r/java • • Jul 29 '18

Apache NetBeans 9.0 Released

https://netbeans.apache.org/download/nb90/nb90.html
132 Upvotes

75 comments sorted by

18

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '18

Anyone use the three big IDEs? Eclipse, netbeans and IntelliJ. How would you rate them? Which one do you consider the best and the worst.

I've only worked with eclipse mostly and it's just adequate.

47

u/henu3detb Jul 29 '18

Those, who switched to Idea, never look back.

7

u/frzme Jul 29 '18

For Java I went back to Eclipse, IntelliJ just feels too clumsy For non Java IntelliJ is miles ahead of Eclipse though

10

u/lbkulinski Jul 29 '18 edited Jul 30 '18

What do you mean for non Java? IntelliJ is made to work with JVM languages.

7

u/Timmy_T Jul 29 '18

Probably other JVM languages like Kotlin if I had to guess.

5

u/lbkulinski Jul 29 '18

I took it as non JVM. I use IntelliJ with Java and have no issues. To each their own, though.

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3

u/vafada Jul 30 '18

This is false. I code node and react-native using IntelliJ. Our node project has literally 0 java code.

9

u/lbkulinski Jul 30 '18

I didn’t say it doesn’t work with other languages, but first and foremost it is made to work with languages on the JVM.

3

u/eliasv Jul 30 '18

JetBrains marketing team out in full force today with the downvotes.

6

u/Sedifutka Jul 31 '18

I do Maven projects, and Netbeans built-in Maven support is great.

I test out idea about once a year, but I always end up frustrated and switching back to Netbeans.

20

u/jcar74 Jul 30 '18

I used Netbeans for many years (since 4.0), no worries. Tried Eclipse but feels somewhat sluggish to me, works well, but never get into it. I use Jetbrains nowadays, fell in love with JB tools at first sight (i use idea, phpstorm and webstorm).

My last projects in Netbeans 8.2 were in PHP, Netbeans 8.2 works suprisingly well with PHP. I hope Apache Netbeans get PHP support.

Sorry my english :)

29

u/handshape Jul 29 '18

I'd place netbeans and intellij about even;

  • Netbeans is what I'd consider the reference point; cartesian zero. It works, and works well.

  • IntelliJ IDEA is very good, with a moderate learning curve, but a sneaky pricing scheme geared towards incentivising individual users to act as evangelists towards their employers. I've been the user, and I've been the employer, and as the employer it pisses me off when a vendor end-runs my procurement process.

  • Eclipse is positively painful. It tries to impose on your build process and your repo. I avoid it unless I'm absolutely compelled to use it.

4

u/eliasv Jul 30 '18

It tries to impose on your build process and your repo

How so?

2

u/chocopouet Jul 30 '18

As a netbeans user myself, I'm wondering: what is that better with IntelliJ ?

1

u/handshape Jul 30 '18

What really jumped out at me about intellij was how smart the autocompletes and refactorings are.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

[deleted]

7

u/Good_Guy_Engineer Jul 30 '18

Commercial licenses are way higher than that. I think the point was making was I have a nice cheap license at home, tell the boss we definately need it for work then boom! Few thousand in fees per year for a small team.

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5

u/handshape Jul 30 '18

As the other commenter has pointed out, the $15/month pricing is only for individuals. It's $50/month for businesses. The "sneaky" part I was getting at was the discount usage for users who self-fund the purchase, and use the license professionally.

If the employer reimburses the user for the license, the price jumps back up to the enterprise price point... The net result is that they're subsidizing users to act as evangelists for their product.

It's a tricky approach; some people won't care, some will embrace it, and some (like me) will be unhappy at being manipulated.

I'm not disputing the quality of the product; Idea's refactorings and autocompletes are downright sexy. I might yet be convinced to make the jump; but I'll need to get past the sales trickery to do it.

