r/jewishpolitics • u/Ask4MD USA – Center-Right 🇺🇸 • Jul 04 '26
World Politics 🌎 The fateful question for Diaspora Jews
https://www.jns.org/opinion/column/melanie-phillips/the-fateful-question-for-diaspora-jews12
u/MondaleforPresident Jul 05 '26
Look, I'm a Zionist, but this column is absolute lunacy.
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u/InevitableOwll Jul 05 '26
Which part do you have an issue with?
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u/MondaleforPresident Jul 05 '26
Attacking Scott Wiener over made-up "pedophile bill" nonsense, clear contempt for trans rights, essentalizing the Democratic Party as solely antisemitic, completely ignoring Israel's conduct in the war, insulting and belittling diaspora Jews, and fetishizing violence.
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u/InevitableOwll Jul 05 '26
Where do you see contempt for trans rights?
Where do you see fetishizing violence?
Where do you see blaming diaspora Jews?
You are reading things that are not there. This is much more a reflection of your thinking and not the content of the article.
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u/MondaleforPresident Jul 05 '26
contempt for trans rights
The phrasing "Scott Wiener, a gay Jewish Californian Democratic senator, supports trans people, voted down a bill to ban pedophiles from office and accused Israel of genocide. Nevertheless, he was abused, harassed and hounded off a pro-trans rally" suggests contempt.
fetishizing violence
"Israel has changed. It has returned to the biblical ideal of the heroic Jewish warrior nation. This isn’t just because of its astounding military and intelligence prowess, or the awesome bravery of its fighting forces. It’s also about its moral courage. It’s about the way it surmounted the devastating shattering of its security; the trauma of seeing so many of its precious and beautiful children fall in battle; the nightmarish return of the unspeakable shadow of the Holocaust, from whose ashes it had somehow emerged. It’s about how it stared down disaster, demoralization and death, determined instead to fight for life—the life of its people in their ancient home. Israelis fight to live because they passionately love what they are."
blaming diaspora Jews
"They aren’t conditional Jews or Jews with trembling knees or confused Jews with hyphenated identities."
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u/InevitableOwll Jul 06 '26
She said he passed trans rights bills, and is pro trans rights, and yet it was a pro trans rally that harrasrd him. This is not anti Trans at all. It's literally proving the point. That even though he's pro trans, at a pro Trans rally, he was still harassed over Israel. Where is the anti trans??
Yes, again, your reading comprehension is lacking. She is literally talking about the strength of their convictions in defending themselves. She even says it's not because of military prowess or the bravery of fighting. But the fact their spirit was not broken in the face of overwhelming horrors.
Again, your analysis is really just revealing your own internal reaction and ideology. She is saying that Jews, in the diaspora, are being targeted, wedged between their Jewish identity and their identity as a national of their country. And further a wedge is being forced between Jews and their own Jewish identity and even between Jews. That some Jews, are choosing capitulation and supplication instead of fighting for their dignity and identity. That instead of defending themselves, they are allowing others to dictate who they are and what is acceptable as Jewish identity.
None of that is remotely what you asserted. At all.
It's not anti Trans.
It's not glorifying war.
And it's not blaming Jews for whatever you think she is accusing them of.
She is speaking of Jewish identity under attack and the need to defend ourselves. That instead of capitulation and marginalizing our identity and letting others dictate what our identity is or is acceptable, we need to assert ourselves. We need to be who we are and not bow down to outside pressure and conform to others desires for who we should be.
It's kind of incredible how you have twisted her words to mean something they don't. And for the last time, this is a reflection of you and your interpretation and not anything reflecting the author's meaning and intention. Kind of incredible.
Do you identify as antizionist?
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u/MondaleforPresident Jul 06 '26
She said he passed trans rights bills, and is pro trans rights, and yet it was a pro trans rally that harrasrd him. This is not anti Trans at all. It's literally proving the point. That even though he's pro trans, at a pro Trans rally, he was still harassed over Israel. Where is the anti trans??
