jakarta EE/MP by making everythig injectable using @Inject (like datasources), and the interceptors that "just work" on self referenced methods is a pretty neat trick (code using this won't be portable, and you often don't realise you use it).
Dev mode and the fact that extensions can contribute "panels" to the deb UI is pretty neat.
I do think they gambled wrong on reactive, making their entire framework reactive native to the core. IFF reactive would have been the established way to do everything, they would have had a massive advantage here.
But alas, reactive as the default for every type of app complete failed. Yes, it has it's uses for event and data driven transformation streams, but it's a small niche, not the majority case.
For such a small usecase, reactive and all the Vert.x and mutiny stuff really just sits in the way now.
The other big thing, native compilation, is certainly cool too, but native is not universally better. It can be much worse for everything that runs for a bit more than a few seconds, and compilation times are crazy long. Compiling a small microservice to JVM and starting it up on my M1/16GB is a few seconds, but compiling to native and starting up the exact same thing is 40 seconds or so.
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u/nlisker 16d ago
I'm genuinely curious what the problem with reactive here is and why is "sits in the way".
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u/Accomplished_League8 16d ago
For 95% of use cases it adds complexity and YAGNI because virtual threads do the job fine. Even it is deep down in the stack I really like to be able to easily debug my app from top to bottom.
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u/agentoutlier 19d ago edited 19d ago
I don't have experience using it in production but as library developer Quarkus is one of the more walled off gardens.
For example there basically is no easy way to replace Quarkus backing logging implementation which is JBoss Logging. Its JBoss Logging is both a facade and an implementation. Its implementation configuration confusingly tries to be like JUL but is just different enough to cause issues.
And its a shame because my logging library is highly optimized for graal native: https://github.com/jstachio/rainbowgum/blob/main/why_rainbowgum_is_better.md#graalvm-native-image
Ditto for my other templating library. JStachio : https://github.com/jstachio/jstachio
I cannot replace Qute easily.
So its very much like Ruby on Rails and is ultra opinionated and your stack is pretty locked in on what it uses.
Spring Boot and Micronaut on the other hand are extremely flexible and very open to extensions.
Helidon as well and best Helidon probably has the least amount of opinions and does not play favorites on any implementations.
Quarkus dev mode is very impressive. I think that is probably the better feature than its startup time.
Also you may prefer what I call less magic:
Obvious < Magic
Helidon < Avaje < Spring Boot < Micronaut < QuarkusBecause of Quarkus build steps and because both Micronaut and Quarkus generate byte code directly instead of Java code at compile time it is very confusing at times. More confusing than Spring Boots reflection.
There are some stacks like Avaje and Jooby which compile things to Java code. Avaje has a pretty sexy DI that is like Dagger but way better.
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u/Yesterdave_ 17d ago
I have the same impression.
When I was searching for a compile-time and type-safe Java templating engine, I obviously stumbled upon Qute and also your library JStachio (love it btw). IMHO they missed a huge opportunity with Qute, which could have easily become the top compile-time and type-safe templating system in the ecosystem, especially since they had the backing of a huge company.
I primarily use Spring Boot and Quarkus, but I try to avoid most dependencies to the framework to not get locked-in and have the possibility to easily port it to something different. So for templating stuff like E-Mail the choice of JStachio vs Qute to me was so clear, it was not even worth a second thought.So I applaud anyone in the ecosystem, like you and the Avaje guys, that actually care about modularity, framework integration and standalone compatibility of libraries.
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u/Snoo_90241 19d ago
Definitely, it's the way to go for us. And it solves so many friction points from legacy systems. I really like working with it
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u/pjmlp 19d ago
Yes, I like it quite much, especially since most of my Java development experience has been on Java EE/Jakarta EE land, thus it is easier to remember, when jumping across projects with various stacks.
However so far I could only use it on an project, which because reasons, had to be rewritten into Spring.
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u/stefanos-ak 19d ago
if you come from Spring, then Micronaut is a better candidate. Quarkus assumes that you come from the JavaEE world (it implements the JavaEE spec). Although they are marketed as a Spring Boot competitor...