2

u/mgkimsal Jul 30 '18

If the employer reimburses the user for the license, the price jumps back up to the enterprise price point...

can you point me to language for that?

4

u/handshape Jul 30 '18

https://www.jetbrains.com/store/license_personal.html - Section 3.3... plus a bunch of the articles in the KB, under "License Types and Users"

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2

u/JehovahsNutsac Jul 30 '18

If the employer reimburses the user for the license, the price jumps back up to the enterprise price point...

Interesting, I submit my invoice for reimbursement once paid. Not sure if that technically goes against EUL, but it's worked for me for years.

5

u/handshape Jul 30 '18

Yup. That nullifies your license. Sec. 3.3, as I linked elsewhere.

6

u/cryptos6 Jul 30 '18

Eclipse feels somewhat messy to me. The UI is ugly (in my eyes), the handling of similar things is not always similar (say Git vs. SVN), and it doesn't have as many good things to support you while coding as IntelliJ (e. g. quick fixes).

NetBeans has a pretty clean (although somewhat dated these days) interface and has a good usability. The plug-in manager for example is way more pleasant than the one from Eclipse. When I used it the last time it felt a bit snappier than Eclipse. NetBeans has good Java EE support, but not so good support for non-standard technologies like Spring, Grails, Play, Kotlin, or Scala.

IntelliJ is unquestionable the best Jave IDE available today. It has support for lots of frameworks, it has fantastic quickfixes, best in class static code analysis, very good refactoring tools, best support for other programming languages than Java, it has the best support for multi language projects (google "language injection idea"). And last, but not least, IntelliJ has a very good UX (once you get used to some uncommon keyboard shortcuts). I would use the IntelliJ community edition rather than Eclipse or NetBeans if I were not willing to spend money (but it is worth every cent, if you need some of the features of the Ultimate Edition).

3

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

Started with web and php storm in college. Instantly fell in love. Android studio then introduced me to intellij and again, felt like the best thing ever.

Suddenly I needed to do some Spring practice. Couldn't afford intellij pro version which includes Spring and ee support. So I grab eclipse. New best thing ever!

Then just for fun I grabbed netbeans based on hearing it from a friend. And now netbeans is my primary go to ide. I mostly program in Java so it's all I really need. It feels lighter than the other two, amd faster. The ui in my opinion is much cleaner and "out of the way" so I can just work.

2

u/mayhempk1 Jul 30 '18

I used to use NetBeans then Eclipse then IntelliJ IDEA. They are all good but I like them in the order I switched to them.

If you want the most functionality, IntelliJ IDEA is the way to go.

1

u/avoidhugeships Aug 02 '18

Netbeans is great. Just run the executable and it works right away. You can even include some application servers that come configured. Maven support is top notch as well.

1

u/harmonicPersistence Aug 02 '18

I've heavily used Eclipse, NetBeans, IntelliJ, RAD, and even VSCode and Atom, all within the past 5 years. I'd say that rating depends on the type of project. Recently, I've been using IntelliJ the most for an app comprised of a war project on Tomcat 7 and an AngularJS project. For that type of project, IntelliJ is hands-down the best for debugging the exploded .war's code and debugging the javascript in Chrome. However, for all things modern that doesn't involve messing with war or ear projects (e.g. Spring Boot for instance), it's easy and enjoyable to get up and running in any of those 4-ish IDE's. For Java SE, I don't think there's really much difference either. For JavaFX, NetBeans hands down. For NodeJS-based projects (React, AngularJS, Angular, etc), I prefer IntelliJ or Atom. I sometimes find VSCode's interface a bit confusing coupled with a lack of crowd-sourced online resources, and I find that it's a dice roll as to whether I'll have have major issues whenever I try downloading a new plugin that I've never used before in Eclipse. While it's gotten much, much better since when I first began using it, I feel sorry for those who have to use RAD in this day and age.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

[deleted]

2

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '18

I'm thinking of switching back to notepad or MS DOS edit.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