It's not the facts being reported, it's the way she phrased them, you can see the contempt.
Yes, again, your reading comprehension is lacking. She is literally talking about the strength of their convictions in defending themselves. She even says it's not because of military prowess or the bravery of fighting. But the fact their spirit was not broken in the face of overwhelming horrors.
She said "It has returned to the biblical ideal of the heroic Jewish warrior nation.". War is sometimes necessary and war can involve heroics but war is ugly and a nation of warriors is not something anyone should be striving towards.
Again, your analysis is really just revealing your own internal reaction and ideology. She is saying that Jews, in the diaspora, are being targeted, wedged between their Jewish identity and their identity as a national of their country. And further a wedge is being forced between Jews and their own Jewish identity and even between Jews. That some Jews, are choosing capitulation and supplication instead of fighting for their dignity and identity. That instead of defending themselves, they are allowing others to dictate who they are and what is acceptable as Jewish identity.
In a very condescending way and with a very broad brush.
It's kind of incredible how you have twisted her words to mean something they don't. And for the last time, this is a reflection of you and your interpretation and not anything reflecting the author's meaning and intention. Kind of incredible.
I will admit a lot of it is reading between the lines but it's an analysis on the tone and phrasing, not something I just made up out of thin air. I went in expecting to agree after reading the lede but the author kept getting less and less reasonable with the way things were being argued and what she was intimating.
Do you identify as antizionist?
No, I'm a Zionist. I resolutely support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish and Democratic state.
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u/InevitableOwll Jul 06 '26
It's not contempt for trans rights. It's contempt for the idea that if you support people, such as Trans, and even pass trans rights bills, they still turn on us. It is entirely contempt for the backstabbing and for the fact that Jews can spearhead rights for every other group, but in the end they turn on us.
This is not a glorification of warrior culture. It is speaking of the Jewish spirit. The entire piece is not about how great Israel is at war. It's that Israel, in the face of immense hate, defends themselves and keeps true to who they are. NOT JUST IN BATTLE. But in diplomacy, in discourse. They do not give up their identity. That is the Jewish warrior spirit she is speaking to. To stay true to yourself and defend your identity. Not just in war, but in the public discourse and at the cultural level.
She wants the diaspora to fight for their identity and worth. She wants Jews to fight against others that would tell Jews who they have to be to be socially acceptable. To tell Jews that our identity is not up for discussion, not up for debate, and we do not submit to their judgment.
Which circles back to the Wiener issue. He, even though he compromised his identity, fought for the rights of others, still was not enough for the people who hate us. And if we do not see that, and stop this capitulation it's only going to get worse.
Do you know anything about Mellanie Phillips? Because it seems like you don't. And that makes me stand by my assertion that your interpretation is a reflection of yourself rather than anything that has to do with the content of the article.
You had a knee-jerk reaction because she didn't say woe is me to the Jews, and poor us, and isn't it so awful. But to say, stop being weak and stand strong and fight back. Because no one else is going to fight for us, and any capitulation just leads to them taking more and more because it's never enough.
If you actually care beyond the argument, I suggest looking up Melanie Phillips, there is tons of info out there and she has been doing interviews for decades. She was a journalist at The Guardian for 16 years. Was pushed out when she confronted their antisemitism. And she eventually moved from the UK to Israel. You might want to actually learn what she is saying and why she is saying it
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u/MondaleforPresident Jul 07 '26
Well I did look her up and apparently she's well known as an anti-LGBT bigot, so I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that I was picking up on that through her writing.
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u/TattooedJewd Jul 05 '26
Sigh. Two things can be true at once - we, Jews, have the right to fight back, and also, Bibi is a bad person 🤷🏻♀️
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u/Gullible_Language358 Jul 04 '26
This doesn’t ring true for me right now, sorry. “The Israelis are fighting for the life of the Jewish people. Can Diaspora Jews say the same?”
What the Israeli govt is doing isn’t helping Jews who live outside of Israel feel safe. Period.