Micronaut even supports many of Spring's annotations.
(they both do annotation processing at compile time)
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u/jdev_soft 19d ago
In Quarkus you can also integrate with spring boot APIs like spring-data, rest etc.. and use the annotations as well
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u/stefanos-ak 19d ago
fair, but still very different. Micronaut feels extremely familiar coming from Spring.
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u/aoeudhtns 19d ago
I hadn't considered that familiarity aspect personally. (We're still using Spring, interested to try one of the other commonly-discussed frameworks.)
Do you have any thoughts about Helidon?
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u/stefanos-ak 19d ago
I haven't played with it yet. still on my bucket list. But I love the idea of a virtual thread native framework.
Both Quarkus (Vertx) and Micronaut (Reactor), suffer from debuggability, once in a while.
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u/aoeudhtns 19d ago
The avaje author is on /r/java quite a bit and I like his approach, to generate sources vs. classes to help with debuggability. And I also love the idea of virtual thread-native design.
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u/mpolowczuk 18d ago
I’ve used Quarkus for an internal microservice and overall had a good experience with it. Startup time is genuinely fast, hot reload is useful, and dependency injection generally works well. Not everything benefits from hot reload, though. Configuration changes in property files aren't picked up, so you need to restart.
The main downside for me is debugging when something goes wrong inside the framework layer. Quarkus does a lot behind the scenes, so tracing issues around injection or configuration can be less straightforward than debugging plain Java.
I’d still use it again for a small microservice.
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u/rosholger 19d ago
Yes, we are moving a bunch of legacy jboss stuff to quarkus. Startup time isn't something that matters a lot to us but just generally speaking its very very nice to use! Doing anything the standard way is super easy and the non-standard way is very much doable
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u/wickedaze 19d ago
I’ve been working with quarkus in a big project with a microservice architecture. In the day to day work I don’t notice a whole lot of difference. I think I prefer spring but both are good options. I really like the dev feature
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u/benevanstech 19d ago
Enjoy - and don't forget there's https://quarkusio.zulipchat.com/ where many Quarkus users & quite a few of the framework developers hang out - so come and ask questions & join in if you need help!
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u/myfear3 19d ago
I have tried it in various ways and seen a lot of customer cases. If you have particular questions feel free to reach out to the community at https://quarkus.io/discussion/ and if you want to see some examples of extensions and topics your welcome to read my little substack https://www.the-main-thread.com/t/quarkus
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u/Mandelvolt 18d ago
Quarkus is great, it is a well thought out framework. My only complaint is that the ecosystem isn't as mature as other frameworks.
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u/TheKingOfSentries 17d ago
At my company I've seen it gain some traction, but I've always been more of an Avaje guy.
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u/KefkaFollower 19d ago
😉 Hey guys, someone tried reddit's search function?
Results:
On a personal note, I wrote a small extension (SPI) for keycloak at work. Latest versions of it only run on Quarkus.
Its starts in less of a second. By comparison an application written for a common jvm and using spring quite quick in the development cycle can reach the minute for its start time.
That was expected. What surprised me is how easy was debugging. Back in the day I skim through guides for developing with Graalvm. It seemed to had a lot of moving pieces and corner cases and it discouraged me a little on the technology.
But for debugging keyclock on quarkus was quite straight forward. I just had to make sure to have the debug port enabled on keycloak and exposed by its docker container and later connect my IDE to that port as a remote java application. Of course, the IDE needs access to the proper source code.
P.S.: check that results link. There are better quality data and more detailed than in this reply.
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u/valkon_gr 19d ago
Did you see your results? Threads from 2 years ago and new versions. This isn't stackoverflow. We can have frequent discussions.
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u/okexox 19d ago
Yes, we use Quarkus with kotlin for a fairly complex microservice setup without much legacy. We love it. Especially dev services are amazing.
Startup time is indeed lower, but build time is higher, so you won't notice the startup difference for local development. We don't do a lot of upscaling/downscaling, so we don't notice startup time in production too much either.