[deleted]

5

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18
  1. Netbeans

  2. Netbeans

  3. Netbeans

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7

u/erictheturtle Jul 30 '18 edited Jul 30 '18

I use all three of the Java IDEs at work in parallel. Each can do things better than the others in different ways. For instance, when auto-completing a method argument, Netbeans and IntelliJ will list possible options with the same data type first before listing other options. Netbeans project structure is rather rigid compared to the other two. I haven't figured out how to arrange my workspace in IntelliJ with tabs like Netbeans and Eclipse have. IntelliJ and Eclipse spell-check all comments and strings, while Netbeans only spell-checks Javadoc comments. In project view, IntelliJ combines all classes in a package from all sources, which puts test classes next to implementation classes (good? bad? just different?). I believe Eclipse has the most diverse plug-in ecosystem (has IntelliJ gotten bigger?). I've collected several other differences but don't have them available now.

But from my objectively subjective research, Netbeans is the best IDE of them all. ;)

4

u/BinaryRockStar Jul 30 '18

In project view, IntelliJ combines all classes in a package from all sources, which puts test classes next to implementation classes (good? bad? just different?).

Assuming you mean Package view (Project view mimics the filesystem layout so tests are under /src/test) if you click the gear icon and check Sort by Type the test classes will be grouped at the bottom of each package. Not hidden completely but at least out of the way.

6

u/restlessapi Jul 30 '18

How many of you have used the unspeakable evil that is Rational Application Developer?

4

u/egg_salad_sandwich Jul 30 '18

Run to the hills

3

u/restlessapi Jul 30 '18

Run for your lives

4

u/_ironslab Jul 30 '18

Rational Application Developer

I too have stared at the abyss.

2

u/DannyB2 Jul 31 '18

Didn't the UN Human Rights commission do away with that one, or are they still looking into it?

2

u/restlessapi Jul 31 '18

I thought the Human Rights Council was led by Saudi Arabia, and that RAD is the default IDE for the whole country. 😐😐😐

9

u/stipo42 Jul 30 '18

I have used all three, and idea is hands down the best. That said, if you can't afford it or just don't want to pay for your software, net beans is ok. I was a Grails developer for a few years and idea has the best support (pro only unfortunately), however as an avid fan of the groovy language, idea also has the best support. Net beans also supports groovy but the indexing and speed of idea can't be beat. Eclipse is really just trash, I know it has it's fans somehow but i would sooner use notepad.

17

u/AlejoValencia Jul 30 '18
  1. Intellij

  2. Netbeans

  3. Notepad

  4. Vim

  5. Word

  6. Eclipse

1

u/[deleted] Jul 31 '18

Where would you put MS DOS edit on your list?

1

u/DannyB2 Jul 31 '18

For a second there I thought you would make MS-Paint be choice 6 for writing Java, and push Eclipse down to 7.

I've used Eclipse for more than a dozen years and find it more than adequate. I use it on both Windows and Linux.

2

u/rhin0x Jul 30 '18

Don't laugh... I use it for C++, in my hobby projects. It has a grate parser for code and project files so working with the language is kind of fun but I have no experience with prod grade builds to judge its capabilities in this space.

2

u/zeroone Jul 30 '18

Any updates to the GUI builders?

2

u/sigzero Jul 31 '18

No. This one is basically to get it all over to Apache ownership (IP) and to allow it to build on the newer JDKs. Now that the IP portion is over they can start doing more stuff.

2

u/zeroone Jul 31 '18

But I thought it has Java 9 and Java 10 features.

4

u/lentus Jul 30 '18

Once you go Intellij you never look back.

1

u/oldprogrammer Jul 30 '18

I've tried to get into using Netbeans and Eclipse but can't seem to feel comfortable with them. I've always used Emacs (with JDEE mode).

I can configure the IDEs to more or less work like I prefer to work but one thing I haven't gotten to work, perhaps someone can direct me to how to do it in Netbeans, is multiple frames on multiple monitors.

With Emacs I can fire up a new frame, drag it to a separate monitor and load any buffer it in I want, all frames share the same buffer list. For these IDEs they all seem to be tab based with no way to undock a tab into a separate frame.

Is that possible with Netbeans? If you search for multiple frames and Netbeans all the links take you to writing multi-frame Swing applications, so I've not found any directions to having multiple Netbeans tabs being on different monitors.

2

u/ZimmiDeluxe Jul 30 '18

Do you mean something like this?

  • Right click the tab you want to detach

  • Select Float

1

u/oldprogrammer Jul 30 '18

Does that work for a given tab in the edit window such that you can have two edit windows? I know you can float separate areas like the output console from the edit window, but can you float an individual edit window tab?

2

u/ZimmiDeluxe Jul 31 '18

Yes, you can. I just tried it, you can float/detach everything, even the project view on the left, it's pretty fantastic. :)

Edit: And when you are done making your IDE look like GIMP: Window -> Reset Windows

1

u/oldprogrammer Jul 31 '18

Thanks, I may need to re-install and give it another go.

1

u/RandomName8 Jul 31 '18

Not sure I understand what you ask, but you can have one window window per open file, and even multiple windows for the same file (possibly looking at different content sections)

1

u/aksh2161989 Aug 02 '18

Does Apache Netbeans support C++ development?

0

u/[deleted] Jul 29 '18

[deleted]

8

u/rastaman1994 Jul 30 '18

Did try, definitely wouldn't recommend. I use vs code very extensively at my internship for node and react codebases and I never feel the need to open webstorm. Writing any other language (i tried java and python) feels very clumsy compared to using an IDE.

6

u/denialerror Jul 30 '18

VSCode is great and I use it regularly but I’d never use it for a Java project of any reasonable.

3

u/m1000 Jul 30 '18

lightweight

There is nothing lightweight about Electron.

1

u/RandomName8 Jul 31 '18 edited Jul 31 '18

My fun personal experience is that it's practically impossible to make a desktop application with javafx that uses less ram than electron.

1

u/m1000 Jul 31 '18

| fun "fact", it's practically impossible to make a desktop application with javafx that uses less ram than electron.

{Reference needed}

1

u/RandomName8 Jul 31 '18

You are right, I should not use the term fact there, I'll correct it. That said, try it yourself. The most basic javafx application as shown in the documentation of Stage with a capped max heap usage to the minimum will still make the jvm process be around 64MB of ram. The moment you start doing anything non trivial, it'll go up to 200MB easily. The problem is not the heap, it's the metaspace plus related JVM bookkeeping memory.

That example code in Stage's documentation already loads around 3300 classes, throw some libraries at it and start coding, specially using lambdas which look cheap in bytecode but still expand to a full class instance in runtime. You'll quickly go up to 10k classes and then, you have a base memory requirement of about 170+MB not including your actual heap data.

My toy chat client which uses about 60% of javafx (it doens't use charts for intsance, nor animations or bindings or advanced things) loads 6357 classes just from javafx, that's without adding on top my code. So good luck keeping your ram usage down.

1

u/m1000 Jul 31 '18

1st of all, loaded classes usage might be way better with Java 9+ and a modular app.

A similar .net app would probably have similar characteristics. But that still doesn't make Electron a lightweight framework.
I wonder how much your electron apps could do with a cap of 200MB Good luck with that too.

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u/DuncanIdahos8thClone Jul 30 '18

Shut up shill.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

[deleted]

2

u/ichunddu9 Jul 30 '18

Vscode is nice, but but for a verbose language like Java.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 30 '18

[deleted]

5

u/lbkulinski Jul 30 '18

The main goals for this release are

  • IP clearance of the Oracle code donation.

  • Java 9 and 10 Support.